Quote from: Spinachcat;1109276Somebody start a pro/con ACKS thread!  

My retroclone of choice is Swords & Wizardry: White Box because OD&D is my jam, so I have no horse in the ACKS race, but it would be interesting to hear everyone's thoughts about the game. Especially actual play experience.

So I'm four years in to a regular ACKS game. Running the PC's from 1st to 9th level. What I like about ACKS is the foundation of the game. Macris really thought out the basis of the economic rules and the way all the systems of the game interconnect. Everything from mining to trade routes.

How many games have solid domain rules so when you hit that classic 9th level mark where you get followers and can found a keep, actually do something with it. My group has founded their own domain carving it out of a hostile wilderness, gathered settlers, paid their taxes to the region ruler, and finally retired their characters into rulers. Now they're restarting with the children of the domain founders 100 years down the road.

Take a look at what's online and you'll be impressed with the well thought out rules.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1109293That's my hot take. I'm not taking Trollman seriously.

Frank's being serious, I'm afraid. On his site he posts stuff called OSSR. I think it means "old school something review?" He picks an old game (White Wolf is low-hanging fruit) and does a combo of rules analysis and social justice struggle session.

Quote from: Aglondir;1109416Frank's being serious, I'm afraid. On his site he posts stuff called OSSR. I think it means "old school something review?" He picks an old game (White Wolf is low-hanging fruit) and does a combo of rules analysis and social justice struggle session.

Only Soviet Socialist Rules?

Of course he's serious, he's a zealot!

Quote from: amacris;11094041. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the ACKS setting of the Auran Empire was inspired by the Late Roman Empire. The barbarians that sacked Rome are, in ACKS, replaced by beastmen raiders. Now, the barbarians that attacked Rome were the Germans that Hitler would later characterize as the Aryan Master Race. So the role of the Aryan Master Race in ACKS is played by the pig-men and ape-men. I fail to see how this is an example of white supremacy.

2. I'm Greek-Italian ethnicity; my father was born in Alexandria, Egypt; I lived as a child in Algeria and Greece; I studied Ancient History and Arabic in college. The Auran Empire has everything to do with my own personal interests and nothing at all to do with contemporary politics.

*****
I'm grateful for the kind words extended by several of you in this thread - thank you. I'm happy to answer questions about my actual politics for anyone who cares. I'm proud of my views and very forthright.

Good to see you posting here in your own self-defense. Until today I was unaware there was any controversy over Adventurer, Conqueror, Kings. Looks like a version of D&D too me.

As far as I know, the ancient Germans were not about white supremacy. In fact they were simply about not allowing barbarian invaders and slavers to invade Germany and take their women and children and goods away. Arminius was captured as a child in a Roman raid into Germany by the Romans when they crossed the Rhine at Xanten, and he was taken captive to Rome as a young boy. He grew up and became a classically trained cavalry commander, and became Varus' chief scout. When Varus invaded Germany again in 9 a.d. Arminius united the German clan leaders, and they deliberately lured the Roman legions deep into Germany, then ambushed them at Tuetoberger Wald. All of the Roman Eagles fell, Two were captured, and one was deliberately concealed in a bog.

 It would be two decades before Roman Legions crossed the Rhine again, and they retaliated, and continued pillaging until about 275 ad
Some recommended additional reading for you;
Teutoberg Forest 9 AD
https://ospreypublishing.com/teutoburg-forest-ad-9-pb

Around 355 ad, in an attempt to escape from the invading Huns that came from the East, the Germans crossed into Roman territory. The Romans attempted to drive them back but in AD 378 the Ostrogoths and Visigoths were able to defeat them at Adrianople in the East. The Romans were now forced to do a deal with the Goths who were given permission to live within the borders of the Roman Empire under their own rulers. In return, the Goths agreed to serve under Roman officers in order to prevent further invasions. The Germans became angry though when the Romans passed a law in AD 370 prohibiting marriage between Romans and themselves. The Germans also felt they were not being treated as equals in the army.

Alaric, a Visigoths leader, took part in several campaigns under the Romans. However, when he did not receive the expected promotion in the Roman Army, he led his people against the empire. Alaric now demanded that the Visigoths should have their own independent state. In AD 410 Alaric's army was strong enough to enter Rome. Roman slaves joined with the Visigoths in sacking the city. With the slaves joining his army, Alaric now had 40,000 men at his disposal. After roaming around the Roman Empire, the Visigoths eventually decided to settle in Aquitania.

