Y'all are welcome to be "with me" on this one. Thanks.

As for what harm could the Swine do: right now, they have no influence in the outside world, its true, and the impact they make on the gaming world right now is mostly limited to the fact that they control one of the biggest fora about RPGs, and thus manage to ruin the fun right now for the rest of us.
But not that long ago, before D20, they were in control of the "ideological" direction of the industry; and they could do so again.
Now is not the time to rest on D20's laurels.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAs for what harm could the Swine do: right now, they have no influence in the outside world, its true, and the impact they make on the gaming world right now is mostly limited to the fact that they control one of the biggest fora about RPGs, and thus manage to ruin the fun right now for the rest of us.

They own RPGNet and the Forge, this much has always been true and is true today.

I however have serious doubts that it will ever change. People of our tastes in games make up the vast majority of the gaming world. However that world doesn't spend a lot of time online fighting with the Swine.

They generally spend it playing games instead.

The very fact that we think rpgs are nothing more than games means that we'll never reach enough of a online mass to equal the Swine. We don't have the passion. Of the 40 or so regulars that have been in my campaigns over the years, I'm the only one who has spent any time online (I also happen to be the only one who designed rpgs).

The rest just don't care what the swine is saying. Their best go at it is to sign on and laugh at them a while and then never go there again.

The Swine on the other hand have real passion behind them. Just like any other fringe group on the Internet. This is where they get their self-worth. It matters more to them.

So while I think that something like the Forge will die within weeks of Clinton leaving (Ron needs someone to do the work for him) or Ron getting hit by a truck, in the end it won't matter. They will huddle together in a new location under a new cult leader and the 'work' will go on.

Everyone else will go to ENWorld and talk D20, or be nearly homeless online. Really, where would I go to talk about my homegrown fantasy system? Who in the world would care but my own group?


Nor for all that negativity, there is a upside.

Blogs have changed things for the better.

When I signed back on last week it was to check up on rumors of Ron's latest dust up. Normally I'd expected to see nothing but the heavily one sided flamewars on RPGNet and the Forge, with the moderation of both sites gutting the side of the debate they didn't approve of.

Instead google returned link after link from the Blogs calling Ron what he is, yours with them.

This is I think a more realistic goal. A counterbalance to the one-sided presentation that used to exist online. In the case of the rare non-Swine gamer who goes online, there is now a easy reference to something besides the one-true way of the Swine.

And that's cool.

Quote from: RPGPunditBut not that long ago, before D20, they were in control of the "ideological" direction of the industry; and they could do so again.
Now is not the time to rest on D20's laurels.

Like or not, we're likely more tied to the fortunes of D&D (in whatever form) than we are to merits of our view.

Other than that, I'll leave the who future of the 'RPG Industry' for another time.

I'd have to say the same. WotC and D20 (or whatever system they might switch to in the future) is the industry. Everything else is just niche and specialty stuff. They are the Microsoft of RPGs.

Always Remember, the fifth of November!

Never forget which products killed TSR
and more regrettably:

GDW

Both have been killed because of the Lady of Pain, who in turn let "Style over Substance" games to be published without any businesssense.

Quote from: SettembriniAlways Remember, the fifth of November!

Never forget which products killed TSR
and more regrettably:

GDW

Both have been killed because of the Lady of Pain, who in turn let "Style over Substance" games to be published without any businesssense.

Thing is, WotC is much bigger than TSR ever was. Wizards has Magic to keep it going, and Hasbro to keep it honest.

Quote from: gleichmanAnd that's cool.

Yes, it is.

RPGPundit

If you take a look at the colour of my user name, now, you'll see which side I'm on.  (Well, roughly on.  I refuse to conform to anyone else's position 100%.)

However, I have got to say that YOU TAKE YOURSELF WAY TOO FUCKING SERIOUSLY.  You treat your arguments like they are rocket science.

Really.  Calm down, take a deep breath, stick your tongue out at Maddman, and don't let the people here get under your skin too much.  If the management was really out to get you, they'd be doing things a hell of a lot worse than this.  They're imaginitive.

Quote from: CyberzombieIf you take a look at the colour of my user name, now, you'll see which side I'm on.  (Well, roughly on.  I refuse to conform to anyone else's position 100%.)

However, I have got to say that YOU TAKE YOURSELF WAY TOO FUCKING SERIOUSLY.  You treat your arguments like they are rocket science.

Really.  Calm down, take a deep breath, stick your tongue out at Maddman, and don't let the people here get under your skin too much.  If the management was really out to get you, they'd be doing things a hell of a lot worse than this.  They're imaginitive.

Quoted For Truth. As I've said elsewhere, the ABSOLUTE WORST THING you can do when someone pokes at you a bit at Nutkinland is to cry and complain and expound upon how they are out to get you. The ABSOLUTE BEST THING you can do is roll with it. If they give you a forum, don't sit and navel-gaze about how it's been done to make fun of you or fuck with you in some way - just grab the reins and use to the hilt what you've been given. Fuck, I've been a part of Nothingland a long time, and I've never been given a forum of my own! Have fun with it!

Quote from: CyberzombieIf you take a look at the colour of my user name, now, you'll see which side I'm on.  (Well, roughly on.  I refuse to conform to anyone else's position 100%.)

However, I have got to say that YOU TAKE YOURSELF WAY TOO FUCKING SERIOUSLY.  You treat your arguments like they are rocket science.

Really.  Calm down, take a deep breath, stick your tongue out at Maddman, and don't let the people here get under your skin too much.  If the management was really out to get you, they'd be doing things a hell of a lot worse than this.  They're imaginitive.

You guys are gonna ruin all my fun.  :mad:

Quote from: MaddmanYou guys are gonna ruin all my fun.  :mad:

I live to ruin your fun.  

Quote from: SigmundThing is, WotC is much bigger than TSR ever was. Wizards has Magic to keep it going, and Hasbro to keep it honest.

The down side of this is that WotC is big enough to kill a product line. Even one that is making them money if they thing diverting the expense of production to another line will make more.

They'd likely sell it off to another party first however. It would take quite the series of changes and events to kill it completely.

Don´t forget what happened to the Star Wars RPG license.