Quote from: S'mon;1099471I posted there:

Good post, but I think it misses out a big difference between the Original Grognards of 74-77 and the first mass-market gamers of ca 1981-1988. IME the two games were very different. In the Stranger Things Generation we weren't rolling 3d6 in order or interviewing henchmen, our PCs had names, they probably were Cavaliers or Rangers with Double Weapon Specialisation who could take on small armies at 3rd level. We were the Munchkins! But we were still exploring site-based dungeons like Keep on the Borderlands, not pre-written stories - it's just that we were slaughtering every MF'ing orc in the dungeon, and rarely running away.

Agreed, I'm from the Stranger Things generation, and my experience was different than the OG's. We didn't roll 3d6 in order. If we created a character with a backstory, it (probably) wouldn't die. We did a few dungeon crawls as newbs, but the games quickly shifted into LOTR style quests. The "ten foot pole" and "tossing flasks" style of play was not our thing.

I started with D&D 3.5 but my Dad was firmly of the AD&D generation with Second Edition being his all-time favorite edition of the game.

Since Dad was also my first DM, a lot of our 3.5 games were heavily house ruled and focused more on story and role-play similar to what AD&D 2E was trying to go for.

I guess chronologically, I'm in the 3.X generation but in terms of how I actually view the game it's closer to the 2E view.

I've always thought that the whole combat as war or sport was utter BS, and mostly as a sort of elitism from those who want their dumb ideas to sway the DM and get mad at players who actually have effective characters.

I fall squarely in the initial Grognard stage...but play with many from each of those stages, they have their strengths and weaknesses. The only ones I can't stand is those that think the players should control all aspects of the game, that meta-control by players gets shot down right away.

Huh, I am a Voyaging Grognard... That explains why I am at home with AD&D 2e! Yay!

Ooooh, do my D&D birthstone and horoscope next!

Quote from: Shasarak;1099456So I am guessing "Golden Age" for you then?

LOL.

In regards to publishing, now is the Golden Age.

I use different styles of play for different campaigns. I love lethal dungeoncrawl campaigns where you're nothing but a tomb robbing reaver, but I also love epic hero quests across Planescape and Dark Sun. I'm happy to run using OD&D or 4e and have a great time with both.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1099608LOL.

In regards to publishing, now is the Golden Age.

I use different styles of play for different campaigns. I love lethal dungeoncrawl campaigns where you're nothing but a tomb robbing reaver, but I also love epic hero quests across Planescape and Dark Sun. I'm happy to run using OD&D or 4e and have a great time with both.

Yes.  If someone GMs long enough, they develop their own style that will defy such categorizations.  I certainly went through a phase where I was fudge all the rolls all the time and lead the players by the nose to tell a story (though not quite as extreme as that sounds, because of prior killer GM phase), but what came out of that as a reaction to how it didn't work was more blended, and then evolved as I picked things from different styles that worked for me and my groups.

Seems pretty accurate to me.  I came up in the transition between 1st and 2nd edition.   My friends and I were in the "Voyager" camp, but I played with older kids and adults that were from the more Grognard-y generation.  

I think S'mon is also correct in distinguishing between the originating Grognards of the White Box era and the first "mass market" D&D players.

I wonder to what extent the age you were when you started playing is also a factor.  Adults coming to the game have different expectations than kids and teenagers.  Adults playing with other adults behave differently than adults playing with a mixed age group, or a group of young heathens left to their own devices.

Quote from: Brendan;1099660I think S'mon is also correct in distinguishing between the originating Grognards of the White Box era and the first "mass market" D&D players.

The original 1974 box was brown, not white. I think the white box was a second printing or something.

Quote from: Bren;1099920The original 1974 box was brown, not white. I think the white box was a second printing or something.

Ah, yes.  I knew that but I always think of OG D&D as "white box D&D".  Maybe that's because my exposure to OD&D was through the S&W "white box" edition and then the Wizards pamphlet reprints.  

The first copy of D&D I ever owned was the Holmes basic set.  My aunt gave me a copy when I was really young.  My brother and I couldn't figure out how to actually DO this D&D thing until an older friend of mine gave me his Mentzer red box, which I think his group had traded out for AD&D.  I was born in 77 so you can do the math on that.