The Vandals, under the leadership of Gaiseric, also created serious problems for the Romans. With the support of the Alans, the Vandals entered Africa from Hispania in AD 429. Although, like most invading armies, the Vandals did not do damage to property in Africa, they had mainly come to settle and not to destroy. Roman writers, who were extremely hostile to their Arian form of Christianity, were mainly responsible for the Vandals' undeserved reputation for destroying anything to do with civilization.

The Vandals were good seamen and they were now in a position to control the Mediterranean. After taking Sardinia and Corsica, Gaiseric invaded Italy in AD 455 and spent fourteen days ransacking Rome.

The Romans tried to obtain revenge, but the two vast fleets they sent to Carthage were defeated by the superior Vandal navy. Although there were only about 80,000 Vandals, of which only about 20,000 were fighting men, they ruled the six million people in Roman Africa for the next hundred years.

Arianism didn't come from, or originate in Germany, It came from Rome. Arianism, in Christianity, the Christological (concerning the doctrine of Christ) position that Jesus, as the Son of God, was created by God. It was proposed early in the 4th century by the Alexandrian presbyter Arius and was popular throughout much of the Eastern and Western Roman empires, even after it was denounced as a heresy by the Council of Nicaea in 325 ad. It remained the dominant theological stance in Germany though, until the formation of the Holy Roman Empire shortly after 800 ad. The Holy Roman Empire was Catholic, and lost favor in Germany in the late 1400's due to the corruption within the church that favored the wealthy over the masses. Martin Luther was excommunicated in 1519 and formed the Protestant Church.

The Thirty Years' War was a war fought primarily in Central Europe between 1618 and 1648. One of the most destructive conflicts in human history, it resulted in eight million fatalities not only from military engagements but also from violence, famine, and plague. Casualties were overwhelmingly and disproportionately inhabitants of the Holy Roman Empire, most of the rest being battle deaths from various foreign armies. The deadly clashes ravaged Europe; 20 percent of the total population of Germany died during the conflict and there were losses up to 50 percent in a corridor between Pomerania and the Black Forest.

Initially a war between various Protestant and Catholic states in the fragmented Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a more general conflict involving most of the European great powers. These states employed relatively large mercenary armies, and the war became less about religion and more of a continuation of the France–Habsburg rivalry for European political pre-eminence.

The Dutch Republic enjoyed contrasting fortune; it obtained independence from the Holy Roman Empire and also from Spain (which had directly controlled the Dutch lands despite it not being part of the Holy Roman Empire) thus concluding its 80-year revolt against Spain. It subsequently enjoyed a time of great prosperity and development, known as the Dutch Golden Age, during which it became one of the world's foremost economic, colonial, and naval powers. The Thirty Years' War ended with the Treaty of Osnabrück and the Treaties of Münster, part of the wider Peace of Westphalia. The war altered the previous political order of European powers. The rise of Bourbon France, the curtailing of Habsburg ambition, and the ascendancy of Sweden as a great power created a new balance of power on the continent, with France emerging from the war strengthened and increasingly dominant in the latter part of the 17th century.

This balance of power remained relatively unchanged within Germany until after World War I. Then the old order of Protestant and Catholic Aristocrats were replaced by the young socialists of the National Socialist party (The Nazis). It was they that reintroduced Arianism along with white superiority into national German religion and politics, and made these key elements in the reformation and rebirth of Germany after the defeat in WWI, and the economic collapse shortly thereafter in the late 1920's.

Interestingly, the majority of Germans abandoned Arianism and white superiority after the defeat of Germany in 1945, just about as quickly as they had adopted it between 1933-1936, in favor of their previous religions of Protestantism and Catholicism. However it was adopted by Caucasians of many other nationalities around the world, after WWII. England, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Romania, and the United States all have right wing Arian white supremacist political factions well established in each country.

To say that Germany is an Arian white supremacist state is simply ridiculous, although there is a strong right wing white-supremacist political party that is strongly anti-immigration and xenophobic, and this group composes at present approximately 20% of the population of Germany.

Why is everyone all getting worked up about ACKS anyway?

This is absolutely ridiculous. Macris has done nothing wrong besides having once been employed by a company that is now politically unpopular (I know nothing about the company, so I have no idea if they are villainous or not). I suspect that most of the people who hate Macris are simply basing their opinion off propaganda without ever researching the actual history.

