Greetings!

Well, hello again, my friends. In my other post, I mentioned my friend and I joined a "Adventure's League" thing at our local game store. Well, there's more to that story, I can tell ya! So, we have like, 8 people in the group, plus the DM. All of us our men. Well, technically 3 of the males are just teenage kids, but you know what I mean. So, 1 DM, young guy; and 8 guys playing. My buddy and I quickly break out our characters. He and I are both Humans. He rolled up a crazy strict Viking War Priest, and I rolled up a crazy strict, kinda lawful badass superstitious Human barbarian. Worships Wotan. A ancient barbarian Germanic god of War. Think of a mix of Attila the Hun, the giant furry Germanic barbarian in Gladiator waving an axe and shouting at the whole Roman Army, just yards away from him, and Conan. That's how I quickly sketched out my character's personality. So, we have all our gear, and we're ready for anything.

The rest of the party? NOT ONE OF THEM WAS HUMAN. Not one other of them was a cleric. Not one of them was a rogue. What did we have? Yeah, no Halflings, no good Dwarves even. No ELF Rangers to kick ass with bow. Nope. None of that.

We had:

(1): Dragonborn Paladin/Warlock M
(2): Tiefling Necromancer M
(3): Air Genasi Mage M (Mage was some kind of specialist, he levitated and blew wind, and danced on his floating disc. That was about all this guy did. and shoot magic missile.)
(4): Firbolg Barbarian M
(5): Kobold Bard M
(6): Tiefling Assassin M

(7): Human Barbarian M (me)
(: Human Cleric M (My friend)

I kid you not--three of the other players asked both of us, saying "WHAT? You're just a Human?!" That got passed around to the rest of the group with looks of bewilderment and amusement.

We were playing for a few weeks, and my buddy says to me, "All these kids wanna play weird monster superheroes that "use dark powers for good" of course, none of our group were really good, regardless of what their character sheets said. The DM said our group excpet for us two was a bunch of murderhobo freaks. LOL. Yeah, in the following weeks, we met some NPC's and tried to save them, and befriend them. Three different NPC's. Two men, 1 woman. All of them were murdered within an hour of us meeting them.

The kid playing the dragonborn paladin took a level of Warlock. I asked him why did he do that? Again, no joke--he says to me, "I wanna use dark powers for good. I can use Eldritch Blast at range and not worry about ammo for my crossbow! I can also talk to evil powers!"

I looked at my buddy, incredulously, and we both said at the same time, "I WANNA USE DARK POWERS FOR GOOD!" My god we were rolling with laughter. I couldn't believe this kid multi-classing into Warlock as a Paladin! Later, my buddy says to me, "I don't think this kid really knows what Warlocks really do. He doesn't know what Paladins are supposed to do. A paladin multi classing into Warlock? Give me a break!"

My friend and I went on discussing...what the hell happened to our hobby? Friends and family we have played with for years--all played heroic Fighters, wise Wizards, kick ass Clerics, righteous Paladins reflecting Templars and heroic, chivalrous Knights like Lancelot and Galahad. Even Rangers or whatnot flavoured with John Wayne, heroes from the Bible, Sampson, David, among others; Conan, of course. Robin Hood, Solomon Kane, Beowulf, William Wallace, ala Braveheart. Friar John. Pious holy men. Like angry shepherds of God, yelling at you at the gates of Sodom or something. Crazy fun stuff. Achilles before the gates of Troy. Or Odysseus. Heroic Gunnery sergeants that charged hordes of Japanese soldiers in Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima. John Basilone, of Guadalcanal fame. MacGregor from Rob Roy. Maximus from Gladiator. Valiant Germanic Barbarian Women. Mysterious Celtic Druid women. Old, grizzled Roman Centurions standing alone, facing the oncoming barbarians. And Lord of the Rings, too. I don't know. Heroic Characters. Characters that stood for something. Characters that wanted to be heroic, and defeat evil, not try and be as close to evil as possible. Not characters that slaughtered innocent human characters that might have become allies--no, just stab them in the throat, and murder them because they "pissed me off."

