Quote from: JRT;997536That KS campaign is asking for an enormous goal--$250,000?!  

I think that is very unrealistic.  To compare, Monte Cook Game's campaigns, both for Boxed Sets and original products, have been under $100k.  The only one that even comes close to this KS amount was the recent Invisible Sun campaign, and that one has very high production costs with all the physical do-dads.

Also not entirely sure about the 10 different rules sets.  That tends to be a problem.  They recently had to cancel 2 of the 5 proposed rule sets available to the Talisanta: The Savage Land KS because of the problems getting support for it.  

I'll likely back it, and I hope he can get it funded, but this is an awfully high goal.

I've backed it and have fingers crossed but you may be right, it is a big ask.

Quote from: JRT;997536That KS campaign is asking for an enormous goal--$250,000?!  

I think that is very unrealistic.  To compare, Monte Cook Game's campaigns, both for Boxed Sets and original products, have been under $100k.  The only one that even comes close to this KS amount was the recent Invisible Sun campaign, and that one has very high production costs with all the physical do-dads.

Also not entirely sure about the 10 different rules sets.  That tends to be a problem.  They recently had to cancel 2 of the 5 proposed rule sets available to the Talisanta: The Savage Land KS because of the problems getting support for it.  

I'll likely back it, and I hope he can get it funded, but this is an awfully high goal.

I've signed on as a backer, but I have concerns similar to yours. This has a lot of "moving parts" that can become failure points. On the plus side there are a lot of industry veterans involved who should help bring this project to completion. I hope they have plans for whenever one or more of the creative contributors are unable to deliver. With this many people involved it almost seems inevitable that this will happen due to life events impacting someone, or there being some kind of personality conflict blowing up.

Quote from: JRT;997536That KS campaign is asking for an enormous goal--$250,000?!  

It does seem to miss that the best strategy is to set your goal low. Passing the goal then gives you something to announce, and the race for stretch goals begins, making more noise. The longer a Kickstarter takes to get to the basic goal, the more skittish people get about signing on. I don't think this Kickstarter is doomed, but it doesn't seem the best approach to get the most money.

QuoteAlso not entirely sure about the 10 different rules sets.  That tends to be a problem.  They recently had to cancel 2 of the 5 proposed rule sets available to the Talisanta: The Savage Land KS because of the problems getting support for it.

Even more, they are promising future adventure modules for all of these rule sets. That seems like it will be incredibly difficult to manage.

Obviously the logistics of getting it done are going to be rough, but it is also make me worry about lack of design focus. I look for entirely different things in a setting when using different systems. D&D variants involve levelling up fighting bigger and bigger opponents. In Savage Worlds, the characters have a lower power curve, and campaigns often ramp up as the number of combatants in fights increases. In RuneQuest, I want organizations that players join for training and support. I'd feel better if the setting was geared towards a particular game.

They seem to be making life harder than it needs to be with BECMI, S&W, and AD&D versions. Just pick one of those and any self-respecting GM using one of the other two will be able to use it just fine.

My concerns aside, I hope this all goes well.

Without clicking on any of the videos, I see 75 bucks for a hard copy that gets me one rule system, a lot of name dropping, nothing solid about why this is such a great campaign world, setting, or what ever it exactly is that I should buy it other than name dropping.

I hope it succeeds, but I'm not seeing enough to get me interested.

Well, that is without watching the video.

I'm on the other side of the fence: the only reason I would support it is if I want to support those dropped names. I'm really not in the market for another game world (except maybe to mine for ideas). I'm not sure what kind of presentation one could do for a page like this (or the videos) that could help me distinguish a great campaign world, setting, or what ever it exactly is from a not-great-one.

Of course I've backed all of one other kickstarter (Bruce Heard's 'I can't write Known World material anymore, so here's the next best thing' campaign setting). So I am the wrong person to ask how to present a KS sales pitch.

My thoughts after watching the kick starter videos:

***The funding goal is huge. And it really sounds like from Mentzer's words that this project it some sort of "legacy" project as he gets older in life. Those scary me as they translate as, "I never was an astronaut so I am looking for someone way to leave my mark on some segment of humanity before the long dirt nap." and those types of projects never reach their full potential and especially not in the life time of the author.

***A non-profit website with millions of input? Really? how about just a cool game world?

***he uses the word "vanilla" way to often. I could do vanilla when I was 14. I understand there is a time and place for it. But a weird marketing strategy.

***is this whole thing like searching for the "Unified Theory" in physics as applied to all fantasy RPG games?

That sounds frighteningly like Marc Miller's Traveller 5e.

Now that the Kickstarter is live, any way the mods can offload the Dragonsfoot non-Empyrea relevant posts to another thread?

Quote from: Voros;997146I've never got the hate for Williams. Seems a lot unsubstaniated claims are projected onto her based on secondhand hearsay by people who have every reason in the world to hate her (Gygax, Arneson, Mentzer, Kask).

Meanwhile those who actually worked under her like Bruce Heard, Michal Breault and Zeb Cook don't have much bad to say about her and it's not like any of them have to lie today to protect their jobs.

Sure she ripped off Gygax but from Jon Peterson's excellent essay on his ouster it seems he was helping drive the business into the ground (note Person finds that Gygax was in favour of buying the infamous needlework company he later claims to have opposed) and was out to fuck over and blame the Blumes for everything (he promised to buy them out and them strung them along for weeks or months), just as he fucked over Arneson business-wise.