Macris' reference to his Mediterranean background and characterization of not!Germans as monster fodder is hilarious. For reference, the Nazis were racist against Mediterraneans. While probably not intentional, the Auran Empire setting potentially reads as alternate history revenge fiction. That is the opposite of the racist games cited by Trollman.

Being based on the Roman Empire, the Auran Empire must obviously have comparable populations and customs (if not identical because of the fantasy genre). It must have ethnically diverse population that includes analogues of the populations in the real life Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa. It must have sexual mores that are openly accepting of homosexual relationships. Thus, we should hold up Macris as an SJW icon for depicting ethnic Germans as animal-headed savages being heroically butchered by the ethnically and sexually diverse adventurers of the Auran Empire.

Obviously I am being facetious, but I am honestly surprised that I have not seen SJW fantasy settings that are transparent revenge fiction. If there are, then they have not popped on my radar.

Quote from: amacris;1109404I am quite constrained with what I can say about these things because of a variety of non-disclosure and non-disparagement agreements. But since I read and post here regularly, I thought it would be odd not to comment at all.

Thank you for taking the time to provide further information, especially since you have probably had to repeat yourself in various contexts. It's much appreciated.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1109527This is absolutely ridiculous. Macris has done nothing wrong besides having once been employed by a company that is now politically unpopular (I know nothing about the company, so I have no idea if they are villainous or not). I suspect that most of the people who hate Macris are simply basing their opinion off propaganda without ever researching the actual history.

Macris' reference to his Mediterranean background and characterization of not!Germans as monster fodder is hilarious. For reference, the Nazis were racist against Mediterraneans. While probably not intentional, the Auran Empire setting potentially reads as alternate history revenge fiction. That is the opposite of the racist games cited by Trollman.

Being based on the Roman Empire, the Auran Empire must obviously have comparable populations and customs (if not identical because of the fantasy genre). It must have ethnically diverse population that includes analogues of the populations in the real life Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa. It must have sexual mores that are openly accepting of homosexual relationships. Thus, we should hold up Macris as an SJW icon for depicting ethnic Germans as animal-headed savages being heroically butchered by the ethnically and sexually diverse adventurers of the Auran Empire.

This made my day - thank you.

Yes, the setting has analogs to Arabs, Bactrians, Greeks, Iberians, Persians, Phoenicians, etc. The Auran Empire is portrayed as quite diverse, with people of various ethnic groups working together.

Yes, it has exceptionally open sexual mores, probably more so than actual Roman because it's more gender-neutral than the patriarchal Romans. In fact, the harshest criticism I've ever gotten of the game art was over (a) depictions of sex acts on a temple wall [based on real temple art] and (b) depictions of a female queen with half-naked male servants serving her. (Sometimes I think contemporary westerners have a hard time understanding a worldview that's utterly absent the idea that sex is a sin.)

It's also worth noting that the chaotic religion of the villains is literally based on ancient Christianity as viewed through a dark and nihilistic lens (e.g. "Jesus was a zombie" "Christians are cannibals who eat their own god" etc). The Aurans believe that you should burn the dead so that the soul can be freed to transmigrate, and they revere their heroic ancestors with worship alongside the deified emperors and the gods. The evil Chthonic faith teaches that when you die, you need to bind your soul to your body (e.g. become undead) to preserve your physical and spiritual integrity, and teach you to wait in your tomb until the Awakening, when the Chthonic gods will purify the earth and restore the sanctified bodies of the believers. This wasn't intended as some deep metaphysical commentary on Christianity; it simply allowed me to explain both resurrection and reincarnation and provided a convenient excuse to have hidden tombs packed with slumbering undead all over their place.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1109528Thank you for taking the time to provide further information, especially since you have probably had to repeat yourself in various contexts. It's much appreciated.

I probably don't do it enough, given the ongoing disinformation campaign. Thanks for reading my comments.

In the event Blicero from Gaming Hub reads this:

Thanks for the thorough review of the book. I think you were harsh but fair and am grateful you took the time to analyze it in such detail. You misunderstood the math of the distribution of places of power though, which does in fact follow the example I gave. Note that size is not power level. (And the rounding in the example was insignificant to the calculation of per-hex density, while the ratio of the three categories was relevant to the power of the place.)

To address a refrain from both this and your Player's Companion review: I'm well-aware of the fact that neither the classes nor the spells of D&D were created with any sort of system. But the OSR had a mantra that "D&D is always right" so I took it upon myself as a fun challenge to attempt to reverse engineer systems that yielded D&D-like results consistently. Because the class- and spell-building systems are built on the very shaky foundation of early D&D, they can't be used as a GURPS-style point build system but many years of play has shown they work very well as a tool if used judiciously. I grant as self-evident that it's a quixotic effort.

