Here's the transcript:

Quote[WizO_Unicorn] Welcome everyone to the Star Wars Saga Edition chat with Gary Sarli (our own WizO the Hutt) and Rodney Thompson!

WizO_Unicorn raps again for order.

[WizO_Unicorn] We will be using protocol for this chat.
I will be asking Gary and Rodney for some opening remarks first. When I open it for questions, put a ? to screen if you have a question, or a ! if you have a comment.
I will call on you in order. Please have your question pretyped and ready to hit send.
Okay, Gary? Can you give us some opening remarks?

[WizO_the_Hutt] In March of 2007, Wizards of the Coast plans to relaunch its Star Wars Roleplaying Game line with a 288-page revised core rulebook, referred to as the "Saga Edition" because it includes material from the entire Star Wars saga, including all six Star Wars films.
The Star Wars Roleplaying Game: Saga Edition(tm) is written by Christopher Perkins, Owen K.C. Stephens, and Rodney Thompson, developed by me (Gary M. Sarli) and Andy Collins, and art directed by Paul Hebron.
The Star Wars Roleplaying Game: Saga Edition presents a thorough revision of the existing rules, but it remains a d20 game. The overarching goal is to make the game easier to run while improving the overall play experience.
At 288 pages, the Saga Edition rulebook is slimmer than previous editions, thanks in large part to the more streamlined and elegant rules system.
The new rulebook includes Episode III content and places greater emphasis on the use of Star Wars miniatures and battle maps as play aids for your game.
For example, folded into the back of the book is a double-sided battle map, similar to the battle maps that have appeared previously in Star Wars Miniatures Game products and the Ultimate Missions(tm) series of books.
Alright, that should give all of you a little background on Saga Edition, so now let's go to the Q&A!

[WizO_Unicorn] Okay, let the questions begin!


[momirfarooq] The old Vitality/Wound system was, in my opinion, absolutely brilliant- GM's could throw a lot of firepower at PC's without having to worry about them dying, yet it kept the players on edge by making death a distinct possibility.
Please, please, PLEASE tell me you're not going to throw it away!

[WizO_the_Hutt] We're throwing it away. :-)

[momirfarooq] NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

[RodneyThompson] Way to break the news softly, Gary.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Seriously, the VP/WP system has far too many quirks, and it doesn't do what it was meant to do -- for example, both VP and HP measure the same thing (your ability to survive an attack, not to *absorb* it)

[RodneyThompson] There's a lot of merits and drawbacks to the VP/WP system, but ultimately HP models the movies better, which I think we all agreed on while designing the game.

[WizO_the_Hutt] so the problem, then, is the introduction of the "straight to WP" mechanic for critical hits that makes PCs too fragile in the long term -- I did a statistical analysis that concluded that a PC has somewhere around a 30% chance to be killed -- literally "one-shotted" -- at some time before reaching 20th level and when I asked other players about this, almost everyone said, "Well, sure, but we have a house rule for that."
If *everyone* uses a house rule, then there's something wrong with the rule.

[RodneyThompson] Let's face it, while gritty realism works for a lot of games, a stormtrooper shouldn't really be able to take out Darth Vader with a critical hit.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Exactly.

[RodneyThompson] Nevermind that the stormtrooper is probably looking at a court martial at the very least for trying.

[WizO_the_Hutt] There's something to be said for "Realism" -- but, really, realism is extremely subjective in a game.
Hit points, on the other hand, are abstract -- just like vitality points -- and they don't have the same "instant death" mechanic. Sure, you CAN die instantly, but it's not quite so easy.
Now, to give you a little reassurance, the new system includes not just hit points, but also a "condition track" that unifies all the conditions in the old game (stunned, dazed, etc.) and when you take a really good hit, you can get pushed up that condition scale, simulating a solid hit that actually slows you down a bit.
(in contrast, the "fatigued" condition usually only came into play with VP/WP at the end of the fight)
So, our experience thus far has been that the new system provides a more textured combat with a lot more flavor and I think that about sums it up, unless Rodney has anything else to add.

[RodneyThompson] Nope, go ahead.


[GhengisSka] My question is back on the HP system, before it modeled the chumps (stormies well) how will the "grunts" be run with hit poins to model this?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Much better than in VP/WP, actually.

