Quote from: S'mon;1001909Making a pass at one of the most active Social Justice Warriors in the RPG industry was certainly idiotic. Getting in an argument with her about sexual assault possibly even dumber (especially as I think Price is objectively right on that one).

I do think these are modern issues, and Frank seems like an old codger who had no idea what he was getting into or the implication in lost contracts - no SocJus-supporting RPG publisher will hire him now.

Nah, my parents are older than Frank and know better than that. It's not an issue of age.

Quote from: Dumarest;1001914I don't Twitter either, but you can read it all via the link up above...

Twitter is blocked by the firewall ATM, so I can't.

Yeah, Dumarest is right. Receiving a message from somebody you don't really know saying "you're so beautiful I wish I was 30 years younger. Let's chat again soon" is weird and reprehensible in any era.

Unless it was on Tinder.

Quote from: Dumarest;1001813I'd call his response more than clueless, and it fits right in with the messages he denied sending on that Dragonfoot thing before. Hard to square with the people who claim they know him well and he's not like that. Eh, I don't know the guy and his project didn't interest me.

He certainly acted the fool but a lot of creative types are fools and creeps. This is all interpersonal drama that has gone on forever between people, it is only social media that makes it all into something we even know or care about.

These days you don't need soap operas. You have social media.

Quote from: Dumarest;1001915Nah, my parents are older than Frank and know better than that. It's not an issue of age.

Agreed and seconded. I can understand if Frank was frozen in suspended animation since the 1950s then recently thawed out. Or living in a timecapsule from the same period and released.  That might explain his somewhat questionable behavior. Now their is no reason or even excuse for to explain his recent behavior. Short of mental illness due to age.

Quote from: sureshot;1001935Agreed and seconded. I can understand if Frank was frozen in suspended animation since the 1950s then recently thawed out. Or living in a timecapsule from the same period and released.  That might explain his somewhat questionable behavior. Now their is no reason or even excuse for to explain his recent behavior. Short of mental illness due to age.

I'm pretty sure even in the '50s it wasn't cricket to threaten to destroy careers just because someone disagreed with you about whether a woman deserved harassment for not fighting back enough. Doesn't matter if the threat is credible or looney tunes.

I'm guessing this person has a GamerGate block list of some sort enabled, as when I tried to view the tweets I got the below.

 [ATTACH=CONFIG]1839[/ATTACH]

So the gossip about Frank and Her is Frank hit on her via Twitter?

I can't help myself when it comes to RPG Industry drama, it's like slowing down to watch a car crash site on the highway. Morbid Curiosity.

Quote from: Dumarest;1001939I'm pretty sure even in the '50s it wasn't cricket to threaten to destroy careers just because someone disagreed with you about whether a woman deserved harassment for not fighting back enough. Doesn't matter if the threat is credible or looney tunes.

Hard to really say with certainty though as woman had less rights back then. My point was that claiming age as a factor for his behavior is complete bullshit to me at least.

Just curious, I thought she was upset with him because he disagreed with her about how victims should respond or whatever. Did he actually threaten her job / employment in exchange for something? That last one was new to me.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1001950... was upset with him because he disagreed with her about how victims should respond...

For clarity's sake:

Price was having a conversation about a groping incident on a bus in Portland. Franks shows up (after hitting on Price in a FB exchange) to say if the woman didn't like a man she didn't know touching her on a bus she should have punched him. (Apparently, not only is unwanted touching out of the blue normal, but any sign of disinterest short of violence is -- saying "Okay"?)

Price points out that in such moments people often freeze up. Frank says this is wrong. Several women show up on the thread (all of whom have been in similar situations) and say, "Actually, yes, you freeze up." Price offers studies that show people in these situations freeze up. A man shows up who was touched inappropriately and says, "Yes, you freeze up."

Frank declares that everyone is 'sick" for stating what they are stating. (Price has screen captures. Frank says this.) Price asks him to leave the thread. Frank doesn't leave the thread. (He is, let's be clear, now arguing with with women and a man who have been assaulted and telling them they handled themselves in a sick manner).

Price blocks Frank from the thread because he won't stop posting. Frank then sends her a FB message stating he's really sorry he gave her all those compliments in the first email to her because he was all wrong about her. She asks him to stop contacting her. He starts typing a message back (she can see the little dots bubbling away as he types.) She blocks him.

For the record... all of this goes beyond "disagreeing with her" about how victims should respond. He was coming off a cantankerous bully who didn't now when to shut up -- let alone take a hint about... well, anything.