In our group here, as we have played over weeks...none of the heroic inspiration for characters I mentioned. No heroic, honorable motivations. Just slaughter everyone, and laugh at how they die, and fuck all if some dumb ass just killed an important guide that can trnaslate hyroglyphics on the temple walls that no one else in the party knows. Just hurry along, laugh it up. Fuck everyone we find along the way. Don't bother trying to detect traps or disamr them, nah, just charge right the fuck into the spiked pits and shooting spike walls. Oh, and the wizard? He has dancing skills. Or spells that make you laugh. Or something. He doesn't believe in learning fireball. And the Necromancer? He wants to sit on the sidelines eating apples, and searching the dead bodies, while the rest of us fight and struggle. The Necromancer talks about torturing some brightly coloured frog people we met, which I successfully Intimidated them, and then gave them my word of honor that we wanted their help, and we would spare them. This stupid feminine goth-fucker Necromancer starts telling the frog people how he's going to torture them to death.

Meanwhile, while some of these wonderful "murderhobo's" kill valuable NPC allies--does the rest of the group say, "Hey, WTF?" Nope. They just giggle and laugh at them while they get stomped. I and my friend put our foot down about the colored frog people. I told the stupid Necromancer, "Touch the frog people I gave my word to, and I will gut you like a fish. You feel me?"

Sigh. Well, you see what I'm saying though? These newer players...they have no sense of heroism, of archetype, of heroic glory, inspired by history and myth. No sense of Honor, Dignitas. The ancient Romans believed in Dignitas. The Romans believed in fighting for the Light of Rome, defending the Empire from savage barbarians.The ancient Greeks believed it was important to be heroic, to honor the gods and to bring glory to their name. It's all just a murderous gore fest of laughing, rape and mayhem.

What is up with the Freak Trains that like being evil, and the supposedly "good" characters just standing by, laughing stupidly? No one knows how to play wizards right, supporting the team with buffs and protection. No one believes in scouting properly--just charge in, and fuck it. No one believes in roleplaying, in negotiating, and trying to win allies. Fuck it. Just slaughter them and rape them. Gotta get every copper from them! No one believes in discipline, working as a team, coordinating together. No, just giggle and fuck off with stupid stunts designed to get attention and say "Look how cool and badass I am!"

I appreciate your considered thoughts, my friends!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Were they having fun? If so, none of the rest should really matter all that much.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1059120Were they having fun? If so, none of the rest should really matter all that much.

No, I think that the Players behavior is questionable in regards to the Adventurers League's own rules. Regardless, it sounds like a fucked up group with a DM who doesn't want consequences for the PCs actions.

Quote from: jeff37923;1059123No, I think that the Players behavior is questionable in regards to the Adventurers League's own rules. Regardless, it sounds like a fucked up group with a DM who doesn't want consequences for the PCs actions.

Yes. Agree.

Quote from: jeff37923;1059123No, I think that the Players behavior is questionable in regards to the Adventurers League's own rules. Regardless, it sounds like a fucked up group with a DM who doesn't want consequences for the PCs actions.

It organized play, there are limits to the referee's authority that one agrees to before adjudicating an official AL event. It neither a bad or good thing but a consequence of what happens when you run a multi-player campaign organized to be run in multiple geographical location at once. And since AL sessions are open tables that mean who is playing can be a random assortment of folks from week to week. If you don't like those compromises then don't play Adventurer's League.

Personally I don't give a shit one way or another. From time to time I will participate in organized play events at convention (rarely at the game store) for something to do if nothing better is available. I control how I role-play. I Irregardless what the composition of the table, I will be speaking in 1st person, I will be doing the funny voices. And I am smart enough and experience to gauge how far to push it given the temperament of the table. I am not out to prove a point or ruin somebody's good time. Most of the time it is appreciated. A few time there one or two players are classic example of Queen Victoria's "not amused". And a few times players find my roleplaying very enjoyable. One guy fell to the floor with laughter over how I roleplayed.