In business people often behave terribly and almost everything that happened to Gygax he had done earlier to others, including using copyright threats against other creators. Karma is a motherfucker indeed.

Williams brought the company back from the brink (I find Gygax's claims that he did via OE and UA highly suspect) and kept it alive for another decade plus. She obviously wasn't the creative person that Gygax was but she was a much better business person even if TSR eventually tanked. From all signs if Gygax had retained power TSR would have tanked when the first RPG bubble burst. I mean, have you actually read that shitty D&D film script he was banking on?

It is also notable that whenever a proper reporter or historian has looked into it, both Ewalt and Peterson, have found Gygax's version of events with Williams to be full of shit.

I've never even seen anything close to an account of all that went down by Williams or either of the Blumes. It all seems to come from Gary who of course is the hero in his own tale. i enjoyed Empire of Imagination but did take a lot with a grain of salt and knew it was a bit valentine to Gary.

Quote from: DavetheLost;997547Without clicking on any of the videos, I see 75 bucks for a hard copy that gets me one rule system, a lot of name dropping, nothing solid about why this is such a great campaign world, setting, or what ever it exactly is that I should buy it other than name dropping.

Some info on the campaign setting, itself, can be found here:
http://worldsofempyrea.com/what-is-empyrea/

Quote from: What Is Empyrea web page

• Empyrea is based on three premises: magic instead of Technology, a sentient but indifferent Planet who knows how everything can be in balance, and royals who place quality of life (for all) above unbalancing mass whims (like war and wealth).
• These premises have far-reaching consequences, and I have spent decades extrapolating the results and applying them to an entire continental society. (I have over a thousand chatroom game logs, i.e. my laboratory.)
• Our story is about Empyrea at its height. It is geographically constrained on all four sides, and Evil wants to spoil the party. But at the moment it's a comfortable Realm, the sort of world in which your current player characters have thrived. They'll find a second home in Empyrea.
• Empyrea is on the mysterious and isolated continent of Aquaria, east of Gygax's World of Greyhawk™ setting. Until now, knowledge of this portion of the world has remained largely a mystery, as the broad and dangerous Solnor ocean separates the two. The continent is briefly described in the Advanced D&D® adventure "Egg of the Phoenix" (Mentzer & Jaquays, TSR Inc., 1987).
• Unlike others, Gary approved this personally. Empyrea combines both traditional fantasy and science fiction elements. Magic is dominant, but technology lurks. And it's one Realm... this isn't a cluster of medieval city-states like Greyhawk.
• Empyrea was settled by demi-humans (elves, dwarves, hobbits, etc) who fled from Greyhawk to escape the warring human states. A century later, human colonists arrived in the style of Columbus, intent to loot and conquer the new continent. The demi-humans successfully repelled their invasion and the humans were forced to live by their rules. The demi-human rulers are benevolant hippie types, who want everyone to live in harmony with nature, care for animals, and so on.
• Orcs were at one point treated as slaves by the civilized races, but have recently been emancipated. They are now struggling to build their own society so they can be accepted by the other races. Some of them want to get along, others want to return to their savage ways.
• The present situation is unstable. There is an evil army to the south threatening invasion, while to the north is a race of hostile giants. To the west, contact with Greyhawk has been cut off by an empire of giant squids that now rule the ocean.
• The world will include a magical art gallery where the game master can provide portals to other campaign settings.
• The setting is designed to be easy to get into and start adventuring in, so that players don't have to read lengthy setting guides before playing. The core areas are very standard fantasy like you expect from D&D, the weird stuff is hidden in the background.
• The setting does not include an original pantheon.
• SPOILERS: Additional sub-plots involve orcs trying to be civilized, dragons deciding not to be adventurer-fodder any longer, an undersea race of giant squid who actually rule the planetary ocean, a Lost World right next door, giants who may have an off-planet heritage, and Immortal beings who might just erase everything and start over. But that's all in the background, and won't affect you... much.

I dig the more unique touches like the freed Orcs and Giant Squid empire.

Quote from: Celestial;997102Lorraine Williams is the one that made the Buck Rogers XXVc RPG happen, and the Buck Rogers XXVc RPG was instrumental in getting me into the hobby, so she can't be all bad.

Except she did it to essential shunt money from TSR to her family's personal fortune (she's the heiress to the copyrights to Buck Rogers).

Quote from: RPGPundit;998722Except she did it to essential shunt money from TSR to her family's personal fortune (she's the heiress to the copyrights to Buck Rogers).

I did not know this. Damn. That's a stain on an otherwise wonderful game and IP.

Quote from: RPGPundit;998722Except she did it to essential shunt money from TSR to her family's personal fortune (she's the heiress to the copyrights to Buck Rogers).

Outrageous to think anyone would be in business to make money! :eek: Next you'll tell me politicians aren't always honest!

A CEO having her company licensing IP that he personally owned prior to becoming CEO would normally be a huge no-no. The conflicts of interest are too blatantly obvious. Of course, she owned TSR, so I guess she could do whatever she wanted.

The most charitable spin to put on it is that she was trying to expand TSR as aggressively as she could, didn't understand that Buck Rogers had zero cachet in the 1990s, and thought that it was an easy win to expand into sci-fi.