[gstommylee] Since from gencon there will be a new force system are you guys able at this moment to mention anything more about it?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Ok ... let me think about what I can say ;-)
First, we're putting an INSANE amount of work into the Force system to make sure that it can do everything we've seen it do in the Star Wars universe.
Rodney can attest to the length of the document I just sent out last week for final approval.

[RodneyThompson] I think it's worth mentioning that the Force actually breaks down into multiple mechanics, technically. The Force is also a pretty integral part of character creation system too.

[WizO_the_Hutt] There are two primary ways that a character will use the Force ...
First, through the aptly-named "Use the Force" skill.

And yeah, we just did a major review of the Force chapter, and, well, it was several days worth of eye strain and headaches.

[WizO_the_Hutt] This skill lets you do a lot of basic Force use that seems to be common to all Force-users, even those who have received no training.
Second, there are "Force powers" that cover more powerful (but also more specific) things that we see Force users do on screen.
Use the Force is also used to activate Force powers.
In addition to that, there are some other things you can do to customize your character for Force use -- Force talents, for example, and some prestige classes have things called Force techniques and Force secrets
(all names subject to change at the last minute).
All of these allow you to "stretch the rules" a bit so you can simulate some of the over-the-top Force use we sometimes see in Star Wars but we still manage to keep the lid on it so you don't dominate the game -- basically, you have to "recharge" when you use a Force power.

[RodneyThompson] It's also worth mentioning that we've worked hard to make sure there aren't a lot of continuity hitches between what we see can be done and what heroes and villains can do.
And I'm done on this topic.

[WizO_the_Hutt] And there are several different ways to recharge and some can even be done in the middle of a fight, but for the most part the mechanic exists to prevent it from jumping the shark, and that's it for me, too.


[Starcloud] When you say, "streamlined and elegant rules", can either of you provide us with an example other than the HP/Condition track? Say, something in the area of skills or combat?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Alright ... skills no longer have ranks.

[RodneyThompson] Hoo-boy, that cat? It's out of the bag.

[WizO_the_Hutt] I know, it sounds strange when you're used to splitting up your ranks, but it's true.
No, Chris actually said this at GenCon, I have it on tape :-P

[RodneyThompson] hehe.

[WizO_the_Hutt] However, all characters get better at all skills as they get more experienced -- for example, Yoda has been around the block, so the odds are he knows a thing or two about computers.
Alright, one last thing on this: the idea here is to make it easier to create a character and easier to level-up a character without making mistakes.
As an editor, I can't tell you how many times I've seen even the best designers make a mistake when adding skill ranks :-P so I for one am very happy with this change

[RodneyThompson] Creating higher level characters from scratch is much faster with the new skill system. I was able to whip up an 18th-level character in about 5-10 minutes.


[Screamwhip] Can you tell us a bit about how the more flexible classes have been implemented? Are there still set class abilities, menues, or what? *And how do Force Adepts gain Force Powers?

[WizO_the_Hutt] If you've played d20 Modern you'll be familiar with what we did: We're using "talents" to allow each class the maximum degree of flexibility.

[RodneyThompson] I pushed very hard for a talents system. It's similar to d20 Modern in some ways, but different in others.
I think, on the whole, each class has access to a lot more talents that are a lot more Star Warsy. Don't go into it looking for rehashes of the Strong Hero talents from Modern.

[WizO_the_Hutt] That way, a soldier who specializes in, say, brawling or martial arts can tailor himself to that, but a soldier of the same level who wants to be a sniper or a commando won't look the same.
This flexible system also let us condense the number of base classes -- we dropped the fringer, tech specialist, and force adept, and we combined the Jedi guardian and Jedi consular.
Instead of having those classes, you'll find talents that capture their flavor in other classes -- for example, there's a Fringer Talent Tree in the scout's list.

[RodneyThompson] As was said before, most of those classes class features were integrated into the other classes' talent trees.


[Kit_Toy101] What planets are the battle maps based on and are they DCI legal? For Miniatures?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Not sure if I can leak that one yet, but I'm certain they are DCI legal.

[RodneyThompson] Yeah, they definitely are.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Absoultely certain about that


[WizO_the_Hutt loses connection here temporarily]


[WizO_Sith] Will there be an RPGA campaign for the Saga Edition, will it be a revamp of Living force?

