Quote from: HaffrungSo they're supposed to listen to the loudest, crankiest online posters and steer the game hither and yon to head off complaints? If they're six months into development (or whatever it is), then the time for market consultation is over. They probably had their own way of gathering information, and now it's finished. It would be foolish of WotC to be swayed by the hysterics of internet discussion boards, especially when the loudest people are almost certainly going to be the ones who hate the idea of 4E in the first place. I mean, should WotC start a thread on Dragonsfoot to see what those guys want to see in 4E?

So the upcoming playtest is not consulting the market or gathering information?  And to think Mr. Noonan was being a douchebag I have to hate 4e?  And exactly what would be the harm in asking Dragonsfoot what they would like in 4e?

To clarify, nothing that some RPG company dude might say about an RPG could ever possibly offend me. I really, truly don't care.

I'm just puzzled by the density of people who deliberately dole out little tidbits of 4E info to keep the excitement at a high pitch... and who then go on to tell their excited readers that said excitement won't count in the scheme of things.

Fair enough, but in that case I recommend that henceforth the marketing strategy until May '08 be to STFU.

From here,
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206483&page=1&pp=40

Quote from: WotC_DaveReally? You should read the whole blog entry. I've been ridiculously happy all day.

As for the patronizing thing, well, that wasn't my intent. And it's embarrassing when you write for a living and can't get your point across properly. Sorry about that.

Lemme try again: The game is coming out in May. Until then, your reactions to it are your own. They don't change the inevitable release of the game. It might not be worth it to get completely amped up--positively or negatively--because May is a long ways off. Telling us what's working/not working at your table right now is a good idea. We're still working on the game, after all.

There. That's what I was trying to say...insofar as I'm able to articulate it.

--Dave.

Apologizing- on the internet??!!!  Who the fuck does that? What an asshole!

AH-HAH! Caught in the web of his own contradictions!

He's dead to me now.

Quote from: AosApologizing- on the internet??!!!  Who the fuck does that? What an asshole!

HOW DARE HE!! :aaa:

Since it was brought up in this thread's OP, and there was a request to do so, I figured I let ya'll know.  It's a done deal - www.d20haven.com is up and running.

I don't think Wizards give a rats-ass about their previous customers. They've already got YOUR money. This is just a little thing for their Future customers (i.e. the ones who are going to buy 4E) to rally behind.

Not bad business sense. That don't want to make the people that aren't buying their stuff happy.

Quote from: HaffrungSo they're supposed to listen to the loudest, crankiest online posters and steer the game hither and yon to head off complaints?

From what I've seen, the new direction for 4th ed seems to be coming from their own gaming clique, and has little to do with any feedback from outside. If they haven't taken on many of the crtiticisms so far, its worth starting to listen now before its too late.

Quote from: AosFrom here,
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206483&page=1&pp=40



Apologizing- on the internet??!!!  Who the fuck does that? What an asshole!

Good response from him. Shouldn't have got into that pickle in the first place though.

Piss poor phrasing on Noonan's part, I think. Mind you I don't think anything other than stony silence regarding internet reactions would be appropriate, it's just leaves them wide open to yet more hysteria and abuse.

An officer at Wizards of the Coast needs to take Mr. Noonan aside and remind him that, regardless of where he is or whom he is with, at all times he represents Wizards of the Coast and must avoid actions that would damage the company's prestige and good name.  If this is unacceptable to him, then his interests are no longer compatible with the company's interests and it would be satisfactory to the company that Mr. Noonan seek gainful employment elsewhere.  You are always on duty in this life, like it or (as is so often the case) not.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerAn officer at Wizards of the Coast needs to take Mr. Noonan aside and remind him that, regardless of where he is or whom he is with, at all times he represents Wizards of the Coast and must avoid actions that would damage the company's prestige and good name.  If this is unacceptable to him, then his interests are no longer compatible with the company's interests and it would be satisfactory to the company that Mr. Noonan seek gainful employment elsewhere.  You are always on duty in this life, like it or (as is so often the case) not.

I hate it when my hobbies become a job and need to be taken seriously.   I don't even take work that seriously.

Quote from: CabFrom what I've seen, the new direction for 4th ed seems to be coming from their own gaming clique, and has little to do with any feedback from outside.

That doesn't even make sense. Their clique? Mike Mearls is not some internal suit who rose to the position. He's been brought to WotC because he's been extremely productive as a freelancer and seems to have popular favor as much with 3rd party companies (who employed him repeatedly) as with the many fans. What do you call that, if not listening to feedback from the outside?

Feedback has been coming for years. WotC have integrated bits from "outside", such as action points. They've checked out what was happening with 3rd party product (which is, almost nothing interesting but that's just my opinion) and integrated a few bits here and there, plus did their own experimentations in various D20 projects such as Modern, Star Wars, CoC, etc...

Seems like they'll take the bits they think appeal to people, will remove bits that have been extremely controversial (like the famed AoOs) and will make a few extra changes as well, as any decent new edition should.

Quote from: CabIf they haven't taken on many of the crtiticisms so far, its worth starting to listen now before its too late.

What criticisms? What exactly have they not been listening to? Some guy who wants Half Dragon/half hamster to be a core race?

Quote from: GunslingerI hate it when my hobbies become a job and need to be taken seriously.   I don't even take work that seriously.

All part of the corporate merry-go-round, unfortunately.

If we were to really hear what some of the Wizards honchos thought about the subject then I'm fairly certain the internet would go supernova.

It can be a pretty tough job doing what they do at a time like this, but that's what they signed on for. I've seen one-man outfits with more circumspection than Noonan.

At least he aplogised and clarified, although I doubt it'll do much good. The detractors already have their fat, juicy quote they can trundle out whenever the mood strikes. That's why it was such a stupid, myopic move on his part. This shit sticks.

Quote from: Consonant DudeThat doesn't even make sense. Their clique? Mike Mearls is not some internal suit who rose to the position. He's been brought to WotC because he's been extremely productive as a freelancer and seems to have popular favor as much with 3rd party companies (who employed him repeatedly) as with the many fans. What do you call that, if not listening to feedback from the outside?

Have you listene to the presentation they gave or read what they've written? Lots of info about 'this is how we've been playing it, we think you'll be excited'.

Suddenly, paying attention to what people have said as if that might be an indication of what they mean seems to be controversial.