Nah, if you read the rest of the thread, Balbinus (and probably others) argue convincingly that the game does have real demons (mostly). The problem (as described in the thread) is that their presence has ramifications which subvert other elements of the game.

A couple points on DitV (I'm no expert, so I could be off-base, but I have played the game a few times):

* It's totally okay to play a game where the supernatural dial is turned up high, and demons ARE real. The last game I played was like this. The villain (sort of) of the town actually had supernatural powers. I don't think long-time DitV players prefer this kind of game, but it works fine.

* The whole thing about "Dogs can't be wrong" is central to the game. If we're playing and I say that a woman CAN be ordained into the faith, then that is correct, because I am a Dog. My word is law on theological matters.

More importantly, outside the fiction, around the table, the GM isn't gonna come down on you and say "No, that's not how it works". Matters of the faith are left deliberately vague for that reason. There is no God outside what the players think about it.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Elliot.

Quote from: jibbajibba;421187Whilst Koltar's delivery is a little lame he does represent an element of the RP hobby.

Rather like the Tea party, with whom I suspect he identifies strongly, Koltar yearns for a simpler time when things were clear and there was a lot less confusion.

Now the risk of this of course is that the time that Koltar harks back to never really existed, there were always multiple strands in RPGs and completing ideas and memes. By fixating on his own game experience at a point in time as a halycon age,  he ignores all the other stuff that was going on in the hobby at that time. In addtion by ignoring these influcences there is little room for improvement or innovation.

I haven't read the rest of this discussion but man does this sound like a dude I work with.

The guy reacts with shock and horror to almost EVERYTHING in modern RPGs.  The price, the format, the rules.  Literally everything after 1982 seems to be shit to him.

Of course this dude also doesn't have cable TV and wont let his son have videogames and most of his political and social views seems more appropriate for 1910 than 2010.  

He sort of sounds like a less snobby but more crazy James Mali.

(His only gaming is with his son and it involves scanned copies of Metagaming minigames he paid someone to scan and print, or did himself at a library.  No computer either.)

I'm not saying 4e is great or even good.  (Its not, especially as an RPG.  Essentials is a pretty fun Braunstein/Final Fantasy Tactics sort of game though.)

But for Koltar to rage out about it?

It may make more sense if he wasn't a GURPS fan which is basically 4e for Aspies.  You know that game with all the hexes and powers and highly detailed rules for nearly every second in a combat round and more detail than some games of Advanced Squad Leader?

(I've got GURPS Ogre.  OH GOD THE NUMBERS.  THEY MELT MY BRAIN.)

Can't say much about the Storygames bit.  Mainly since they don't matter, nobody talks about them in the real world, and nobody besides Pundit in some strange form of Internet Performance Art (because he can't be that fucking stupid in real life) cares about or is worried by them.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;421475The guy reacts with shock and horror to almost EVERYTHING in modern RPGs.  The price, the format, the rules.  Literally everything after 1982 seems to be shit to him.

You work with dungeondelver?

Quote from: Captain Rufus;421475(His only gaming is with his son and it involves scanned copies of Metagaming minigames he paid someone to scan and print, or did himself at a library.  No computer either.)

:eek:

Quote from: Captain Rufus;421475Can't say much about the Storygames bit.  Mainly since they don't matter, nobody talks about them in the real world, and nobody besides Pundit in some strange form of Internet Performance Art (because he can't be that fucking stupid in real life) cares about or is worried by them.

That's my opinion as well. Storygames are such a non-issue that I sometimes fear for the future of the Pundit's online persona/performance. Thankfully, between WotC's constant fuckups and the OSR's mixed messages, Pundy has acquired new, easy targets to his expanding portfolio of vocal, pointless hatred.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;421483You work with dungeondelver?

:rotfl:

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;421483You work with dungeondelver?

Heh.  Does Dungeondelver work two jobs because he believes women should be at home raising kids?  Does he follow the Norse religion?  Does he actually think the military/political situation of the Starship Troopers novel is actually a good idea?  Does he believe Obama is a secret Muslim plant to bring TEH EVIL SOCIALISM to America?

Is he also probably racist?

No.  I don't think he is.  And I am sure DD is happy about that.

(No wonder so many people in my state are antisocial.  Less likely to run into the terrible human beings I seem to know. )

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;421318Sure. Amazing how fast this attitude goes away when age catches up with you.

Anyway, it's not the years, it's the attitude.

When I was younger, I agreed with you.   As a teen, I thought Logan's Run was crazy.   But now over 40, I am sure the world would be a far better, more interesting place if you blasted anyone over 30.  

If age has taught me anything, its that there is no wisdom bonus.   Everyone who could find his own ass with both hands at 25, keeps being able to do so.  The rest...not so much.

Quote from: Spinachcat;421498If age has taught me anything, its that there is no wisdom bonus.   Everyone who could find his own ass with both hands at 25, keeps being able to do so.  The rest...not so much.

This is so true. :hatsoff:

Quote from: Spinachcat;421498When I was younger, I agreed with you.   As a teen, I thought Logan's Run was crazy.   But now over 40, I am sure the world would be a far better, more interesting place if you blasted anyone over 30.

Huh. Well, I'm 40 myself and think that's bullshit, but to each his own, certainly.

I like some recent games, but my heart's not far from Koltar's on this. I don't care if other people like mmorgs, but I don't have much use for them. I don't care too much about story games. I don't mind being old-fashioned and curmudgeonly.

The hate of the dungeon delver is strong with this thread.

Quote from: Technomancer;421204Geez, can we lay off the nerdrage already?  

1. Don't play games you don't enjoy
2. Don't shit on games someone else enjoys

Just follow these two simple rules and we'll all get along.

*highfive*

That's all I've been tryin' to say.

I don't like 4e, for instance. I admit, I've never played it, but I have read it...I'm sure as Hell not going to run around starting threads about how bad it is.

I don't like GURPS, apply the above to GURPS, except I have played and ran it.

Instead of spending energy on tearing down stuff you don't like, spend it building up the stuff you do.

Anyway, that's what I try to do, but whichever.

Quote from: Benoist;421505The hate of the dungeon delver is strong with this thread.

I don't hate dungeondelver. :hatsoff:

Quote from: Cole;421270As that thread taught us all so well, the real bully here is Bruce Wayne.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;421519

EID?

The Islamic Holiday ?


- Ed C.