[RodneyThompson] (I don't know about Living Force, so we'll have to wait on Gary for that one).


[darthmagusiii] Can you give us a list of all the skills that have been removed and what has replaced them?

[RodneyThompson] I don't want to list them all, but for example Search, Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive have all been folded into a Perception skill that pretty much encompasses all of those. Likewise, look for Tumble and Escape Artist to fold into Acrobatics. Since a lot of this is subject to change, I don't want to get into too many specifics, but you get the idea.


[Baron_Sargon] So, as for the skills, that means either you have the skill or you don't? But what I really wanted to ask is if there is room to play a dark jedi under the new system? Also, I take it that the new rules make all the manuals null-and-void?

[RodneyThompson] Wow, three questions.

[Baron_Sargon] What can I say, I love SW and love this game, just wish I could play it more.

[RodneyThompson] 1) Basically, yes, but as before some skills can be used untrained, and there are some ways (via talents and feats) to increase your skill bonuses. Just don't look for skill points anymore, because they're gone.
Also, one thing we've done is that some skills have uses that can be done untrained, while that same skill might have other uses that require training.
2) Yes, you can play a Dark Jedi. Built into the core rules.
3) Not null and void, but some conversion will be required.


[AmericanYeti] Will Defense be scaled better against BAB? It seems like characters beat the hell out of each other rather regularly while they don't really block anything... So I guess my real question is: Will Hit Points be scaled better against Defense?

[RodneyThompson] I think you'll find that Defense and BAB will scale much more evenly than they necessarily were before.
There have been some changes to the way Defense works, which I won't go into too much because I don't know how much I can say. However, you'll find hit points probably won't be eaten through as quickly, as some attacks will now move you along a condition track rather than doing damage.


[gigerstreak] Have the Force Ghost and Darkside Spirit been adjusted for the Saga Edition? There was some discussion previously on the revised system not allowing them to interact with the environment like they did in the EU books.

[RodneyThompson] Actually, we (as of right now) include mechanics for both light and dark versions of Force spirits, but it's done somewhat differently from before and is tied into an entirely new mechanic. However, right now, the game is designed for players that become spirits to be taken over as GM characters.
Though I'd love to do some "Ghostwalk"-like rules for a future book.

[WizO_the_Hutt regains connection]


[ATT_Turan] Is there thought being put into balancing starship combat so that larger ships properly outpower smaller ones and stand up to each other better, and is there any direct corrolary to the Starship Battles ruleset as there is to the SW Minis?

[RodneyThompson] As for starship balance, we've certainly tried to make sure and correct some of the starship imbalance from before. The mechanics of starship combat have been changed slightly, of course, but they won't match up one-for-one with the Starship Battles rules.
As of now, it should be easier to jump between character and starship combat without disrupting the flow of the game.
And it's also going to be a LOT easier to mix ground vehicles and starships, should you wish to do so.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Ooh, can I add something on the starships?

[RodneyThompson] Knock yourself out, ace.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Alright -- when I was doing development on that chapter, I had the benefit of getting an advance copy of the Starship Battles rules (which are going to ROCK, by the way) so i made sure that some basic things match up -- using the same size of grid, keeping starships in the same scale, putting movement and ranges in the same ballpark, and so forth.
However, one thing to keep in mind is that Starship Battles is meant for massive engagements between thousands or tens of thousands of combatants on each side -- in other words, it's basically "mass combat",

[RodneyThompson] Looks like I need to move out of the asteroid field so I can send a clear transmission.

[WizO_the_Hutt] but the vehicle and starship rules in Saga are still centered on individual PCs.
Thus, the two won't match up 100%, but I'm confident that you could use Starship Battles to simulate the "background" of a big battle while using the RPG rules to run the "foreground," moving pretty seamlessly between them. (as an aside, you can do this with the Star Wars Minis [characters and ground vehicles] too)


[Ardent] Can you shed some light -- given the switch to the HP system and the scaling 'character functionality' previously discussed -- how armor will play into the game now? Specifically, will it be elevated from its current status as an afterthought (barring house rules)?