Since you think that domains and mass combat is the game's killer app, I'd like to extend to you an offer to preview the revised Axioms issue 3, which has the most extensive and detailed domain and economics rules I have published to date. I think you'd give it a thorough assessment.

Quote from: amacris;1109543This made my day - thank you.

You are quite welcome.

Quote from: amacris;1109543Yes, the setting has analogs to Arabs, Bactrians, Greeks, Iberians, Persians, Phoenicians, etc. The Auran Empire is portrayed as quite diverse, with people of various ethnic groups working together.

I'm really frustrated that sort of cultural exchange isn't depicted in mainstream media, and it's doubly annoying because the blame rests at the feet of the self-styled SJWs. I watched Merlin and was surprised that Guinevere wasn't some Moorish noblewoman, because that would have made far more sense for Arthur to marry her later. Greek mythology has several black kings, queens, princes and princesses who never show up in adaptations. Africa has countless mythologies that never get referenced in Western popular culture. The Aethiopica ("The Ethiopian Story") is about the adventures of a black princess who could pass for white, and ends with her interracial marriage to a Greek nobleman.

Quote from: amacris;1109543Yes, it has exceptionally open sexual mores, probably more so than actual Roman because it's more gender-neutral than the patriarchal Romans. In fact, the harshest criticism I've ever gotten of the game art was over (a) depictions of sex acts on a temple wall [based on real temple art] and (b) depictions of a female queen with half-naked male servants serving her. (Sometimes I think contemporary westerners have a hard time understanding a worldview that's utterly absent the idea that sex is a sin.)

All known cultures have some kind of sexual taboos (perhaps the only universal one is a taboo against public sex, which at best is seen as extremely rude and obnoxious), but the idea of sex itself being shameful can traced directly to Christianity and its concept of original sin. I'm not interested in a full digression, but I find it bizarre that Christians simultaneously consider their bodies both made in the image of God and shameful to look at (especially women's bodies for some reason). I can understand if the body must be covered due to its innate holiness (as with covering holy objects, or gods/angels concealing themselves to avoid causing an epidemic of eyeballs exploding and spontaneous combustion), but punishing someone for the divine appearance they were born with makes no sense to me.

Quote from: amacris;1109543It's also worth noting that the chaotic religion of the villains is literally based on ancient Christianity as viewed through a dark and nihilistic lens (e.g. "Jesus was a zombie" "Christians are cannibals who eat their own god" etc). The Aurans believe that you should burn the dead so that the soul can be freed to transmigrate, and they revere their heroic ancestors with worship alongside the deified emperors and the gods. The evil Chthonic faith teaches that when you die, you need to bind your soul to your body (e.g. become undead) to preserve your physical and spiritual integrity, and teach you to wait in your tomb until the Awakening, when the Chthonic gods will purify the earth and restore the sanctified bodies of the believers. This wasn't intended as some deep metaphysical commentary on Christianity; it simply allowed me to explain both resurrection and reincarnation and provided a convenient excuse to have hidden tombs packed with slumbering undead all over their place.

That is quite clever. In my setting, the adventurers are immoral tomb raiders and the undead were raised by the souls in the tomb to defend their resting places.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1108680Frank Trollman's real last name is Trollman.  Since you typically inherit your name, I don't think that you should refuse to take anything seriously given someone's real name.  

I recall a Saturday Night Live episode with Nicolas Cage playing a guy with the last name 'Asswipe' (pronounced Az-wee-pay).

Aren't you the one that went crying to the Den that we were saying mean things about Crazy Frank?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1109737Aren't you the one that went crying to the Den that we were saying mean things about Crazy Frank?

Did he? Link?

You know how Trollman accused Macris of "racist terrorism" and "white supremacy" and mass murder? Well, it turns out that he decided to double down. Now he's also accusing Macris of funding and controlling a "terrorist network". He also accuses Macris of money laundering, and the barking hyenas on the site are supporting him on this. When I asked him for the precise name of this alleged "terrorist network", he won't directly answer and becomes very disturbingly non-specific in his massively arrogant way. It looks like he also tries to imply that Macris is partially responsible for the El Paso Shooting, and I still can't quite figure out how or why he's coming to this insane conclusion.....even after everything that I've read. The Denners then tried to side track the discussion by completely sperging out when I asked them if they think that Macris funds Antifa (an actual terrorist network). And then they tried to claim that "Milo supports pedophilia", when he was the one who was the victim of sexual assault.....and Yiannopoulos just seems (to me) like a victim in denial about his own abuse. It was all very weird. But Trollman very blatantly tried to discourage anyone from buying ACKS, because of all this.