Quote from: SHARK;1059119What is up with the Freak Trains that like being evil, and the supposedly "good" characters just standing by, laughing stupidly? No one knows how to play wizards right, supporting the team with buffs and protection. No one believes in scouting properly--just charge in, and fuck it. No one believes in roleplaying, in negotiating, and trying to win allies. Fuck it. Just slaughter them and rape them. Gotta get every copper from them! No one believes in discipline, working as a team, coordinating together. No, just giggle and fuck off with stupid stunts designed to get attention and say "Look how cool and badass I am!"

I personally have disliked the organized play / Adventurer's League the few times that I've tried it. These sorts of players have always been around - just glancing at my old Knights of the Dinner Table comics gives me plenty of mockery of them. I don't know if they're becoming more common - it seems hard to tell. It's taking the game as a casual, mostly-mindless way to blow off steam rather than something to engage in and think about.

I'd look for other groups / venues if that's not your cup of tea.

Quote from: jhkim;1059152I don't know if they're becoming more common - it seems hard to tell. It's taking the game as a casual, mostly-mindless way to blow off steam rather than something to engage in and think about.

Well, it is a game. Maybe they are playing it for fun.

See, I'm of two minds here. I don't think that being a muderhobo is a bad thing because it is a stage that we all have gone through and sometimes you don't want to deal with metaplot or dramatics - you just want to kill some orcs. I also don't think that the Adventurer's League code of conduct allows for murderhobo PCs and that the Adventurer's League is a moron magnet (when you are so adamant about being inclusive, genuinely asshole Players tend to stay longer than they should).

Honestly SHARK, I'd suggest that you start your own game group and show these young fucks how its done.

My favorite D&D 5e is Basic Rules 5e.

Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling

Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue

Though its difficult to find players who will accept these "limitations".

Meh. Sometimes people act like twerps in RPGs because there are no serious real world concequences. And there is a kind of perverse fun in kicking over every apple cart.

Find another group?

Quote from: SHARK;1059119In my other post, I mentioned my friend and I joined a "Adventure's League" thing at our local game store. Well, there's more to that story, I can tell ya! So, we have like, 8 people in the group, plus the DM. All of us our men. Well, technically 3 of the males are just teenage kids, but you know what I mean. So, 1 DM, young guy; and 8 guys playing.

A legal AL table can only have three to seven players (not counting the DM). So you've already lost your lawful alignment; no old school paladin status for you.

QuoteThe rest of the party? NOT ONE OF THEM WAS HUMAN. Not one other of them was a cleric. Not one of them was a rogue. What did we have? Yeah, no Halflings, no good Dwarves even. No ELF Rangers to kick ass with bow. Nope. None of that.

We had:

(1): Dragonborn Paladin/Warlock M
(2): Tiefling Necromancer M
(3): Air Genasi Mage M (Mage was some kind of specialist, he levitated and blew wind, and danced on his floating disc. That was about all this guy did. and shoot magic missile.)
(4): Firbolg Barbarian M
(5): Kobold Bard M
(6): Tiefling Assassin M

(7): Human Barbarian M (me)
(: Human Cleric M (My friend)

For people who are human in real life, I can see the attraction of playing non-humans. There does seem to have been a trend toward exotic races from non-PHB sources, but I still meet a fair number of humans.

QuoteMeanwhile, while some of these wonderful "murderhobo's" kill valuable NPC allies--does the rest of the group say, "Hey, WTF?" Nope. They just giggle and laugh at them while they get stomped. I and my friend put our foot down about the colored frog people. I told the stupid Necromancer, "Touch the frog people I gave my word to, and I will gut you like a fish. You feel me?"

Sounds like good roleplaying, assuming the DM didn't jump in on either side. Actually gutting another player character would violate AL rules, though.

Sounds like the table is a little munchkin heavy; I played for a while at a game store with young players who were far worse. They were peeved with me when I insisted that we could not loot the grave we found, magic item notwithstanding, because my wizard would not countenance such disrespect; but it stuck, so it's not hopeless. I later joined a table at another store with more consistent and mature membership, and we've completed four of the campaign books since.

This isn't anything new.  I encountered this a lot when running games in University back in the early aughts.  Doesn't matter the edition either.