[RodneyThompson] I'll let Gary handle this one.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Personally, I think armor will have a better place in the rules. Your average character -- say, a scoundrel -- will still not want to wear armor, and even a soldier who specializes in being light and fast won't want it, but if you want to be a "tank," then armor will be a viable part of your character concept.
We have some talents that are specifically designed to make armor more useful to someone who wants to specialize in it -- e.g. the Fetts -- while still leaving it not too attractive for someone who doesn't -- e.g. everyone else.
Oh, one final point:

[RodneyThompson] I modeled the Imperial Knights from the new Legacy comics very well this weekend for my own purposes, even using armor. Not every Jedi will want to go that route.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Armor is providing a bonus to your defense in these rules -- HOWEVER, most armor also makes you a little harder to "hurt" when taking damage, so you won't go up on the condition scale quite so easily.

[RodneyThompson] It dulls otherwise debilitating attacks, in other words.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Exactly.


[Hayabusa] As we all know, Starships of the Galaxy is difficult to find and there are several ships that appear only in that sourcebook. What kind of ships can we expect to see in Saga Edition and how easy or difficult will the conversion process be?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Unfortunately, we don't have room to put even a big chunk of SotG in this book.

[RodneyThompson] Mostly new Gungan-designed starships, in the core rulebook. They're very clumsy.

[WizO_the_Hutt] lol

[RodneyThompson] We have tried to hit all the big ones and cover the movies well.

[WizO_the_Hutt] However, I am going to create a conversion document that will make conversion relatively simple.
Most ships should be convertable within 5-10 minutes, I'd say.


[stsparks72] Will the different Era's be handled in the same way, especially when it comes to Jedi in the Rebellion Era? Also, is there anything Gary can add on the Living Force or RPGA?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Yes, Jedi in the Rebellion Era will still be a bit rare, but i don't think we specifically preclude you from being one -- Rodney, any thoughts on this?

[RodneyThompson] Hm. Well, let's just say this: there's nothing mechanical to prevent it.
That's a total flavor issue. If you want to allow Jedi in the Rebellion Era, no mechanics can stop you from doing that.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Yeah, I think we just leave it to story and GM restrictions so you can play Order 66 survivors if you want.

[RodneyThompson] In fact, I'd argue that some of Obi-Wan's lines in Revenge of the Sith strongly suggest some Jedi DO survive into the Rebellion era.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Oh, as for Living Force, I don't have any information at this time, sorry.
A recent SW Insider actually made a very long list of Jedi *known* to have survived Order 66 -- a lot more than you'd think, actually.

[RodneyThompson] Also, on a similar note, Force users that aren't Jedi should be much, much easier to create, which could also serve your Rebellion Era Force needs.


[GhengisSka] With WP I liked the way the grunts could go down in one hit, with the HP system (D&D or d20 Mod) you can slug it out with even low level things for some time. The higher the level of the "grunt" this will go on for ever (as it does now in D&D)... how do you model the quick death of the grunts from the movie with higher level grunts with HP? Higher level in the other games can't seem to do it with out making a slug fest?

[WizO_the_Hutt] We model it by making sure that stormtroopers don't have too many hit points.
In VP/WP, right now, Stormtroopers are a little too tough -- they actually only drop (either -1 WP or knocked out) about 30-40% of the time when shot by a blaster rifle.
With the new rules, Stormtroopers have enough hit points to be intimidating to your average citizen, but they're nothing compared to heroes,thus, you'll usually (but not 100%) drop them when you shoot them with a decent weapon.

[RodneyThompson] Not only that, but you're going to see your ability to harm stormtroopers go up as you go up in level, meaning that stormies might threaten you at first level, but by, say, 10th they should be dropping like flies.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Also, we added a mechanic that allows higher-level heroes to do a little extra damage, thus making them even more likely to drop grunts and mooks with one hit.

[RodneyThompson] Yeah, what Gary said.

[WizO_the_Hutt] lol

[Tevin_Moonbane] This edition will cover all the movies, how much of the Extended universe will be covered in the Core book (one can only hope that there will be future books to expand), such as KOTOR, New jedi order, and the such.

[WizO_the_Hutt] We'll cover some of the EU, but the majority of the book is covering things we see in the movies,

[RodneyThompson] I'll admit it; I've tried to sneak in KotOR and Legacy era references here and there.

[WizO_the_Hutt] but we designed the rules with the EU in mind.

[RodneyThompson] But it's more my own fanboyism shining through in the writing.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Yes, you'll find a few things that are actually written as nods to the EU.