Quote from: FrankTrollman

Quote from: Sacrificial LambSo tell us, Frank. Do you have the individual names of the 24 to 999 people that Alexander Macris is personally responsible for murdering?

Quote from: Frank TrollmanHe funneled money to an organization that trained, radicalized, encouraged, and promoted a series of terrorist mass murderers. Here is, for example One of the mass murders that came into being because of the terrorist network that Macris helped set up. That article was in Time. Twenty two people died in that event. That specific event, and Macris' own timeline admits that he helped finance this after the organization in question was already tied to these actions.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambIf a tabletop rpg publisher murdered hundreds of people, this would be front page news. Right?

The thing I don't understand is why you dumb assholes think that I think that people who act as bag men for terrorists are "bad asses" that I'd be personally afraid of in a dark alley. When they caught up with him, Osama Bin Laden was a creaky old pervert with kidney failure. He wasn't Hitler from the end of Wolfenstein 3D, he was Hitler from the end of Downfall. People who funnel money to hate groups aren't strong or brave, they're just hateful assholes who lack the courage of their convictions to even be paste eating Proud Boys.

Kissinger has lots of blood on his hands, but he's not a 10th level anti-paladin, he's just a frail old man with severe kyphosis. Obviously we understand that Macris isn't John Wick, because we know that being morally reprehensible doesn't give you super powers. Because we live in the real world, where funneling money to violent hate groups is a moral choice, and one which the vast majority of people manage to successfully correctly choose to abstain from every day of their fucking lives. Making a "deal with the devil" to perform money laundering for racist billionaires to pay for incitement of racist violence isn't like a D&D deal with the devil where you get extra hit dice and a prestige class - it just is a permanent stain on your character where people who once thought you were an OK dude never think that again.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambYou should publicly APOLOGIZE to Macris.

I've got a better idea: I'm never going to take moral choice advice from someone who thinks Antifa is a terrorist organization and sees nothing wrong with money laundering for Milo after he started promoting violent white supremacist hate groups. I'm never going to apologize to Macris. He's a horrible human being who failed the most basic moral test of our times. And I'm going to hold you in utter contempt for as long as I remember that you even exist because you are a fascist shit stain who makes the world worse just by existing.

-Frank

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;1108464Hi, guys. I haven't posted on gaming websites in years, but I recently saw this post from Frank Trollman that -

Well, his name is TROLLman.

But so? Who cares what he thinks of some game? Do you like it? If so, play it! If not, don't.

Let's be serious: your favourite game sucks. But that's your problem, not mine. Why are you indignant at his indignation? Pass the cheetoes and game on, motherfucker.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;1109757You know how Trollman accused Macris of "racist terrorism" and "white supremacy" and mass murder? Well, it turns out that he decided to double down. Now he's also accusing Macris of funding and controlling a "terrorist network". He also accuses Macris of money laundering, and the barking hyenas on the site are supporting him on this. When I asked him for the precise name of this alleged "terrorist network", he won't directly answer and becomes very disturbingly non-specific in his massively arrogant way. It looks like he also tries to imply that Macris is partially responsible for the El Paso Shooting, and I still can't quite figure out how or why he's coming to this insane conclusion.....even after everything that I've read. The Denners then tried to side track the discussion by completely sperging out when I asked them if they think that Macris funds Antifa (an actual terrorist network). And then they tried to claim that "Milo supports pedophilia", when he was the one who was the victim of sexual assault.....and Yiannopoulos just seems (to me) like a victim in denial about his own abuse. It was all very weird. But Trollman very blatantly tried to discourage anyone from buying ACKS, because of all this.

What a silly, silly man he is. In light of this antics, I'm hereby demoting him from Trollman to Gnollman. He lacks the intellectual Hit Dice of a troll.

Frank Gnollman: MV 30', AC 0, HD 2, hp 2, #AT 1 hyperbolic accusation of terrorism, Dmg None, Save F2, ML -4, XP None, Special Abilities: generate laughter (victims of "attack" must save vs. Paralysis or be stunned for 1d4 rounds laughing at the words coming out of his mouth)