Which is the crux of the matter here. Old or not, whenever he grew up or whatever, you've got a guy who simply never seemed to learn how to interact with people. There are lots of people like this. And when the shit hits the fan they seem -- again and again -- incapable of looking at their own behavior and simply blaming everyone else.

Quote from: Gwarh;1001940I'm guessing this person has a GamerGate block list of some sort enabled, as when I tried to view the tweets I got the below.

 [ATTACH=CONFIG]1839[/ATTACH]

So the gossip about Frank and Her is Frank hit on her via Twitter?

I can't help myself when it comes to RPG Industry drama, it's like slowing down to watch a car crash site on the highway. Morbid Curiosity.

I wanted to copy/paste her Twitter feed for you, but I am way too scared of those guys. It's like discussing the Mafia

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;1001960For clarity's sake:

Price was having a conversation about a groping incident on a bus in Portland. Franks shows up (after hitting on Price in a FB exchange) to say if the woman didn't like the man she didn't know touching her on a bus she should have punched him. Price points out that in such moments people often freeze up. Frank says this is wrong. Several women show up on the thread (all of whom have been in similar situations) and say, "Actually, yes, you freeze up." Price offers studies that show people in these situations freeze up. A man shows up who was touched inappropriately and says, "Yes, you freeze up."

Frank declares that everyone is 'sick" for stating what they are stating. (Price has screen captures. Frank says this.) Price asks him to leave the thread. Frank doesn't leave the thread. (He is, let's be clear, now arguing with with women and a man who have been assaulted and telling them they handled themselves in a sick manner).

Price blocks Frank from the FB because he won't stop posting. Frank then sends her a FB message stating he's really sorry he gave her all those compliments in the first email to her because he was all wrong about her. She asks him to stop contacting her. He starts typing a message back (she can see the little dots bubbling away as he types.) He blocks her.

For the record... all of this goes beyond "disagreeing with her" about how victims should respond. He was coming off a cantankerous bully who didn't now when to shut up -- let alone take a hint about... well, anything.

Which is the crux of the matter here. Old or not, whenever he grew up or whatever, you've got a guy who simply never seemed to learn how to interact with people. There are lots of people like this. And when the shit hits the fan they seem -- again and again -- incapable of looking at their own behavior and simply blaming everyone else.

Yes, that's what she reported, and it's presumably true.

I guess my feeling is that he was definitely being a jerk, worthy of negative gossip among friends, but he didn't deserve to be called out publicly on Twitter and have his remaining career harmed - there are posts "I was hiring him, no more!" by RPG publishers on her feed.  A few obnoxious comments does not a Harvey Weinstein make.

I had a low opinion of Price after seeing her turn Paizo's fora into a miserabilist SJW ghetto over a couple years, almost single handed. This doesn't affect my opinion of her. Her career seems to be primarily as an SJW, not doing anything constructive. It does further lower my opinion of Mentzer after the EOTB fiasco, which is a shame. I have a lot of respect for his work on BECMI D&D. Plus the SJW Inquisition may now be coming back for Aleena the Cleric's tabard...

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1001950Just curious, I thought she was upset with him because he disagreed with her about how victims should respond or whatever. Did he actually threaten her job / employment in exchange for something? That last one was new to me.

Yeah I haven't actually seen that only the claim. Where did he post this? Seems possible though.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;1001960For the record... all of this goes beyond "disagreeing with her" about how victims should respond. He was coming off a cantankerous bully who didn't now when to shut up -- let alone take a hint about... well, anything.

The sad part is some my former gaming group were the same way. You could not try and tell them anything negative about their behavior or they did one of two things or both. Act in super passive agressive snarky manner for daring being told they acted badly. Or double down in the same manner or both. I can't believe I put up with that kind of crap for a decade then I had enough and began gaming with better behaved gamers.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;1001960Which is the crux of the matter here. Old or not, whenever he grew up or whatever, you've got a guy who simply never seemed to learn how to interact with people. There are lots of people like this. And when the shit hits the fan they seem -- again and again -- incapable of looking at their own behavior and simply blaming everyone else.

While also not having a single iota of common sense. If 10 no even 5 people tell me that if someone touches them inappropriately I tend to take their word for it unless proven otherwise. Not double down and do what Frank did. Then again like my post above I had to get in a major argument with two brothers who kept falling asleep at the gaming table before they actually stopped sleeping during game sessions. Once or twice OK yet both were passing out after stuffing themselves full of junk food because they just had to play computer games until 4-5 am in the morning. Only and only once I became really angry did they stop falling asleep. You think common courtesy would dictate not falling asleep at the table out of respect for the DM. Yet if anyone else did the same in their games it was the end of the world.