[Baron_Sargon] So, does that mean we can still use the books or should we expect new versions of all the existing books? I mean, I will be deploying to Iraq again when this is released and will have a hard time replacing them if that's the case.

[RodneyThompson] I don't think either of us can speak about future releases...so I've got nothing on that count.

[WizO_the_Hutt] From what I understand, we are not making new versions of old books -- no "Ultimate Ultimate Alien Anthology".

[RodneyThompson] But I think that you'll find that books will have varying degrees of compatibility.

[WizO_the_Hutt] That doesn't mean we won't cover those topics, but we're not going to just rehash all the old stuff.

[RodneyThompson] Yar.

[WizO_the_Hutt] What Rodney said -- the conversion guidelines should make most stuff usable, and frankly if your players don't see the stats you're using, you could use an RCR stat block and they'd probably never know it.

[gstommylee] Okay when it comes to lightsaber crafting is the details expaned out more from the current edition like actually building of the handle itself?

[WizO_the_Hutt] No, we keep it simple and abstract, like the rules in the RCR.

[RodneyThompson] We all like lightsaber construction rules -- you know I'm a fanboy -- but that's honestly a very low priority when it comes to putting something in the core rulebook. Besides, at a certain point, micromanaging the lightsaber is something that some players will want and some people won't be able to stand.

[WizO_the_Hutt] If we ever do something more focused on KOTOR and such, we might make some new stuff for it, but as much as fanboys like Rodney and I would like that, it just doesn't fit in the main rulebook.

[AmericanYeti] Will the lightsaber forms be more thought out? The ones in the Hero's Guide were, sorry to say, lame.
EliasWindrider, Raul_Torrin and Honey Nuggets made some good ones on the boards.

[RodneyThompson] We were actually working on those a couple of days ago...

[WizO_the_Hutt] Rodney, do you think the pages of lightsaber forms I wrote up were more thought out?

[RodneyThompson] I'll say this much: the lightsaber forms are in there, as of right now. They work, and they leave room for expansion.

[WizO_the_Hutt] I tried very hard to make every form match its background in the universe and also to make it attractive to the player and I really hope we still have enough pages to keep them in there (if not, they'll at least make it into a web enhancement.)

[RodneyThompson] As with a lot of the mechanics, we didn't want to spend all our efforts focusing on Jedi, so you'll find them workable if not super detailed. There's not a 5-page dissertation on lightsaber combat.
As an aside: I'll just say that the Hero's Guide rules went through some revisions after they left my hands in the original manuscript.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Yeah, a good mechanic is one you can sum up in one sentence, maybe two, so that's the ideal we shoot for.

[Chat officially ends here]

[RodneyThompson] If there's not another chat after this one, I don't mind staying to chat a little bit..though I can't guarantee too many more nuggets of info.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Yeah, I'm able to answer questions more than Rodney because I already know the content of some of the previews.

[AmericanYeti] Not to beat a dead horse, but generally, what kind of mechanic are the forms?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Right now, assuming we don't have any last-minute changes, they will be talents for a prestige class but we're hammering down the final details as we speak, so there's always room for things to change at the last minute, and then I send Rodney off to cook up new stat blocks.

[Hayabusa] I'd like to know about if there is anything remotely planned for either finishing up the NJO Sourcebook or doing a small blurb and one or two character stats.

[RodneyThompson] I think our sample characters cover the NJO, don't they?

[WizO_the_Hutt] we have at least a couple from NJO, i can think of three off the top of my head.

[gigerstreak] And how about Jacen... will it be possible to emulate all of his new powers?

[WizO_the_Hutt] Thus far, I believe we've managed to keep Jacen's powers possible -- however we'll almost certainly need a Legacy sourcebook devoted just to that, and i can't say any details on future sourcebooks that may or may not exist.

[Starcloud] I'm just wondering if Master Yoda will be better at slicing computers than your average computer expert...

[WizO_the_Hutt] Actually, Starcloud, your average 20th level character will be about the same as your average 1st level who specializes extensively in a skill, **roughly**.

[Baron_Sargon] So Rodney, I take it the Jedi is designed so you can custom tailor it to be a Guardian, Counselor, Sentinal, etc.?

[RodneyThompson] Baron: I don't know that I can say anything. I'll just say... Jedi are more flexible than they were in the RCR.