Quote from: rawma;1059178A legal AL table can only have three to seven players (not counting the DM). So you've already lost your lawful alignment; no old school paladin status for you.



For people who are human in real life, I can see the attraction of playing non-humans. There does seem to have been a trend toward exotic races from non-PHB sources, but I still meet a fair number of humans.



Sounds like good roleplaying, assuming the DM didn't jump in on either side. Actually gutting another player character would violate AL rules, though.

Sounds like the table is a little munchkin heavy; I played for a while at a game store with young players who were far worse. They were peeved with me when I insisted that we could not loot the grave we found, magic item notwithstanding, because my wizard would not countenance such disrespect; but it stuck, so it's not hopeless. I later joined a table at another store with more consistent and mature membership, and we've completed four of the campaign books since.

Greetings!

Yeah, the DM mentioned that the rules declared a 7 player limit. He was trying to be accomodating though. The Kobold Bard is a regular Adventure League DM, so he was kind of acting as an "Assistant DM" as a knowledge resource. His Bard was several levels above the rest of us, too. *shrugg*

Indeed, there have been episodes of good role playing in the game. However, it has been annoying when some of the players have just up and jumped and killed some allied NPC when the rest of us may have benefitted greatly from their help, and the group's mission better served and advanced, you know? That's another dimesnion of the Adventure League rules, or the DM style--maybe some of both--that is frustrating. There are oftentimes *HUGE* chasms which may easily lead to problems in the group interacting together. Alignment of course is an important distinction. Classes, another source of friction. or should be. Paladins taking levels as Warlock? WTF? Then, we have Factions. We are members of the Emerald Happy Party, and one or two other members are Zhentarim Evil Exploit the fuck outta nature folks. The DM told us, yes, these organizations are naturally violently opposed to each other...but this is Adventure League, so we have to just ignore that. Then, there are cultural and racial tensions. My character, and my friends, we're both human barbarian people. And there's a Tiefling Necromancer in the group. Yeah, that goes over well with superstitious tribal people that naturally believe demonic creatures are evil and should be burned alive.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

So, you remember those RPGA fucksticks from back in the day? ... yeah, that, turned up to eleven. Now with Nanny rules to prevent social consequences.

So all of their fuckstick rage is sublimated into murdering all NPCs that move, because nothing about setting remotely matters anymore, other than glomming on new ability cards onto your PC deck. And now you know! Go Joe!

Quote from: jeff37923;1059123No, I think that the Players behavior is questionable in regards to the Adventurers League's own rules. Regardless, it sounds like a fucked up group with a DM who doesn't want consequences for the PCs actions.

Greetings!

Excellent point, Jeff. My buddy mentioned to me, saying

"How can these morons act like this? They hurt the party's mission; their characters do things that are blatantly chaotic and evil; these morons do things often that are morally offensive and provocative--and of course, by the house rules, we can't socially correct these people *in character* or out-of-character; thus, it falls on the DM to correct them, or otherwise bring to their attention how needlessly abrasive their character's behavior is--and yet, does he bother to do any of this? NOPE. He just sits there and laughs right along with them."

That does bother me, philosophically. Life has consequences--and yet, many of these players can literally do whatever they want--no matter how evil, no matter how dishonourable--and we cannot say anything or do anything to correct them, to show them how what they have done is wrong. Or, just outright punish them for being idiots. They can do whatever they want, and don't have to experience any consequences for their behavior--from us, or the DM.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Opaopajr;1059191So, you remember those RPGA fucksticks from back in the day? ... yeah, that, turned up to eleven. Now with Nanny rules to prevent social consequences.

So all of their fuckstick rage is sublimated into murdering all NPCs that move, because nothing about setting remotely matters anymore, other than glomming on new ability cards onto your PC deck. And now you know! Go Joe!

Greetings!

Damn Straight, Opaopajr. These raging fucksticks--that made me laugh, too!--where do they get all of this rage from? Why are these fucksticks so angry? Beyond that, why do they believe it is acceptable behavior--in a social group ostensibly trying to accomplish a mission--to act as moronically evil, stupid, and anti-socially as possible?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK