Vindaloo looks hot, will try it next time I go to the Indian restaurant (they are nice enough to give a scale to the side and allow customization so people do not overstep)

The relevance of bringing up the "TARGET AUDIENCE" thing is that the people being referred to (i.e Old D&D players, many of whom GREW UP with the game or it had a huge impact in their lives) WERE the target audience--many of them for DECADES--but now they aren't, after they supported the game and became invested in it all that time.

They aren't just a group of entitled randos barging into a store or writing angry letters to a company demanding that their product cater to them, cuz they're so special and everything should be made with them in mind (WotC's new target audience would arguably be closer to this). But rather, many of them are the people who made the hobby originally, and now they're being pushed aside in favor of the new crowd, for whatever reason (partly political, partly financial and shifting demographics). So naturally they're gonna feel betrayed, even if maybe they shouldn't.

Greetings!

Indian food is fucking fantastic! I love it very much. Like Chinese food, and Mexican food, it has hotness dials generally from Mild, Medium, and Hot. I usually like the Medium to Hot range. Similar with the Mexican Hot ranges, some of the Indian and Chinese upper Hot ranges can be severe.

Indian food though. Just beautiful. The Saagg, the Chicken Tikka Masala, that Basmati Rice, the Garlic Naan bread, the Mango Lassi drink. Yeah, yogurt, mango, all mixed together and poured over ice. So delicious! Indian food has vegetables, rice, fish, chicken, lamb, with different sauces, spices, and recipes. Such good stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 I looked for any sort of ethnic food I could find where we were at (I think it was Portsmouth, but could have been Plymouth...it was a looong time ago and I remember a P in the name), but I do not know if I was in the wrong place, or if it may have been sparse in that city/town then (this was 1994).   It could have been the english mustard I tried in a pub, but I was racing to hammered, so I cant say.   I would like to try the mustard though.  S'mon, a brand you would recommend?


   While back on topic, I am sure Hasboro will continue to make lots and lots of money without me buying their stuff.   I hope it works out for them.

Quote from: VisionStorm on February 11, 2022, 02:50:50 PM
The relevance of bringing up the "TARGET AUDIENCE" thing is that the people being referred to (i.e Old D&D players, many of whom GREW UP with the game or it had a huge impact in their lives) WERE the target audience--many of them for DECADES--but now they aren't, after they supported the game and became invested in it all that time.

They aren't just a group of entitled randos barging into a store or writing angry letters to a company demanding that their product cater to them, cuz they're so special and everything should be made with them in mind (WotC's new target audience would arguably be closer to this). But rather, many of them are the people who made the hobby originally, and now they're being pushed aside in favor of the new crowd, for whatever reason (partly political, partly financial and shifting demographics). So naturally they're gonna feel betrayed, even if maybe they shouldn't.

Greetings!

Quite right, my friend. Tenbones was spot the fuck on, too.

Some people like to play obtuse and dumb though. It has become pretty obvious that the older D&D fan base is not the target audience, and how with the numerous examples of bullshit that WOTC produces recently being purposely designed to offend and irritate the older audience, in preference to catering to the "New Target Audience".

We all know what Tenbones meant.

Sad that some people still insist on putting their heads in the sand and playing dumb.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: VisionStorm on February 11, 2022, 02:50:50 PM
The relevance of bringing up the "TARGET AUDIENCE" thing is that the people being referred to (i.e Old D&D players, many of whom GREW UP with the game or it had a huge impact in their lives) WERE the target audience--many of them for DECADES--but now they aren't, after they supported the game and became invested in it all that time.

They aren't just a group of entitled randos barging into a store or writing angry letters to a company demanding that their product cater to them, cuz they're so special and everything should be made with them in mind (WotC's new target audience would arguably be closer to this). But rather, many of them are the people who made the hobby originally, and now they're being pushed aside in favor of the new crowd, for whatever reason (partly political, partly financial and shifting demographics). So naturally they're gonna feel betrayed, even if maybe they shouldn't.

And we're still the hobby, along with the new comers who do want to engage in it and not to change it for whatever political reasons.

D&D might have sparked the fire, but they can't put it out or choose the type of fuel it uses. WotC will keep on making money of off it but it will be as a brand and not as a game (and maybe way more money than before).

I just hope it reaches critical mass soon so it implodes back into a niche hobby like in the good old days.

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 08:57:15 AM
guess what, right wing restaurant owners (and a bit of a clue here, LOTS of them are going to be right wing, especially on a California scale) do not care about politics at work.  They are not going to go on long social media rants about lefties, they are not going to ever let you know it, even if he has issues with someone's race/politics/whatever.   He is interested in providing good service, product, and making everyone feel welcome.    This is exactly what a business should do.  Wizards of the Coast has decided to go another way.  Bringing your politics up an into your workplace is fucktarded.