[coldskier0320] Anything new coming along for martial artists? Non-lightsaber melee-ers?

[AmericanYeti] Will there be a penalty for armed vs unarmed combat or, say, a stick against a lightsaber?

[WizO_the_Hutt] I don't want to get into too many specifics about the combat rules, but suffice to say we're trying to keep things abstract and simple.

[RodneyThompson] I think one of our core philosophies with the combat system is keep it sleek, keep it fast, and keep it flexible.

[GhengisSka] so no grappling.

[RodneyThompson] Wouldn't you like to know, Ghengis.

[coldskier0320] Fair enough. Thanks for answering as well as you could with that ball marked NDA chained to your ankles. :-P

[WizO_the_Hutt] Here's a fun tidbit about our philosophy: we want every action to be resolved in two rolls of the dice if at all possible, and I think we've stayed pretty darn close to that ideal.

[RodneyThompson] Oh, believe me, I'm DYING to talk about this game more.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Me too.

[Hayabusa] So. How frustrating has it been to have something vetoed by LFL? I've always wanted to know.

[RodneyThompson] Hayabusa: Very. Hero's Guide ran into several of those roadblocks.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Actually, I don't think I've had anything vetoed yet -- I've always managed to talk Leeland into it.

[RodneyThompson] Well, aren't you just the Chosen One.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Hell yeah.

[WizO_the_Hutt] See my retroactive continuity job on the Executor last week?

[RodneyThompson] Oy. I knew you had a hand in that Executor.

[WizO_the_Hutt] Yeah, we were pleased with that.

[RodneyThompson] That's the royal "we".

[WizO_the_Hutt] Alright, I gotta run -- thanks for coming out everyone.

[RodneyThompson] Yep, good talking to you guys tonight

Discuss.

RPGPundit

When I first heard about the Star Wars revision, I thought we might get a glimpse at D&D 4E, heavily based on the miniatures game. But it seems they're mostly making some minor adjustments.

Automatical skill adjustments have been seen before, first in the Unearthed Arcana supplement and later in the first revision of True20. No biggie, and works nicely with Space Opera. At higher levels, even non-techies should be able to do minor repairs.

Good riddance to the VP/WP system. Never worked as promised. I totally agree with the arguments the designers made.

I wonder what the force system will look like. I hope they don't bring it back to the unbalanced way D6 did it (Don't get me wrong, great system, but either everyone is playing Jedis or no one should).

Sigh, I've got D6 1st, D6 2nd, D20, D20 revised, and I haven't even played for quite a while. But buy it, I will.

What? The VP/WP system was one of my favorite mechanics! Of course... with ridiculously powerful energy weapons and such it might be a mess. But it worked marvelously when ported over to DnD... also switching out the "stunned for x rounds" with "nauseated for x rounds."

Well, a blaster rifle really doesn't compare to a well-aimed touch attack spell, damage-wise. Without porting the defense, too, any mage will obliterate his enemies by rolling a natural 20 (with most touch attacks, it isn't really that hard to confirm the threat).

VP/WP was rather nice in that it defined what the points actually meant. Unless hits go to constitution, you weren't hit. But you had a defense bonus in addition, why not increase that to _actually_ avoid getting hit. Which they seem to do...

For "realistic" D20 gaming, I preferred the lowered massive damage save that other games implemented. WFRP does it right, hit points are just exhaustion and whittling the enemy down, once you go below you inflict critical wounds. A very neat adaption that still has some way for the players to assess their state.

Well (for me at least) a VP hit is something that actually hits rather than a "strenuous miss"... the latter just plain shafts poison use... not to mention just feeling lame for missing all the time.

WP... that's a whole different animal. WP hits are usually accompanied by dry heaves or the puking of blood.

That and I don't really do crits on spells.

I'm intrigued with what they're saying about the skill system. The old skill system,  plus the oodles of feats, has kept me away from regular d20 gaming for a long time.

Quote from: mattormegI'm intrigued with what they're saying about the skill system. The old skill system,  plus the oodles of feats, has kept me away from regular d20 gaming for a long time.

Mmm.  That, and the levelling.  Like, 10th-Level Stormtrooper WTF Eugene?!