Quote from: Brendan;1099660Seems pretty accurate to me.  I came up in the transition between 1st and 2nd edition.   My friends and I were in the "Voyager" camp, but I played with older kids and adults that were from the more Grognard-y generation.  

I think S'mon is also correct in distinguishing between the originating Grognards of the White Box era and the first "mass market" D&D players.

I wonder to what extent the age you were when you started playing is also a factor.  Adults coming to the game have different expectations than kids and teenagers.  Adults playing with other adults behave differently than adults playing with a mixed age group, or a group of young heathens left to their own devices.

This definitely has some merit, as I was unique in my group in that I not only played with my friends at school (started in 1978) but I also was invited into an adult group by a friend of my mother's husband, who had an established adult play group. So I got a taste of both, and I am pretty sure it both influenced my tastes in and my style of play.

Quote from: Brendan;1100051Ah, yes.  I knew that but I always think of OG D&D as "white box D&D".

It's easier to remember if you bought that box.  

QuoteI was born in 77 so you can do the math on that.

I have dice that are older than you.

Came along late 70s, but mainly played mid-80s through the 90s. Hiatus, then back on and off (more on) since 2007 or so. I'd say I'm not one thing or the other. There's great satisfaction in the problem solving aspect mentioned under Grognards. Immersive storytelling can be great, as well. I've played lvling systems using both XP and Milestones, and enjoy both. My main criteria these days has to do with crunch. I'm not into spending a great deal of time optimizing in the character building phase*, so I stay away from widgety systems (which includes 5E, which isn't near as heavy as other systems). So, honestly, I'm not sure where I fit in, categorically speaking. I'd wager that includes most of us, though.


*I being a bit specific here, because I think there's always some level of optimization attempted, be it CharGen, tactics, simple planning, etc.

Quote from: cranebump;1100853Came along late 70s, but mainly played mid-80s through the 90s. Hiatus, then back on and off (more on) since 2007 or so. I'd say I'm not one thing or the other. There's great satisfaction in the problem solving aspect mentioned under Grognards. Immersive storytelling can be great, as well. I've played lvling systems using both XP and Milestones, and enjoy both. My main criteria these days has to do with crunch. I'm not into spending a great deal of time optimizing in the character building phase*, so I stay away from widgety systems (which includes 5E, which isn't near as heavy as other systems). So, honestly, I'm not sure where I fit in, categorically speaking. I'd wager that includes most of us, though.


*I being a bit specific here, because I think there's always some level of optimization attempted, be it CharGen, tactics, simple planning, etc.

I imagine for most players, they went through phases reminicent of the described "Generations" and players incorporated aspects of each into their own gaming style as they saw fit.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1100857I imagine for most players, they went through phases reminicent of the described "Generations" and players incorporated aspects of each into their own gaming style as they saw fit.

That's the big issue with coming back to gaming.  I got the Moldvay edition right after it came out (it was my first RPG purchase)  From there it was AD&D and beyond.  Through the 80s and early 90s my group of friends played darn near every RPG by a major publisher (from Traveller to TMNT, from GURPS to Rolemaster to Mechwarrior, et al.).  D&D, as it was introduced to me, was a game of logistics.  We still had individual characters (which we named, and cared about... though less than half survived to 10th level or beyond, it seemed to me), but the game was more about tilting the odds in your favor and thinking your way to wealth and victory.  By the time that we played games like Beyond the Supernatural, it was more about free-wheeling fun and story and less about "fantasy Vietnam."  I took a hiatus about the time of late D&D 3e/early 4e, and my friends moved around the country.  With the advent of Skype, Roll20, and other electronic methods of gaming together, we started to play again 5 or so years ago (mainly D&D 5e, with some OSR).  I think we are trying to recapture the "feeling" we had in the 80s, but as the culture of gaming changed (and our lives changed), that original feeling is hard to find.  We would have never considered running a pre-written module for most of our youth (except when first learning a game), but now most of us don't have time to prep anything but.  It's hard to accept that we have changed as much as the games have...