There are specific cases where a business is best to be politics-free. But there are also lots of times when being political helps build and reinforce one's target audience. For example, RPGPundit constantly brings up politics when promoting his games. I think it works for his model as a business, because his target audience is highly politically skewed. There are plenty of other politically-biased brands. You suggest that RPGPundit should make left-wing gamers feel welcome and not bring politics here, but as a business, I think it has worked for him. I suspect a lot of people who might otherwise never glance at his games have taken an interest in them.

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 09:19:00 AM
As for your restaurant analogy, I have a place similar where I live.  I used to be the only white face in the place.  The customers always looked at me like I was lost, and the only staff who could speak English was the owner.

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 09:19:00 AM
A few years later he opened another location in a city down the road that was full of upper middle class white people.   I ate there, and it was pretty bland.   In essence the guy almost had to change his food to be more available to a wider audience.  I was no longer the target audience (I like spicy, flavorful food).  I stopped going.   Luckily there are taco trucks at damn near every gas station, so I found a replacement.

    This could also be the change tenbones is talking about, making the product more bland to be available to a wider audience, and honestly more the one I feel with regard to WOTC products.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my initial reply. That has nothing to do with whether one is the target audience. In your example, you liked the food *better* when you were *not* the target audience - when it was primarily catering to Latino customers, which you are not. I'd say the same for games. If you don't like the game design, then don't play it. Conversely, if you do like the game design, it doesn't matter if you're the target audience or not.

Quote from: jhkim on February 11, 2022, 03:09:00 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 08:57:15 AM
guess what, right wing restaurant owners (and a bit of a clue here, LOTS of them are going to be right wing, especially on a California scale) do not care about politics at work.  They are not going to go on long social media rants about lefties, they are not going to ever let you know it, even if he has issues with someone's race/politics/whatever.   He is interested in providing good service, product, and making everyone feel welcome.    This is exactly what a business should do.  Wizards of the Coast has decided to go another way.  Bringing your politics up an into your workplace is fucktarded.

There are specific cases where a business is best to be politics-free. But there are also lots of times when being political helps build and reinforce one's target audience. For example, RPGPundit constantly brings up politics when promoting his games. I think it works for his model as a business, because his target audience is highly politically skewed. There are plenty of other politically-biased brands. You suggest that RPGPundit should make left-wing gamers feel welcome and not bring politics here, but as a business, I think it has worked for him. I suspect a lot of people who might otherwise never glance at his games have taken an interest in them.

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 09:19:00 AM
As for your restaurant analogy, I have a place similar where I live.  I used to be the only white face in the place.  The customers always looked at me like I was lost, and the only staff who could speak English was the owner.

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 09:19:00 AM
A few years later he opened another location in a city down the road that was full of upper middle class white people.   I ate there, and it was pretty bland.   In essence the guy almost had to change his food to be more available to a wider audience.  I was no longer the target audience (I like spicy, flavorful food).  I stopped going.   Luckily there are taco trucks at damn near every gas station, so I found a replacement.

    This could also be the change tenbones is talking about, making the product more bland to be available to a wider audience, and honestly more the one I feel with regard to WOTC products.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my initial reply. That has nothing to do with whether one is the target audience. In your example, you liked the food *better* when you were *not* the target audience - when it was primarily catering to Latino customers, which you are not. I'd say the same for games. If you don't like the game design, then don't play it. Conversely, if you do like the game design, it doesn't matter if you're the target audience or not.

  You missed the point I made about the owner going out of his way to speak to me every time I was in there.  He did that, I am sure to make me feel welcome, because he has no target for his food.  the fact the place was on a strip with all hispanic businesses (one a grocery store, and I do not remember the other one) it was a Mexican customer was what was in that area.  It is the same if you go to a soul food place, they do not give a shit if you are white, they are making the food as is, and they also know something that seems to be escaping you, the entire public is their target audience. 

  But I also do not care if you get something that is not targeted to you.  Just dont conflate a restaurant with a company that feels like they get paid to virtue signal.  Businesses, if they have brains target people with MONEY, and they do not care what the people look like or think.   Pundit had a market specifically as a reaction to what WOTC did.  Just like my current favorite restaurant put a sign on the door 2 years ago. It read, "If you want to wear a mask inside, feel free to do so.  If you dont want to wear a mask you dont have to.  What you cant do is tell anyone else what to do."  Luckily the food is good.

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 03:00:48 PM
I would like to try the mustard though.  S'mon, a brand you would recommend?