Class/Level just seems...I dunno, it does not float my Star Wars boat.  I don't like for a class limit a character's abilities -- I prefer that it be a summation of what my character can do.  I described it best this way:

      In SWd20, my character is a smuggler.  Therefore, he has abilities X, Y and Z.

In D6, my character has X, Y and Z, so he's a smuggler.


It's a subtle difference, but it makes a difference to me.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Mmm.  That, and the levelling.  Like, 10th-Level Stormtrooper WTF Eugene?!

Class/Level just seems...I dunno, it does not float my Star Wars boat.  I don't like for a class limit a character's abilities -- I prefer that it be a summation of what my character can do.  I described it best this way:

      In SWd20, my character is a smuggler.  Therefore, he has abilities X, Y and Z.

In D6, my character has X, Y and Z, so he's a smuggler.


It's a subtle difference, but it makes a difference to me.

This is one the biggest reasons I like d6 better than d20. The new tweaked system for d20 sound pretty cool though.

I'm bleary-eyed and about to hit the hay, can someone summarize this book and make a post of the main points and changes so I can read it in the morning?

Gah - VP/WP wasn't perfect but it was a helluva lot better than this nonsense.  Better emulate the movies?  Yeah, like that part in EpIV when Han Solo got shot by a dozen stormtroopers and didn't so much as slow down.  What the hell.

They're using inflating hit points *and* a death spiral?  It's like a black hole of suck.  The elephant in the room is that a game like Star Wars shouldn't have goddamn inflating hit points.  They put in workarounds like this stun scale, or massive damage thresholds, or even VP/WP.  The only reason they don't just get rid of inflating hit points is because they don't want to move too far from D&D, even if it would be better for the game.  I really find this distasteful and it probably unsold me on the game.

The skill system sounds promising, though I'd be more eager to have a reduced skill list.  Too many skills is an endemic d20 problem - especially in a fast and loose setting like Star Wars having distinctions between moving silently, hiding, and sleight of hand is senseless.  If I'm a sneaky guy let me take stealth, etc.

The Force stuff, I'm glad they worked on it but I'd have to see it to be convinced.  If it's as clunky as the current system then I'd pass for sure.  They also didn't talk about AoOs but with all the mentions of minis I'm sure they're in there.  I could do without iterative attacks as well.  Also, something that bothered me about the current version is it doesn't seem possible to cut off someone's hand.  I'm big into genre emulation, and that's a problem for me.

So if I run Star Wars again I'll end up homebrewing something.  Oh well.  

VP/WP, season with a better version of 'hero point' type things from Spycraft or d20 modern.

Bosh, sorted.

'Named' characters have a fall-back to prevent one shot kills, stormtroopers still go down with a well-aimed shot.

Gizza job?

Quote from: GRIMVP/WP, season with a better version of 'hero point' type things from Spycraft or d20 modern.

I did it by allowing Force Points to be used for this, and changing it so characters got 3+Cha mod per level, 6+Cha for force users.  Worked pretty well.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Class/Level just seems...I dunno, it does not float my Star Wars boat.  I don't like for a class limit a character's abilities -- I prefer that it be a summation of what my character can do.

I'm the opposite.  Levels and classes fit pulp (including Star  Wars) very well to me.  Most of the SW characters have fairly distinct roles, so separate classes is a reasonable way to model this.  Levels are a decent way of modeling mooks - they may seem badass but they're too low level to consistently hurt the major characters.  

The simplified skills, talents, and switch to hp sounds promising.  But both hp and damage conditions sounds unwieldy, why not one or the other?

Quote from: NicephorusI'm the opposite.  Levels and classes fit pulp (including Star  Wars) very well to me.  Most of the SW characters have fairly distinct roles, so separate classes is a reasonable way to model this.  Levels are a decent way of modeling mooks - they may seem badass but they're too low level to consistently hurt the major characters.  

True, except that pulp characters don't tend to change in power level themselves.  I mean they don't start out as mooks and then get super powerful.  THat works for vanilla fantasy where it's sort of a genre staple, but even at the start of EpIV Luke is a crack pilot, and Han certainly doesn't get any tougher.

Quote from: MaddmanTrue, except that pulp characters don't tend to change in power level themselves.

Yes and no, Luke obviously changes quite a bit in what he can do.  But I'd rather treat level as power level, something like Mutants and Masterminds and throw XP out the window, advancing occasionally when they story feels like it merits it.