Colman's is the standard. I would advise trying it in a small amount and see if you like it on eg ham. Not that it is really super hot, but it is quite vinegary.

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 03:25:35 PM
  But I also do not care if you get something that is not targeted to you.  Just dont conflate a restaurant with a company that feels like they get paid to virtue signal.  Businesses, if they have brains target people with MONEY, and they do not care what the people look like or think.   Pundit had a market specifically as a reaction to what WOTC did.

Regarding Pundit - from your profile, you've only been around since 2015. Before then, Pundit had a fair amount of political content - not as much as today. At the start of 5e, he generally sided *with* WotC since they hired him as a consultant. Pundit was political well before WotC was. I joined ten years earlier back in 2006, and he was still political at that time, like his rants about the collectivist alignment in Blue Rose.

And I think that's fine. It's his site. He doesn't ban left-wing posters, which I appreciate, but he is clear in his politics and doesn't try to make them part of his target audience. Some businesses/authors do better by targeting only specific subsets of customers, whether that's by age, politics, culture, or other division.

Quote from: jhkim on February 11, 2022, 06:18:21 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 03:25:35 PM
  But I also do not care if you get something that is not targeted to you.  Just dont conflate a restaurant with a company that feels like they get paid to virtue signal.  Businesses, if they have brains target people with MONEY, and they do not care what the people look like or think.   Pundit had a market specifically as a reaction to what WOTC did.

Regarding Pundit - from your profile, you've only been around since 2015. Before then, Pundit had a fair amount of political content - not as much as today. At the start of 5e, he generally sided *with* WotC since they hired him as a consultant. Pundit was political well before WotC was. I joined ten years earlier back in 2006, and he was still political at that time, like his rants about the collectivist alignment in Blue Rose.

And I think that's fine. It's his site. He doesn't ban left-wing posters, which I appreciate, but he is clear in his politics and doesn't try to make them part of his target audience. Some businesses/authors do better by targeting only specific subsets of customers, whether that's by age, politics, culture, or other division.

The difference being that Pundit is a small indi creator doing his own thing, not an industry juggernaut carrying the most well known and iconic brand in the entire TTRPG hobby. And he caters to a niche audience who might not even know his products were it not for his politics, RPG rants and internet infamy--and doesn't even inject politics into his games, only his marketing in his own personal YT channels and online presence. While WotC dominates the entire market and holds one of the most beloved and historic brands in the hobby hostage as they crap all over it with woke garage progressively being injected into the game.

Quote from: jhkim on February 11, 2022, 06:18:21 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on February 11, 2022, 03:25:35 PM
  But I also do not care if you get something that is not targeted to you.  Just dont conflate a restaurant with a company that feels like they get paid to virtue signal.  Businesses, if they have brains target people with MONEY, and they do not care what the people look like or think.   Pundit had a market specifically as a reaction to what WOTC did.

Regarding Pundit - from your profile, you've only been around since 2015. Before then, Pundit had a fair amount of political content - not as much as today. At the start of 5e, he generally sided *with* WotC since they hired him as a consultant. Pundit was political well before WotC was. I joined ten years earlier back in 2006, and he was still political at that time, like his rants about the collectivist alignment in Blue Rose.

And I think that's fine. It's his site. He doesn't ban left-wing posters, which I appreciate, but he is clear in his politics and doesn't try to make them part of his target audience. Some businesses/authors do better by targeting only specific subsets of customers, whether that's by age, politics, culture, or other division.

      Sort of done with you on this.  You do not understand target audience as a reason to not buy, now you argue it helps business to target a specific audience (though before mentioning a restaurant was a borderline retarded example), you pretend that being political in 2006 about anything has jack shit to do with 2022 regarding rpgs.  Come on man, you being a wiseguy?

 To finish with the restaurant example, especially regarding mexican food....IT DOES NOT TARGET MEXICANS OR OTHER HISPANIC PEOPLE.   IT TARGETS PEOPLE WHO LIKE MEXICAN FOOD.  Not the same thing, at all.

Quote from: jhkim on February 11, 2022, 06:18:21 PM

Regarding Pundit - from your profile, you've only been around since 2015. Before then, Pundit had a fair amount of political content - not as much as today. At the start of 5e, he generally sided *with* WotC since they hired him as a consultant. Pundit was political well before WotC was. I joined ten years earlier back in 2006, and he was still political at that time, like his rants about the collectivist alignment in Blue Rose.

   He rejoiced over the death of St. John Paul II in 2005. Unless he's softened from that, I have trouble moving him off the 'People Who Hate You' list, and at best, consider him an 'enemy of my enemy'.