Quote from: Voros;994403To return to the OP I found Mentzer's D&D modules charming but I'd have to return to them to form a proper opinion. Regardless the Red Box continues to be a model of clarity in RPGs so I'm definitely interested in checking it out.

Regarding Cyborg Commando, that particular mess reads very Gygaxian to me, I suspect FM and Mohan were handed Gary's notes and struggled to create anything coherent out of them, from all sources it also seems Gary was pretty hostile to editorial changes (and his books reflect it).

Not possible. We all know that the words came from on high, prefect in the every form; without blemish.

According to those who weren't there...

I'd be interested in seeing it if no other reason (I believe anyway) it was conceived while FM was with Gary at TSR. Has anyone read anything as to why TSR never published it even though it's set in the same world as Greyhawk?

Quote from: GrabtharsHammer;994594I'd be interested in seeing it if no other reason (I believe anyway) it was conceived while FM was with Gary at TSR. Has anyone read anything as to why TSR never published it even though it's set in the same world as Greyhawk?

Was that stated? I must have missed that.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;994603Was that stated? I must have missed that.

I could've sworn I read that he at least had the concept and had brought it to Gary, again I may be mistaken and I apologize if I'm spreading bullshit.

Quote from: GrabtharsHammer;994611I could've sworn I read that he at least had the concept and had brought it to Gary, again I may be mistaken and I apologize if I'm spreading bullshit.

Eh, found what it might be: "When I was Gary's Creative Aide, we talked about my Campaign. We decided to publish it, but Gary wanted it very distant, with no active connections to his continent. That's what he wanted so that's what I did."  

That sounds pretty remote a stretch. But it doesn't really matter I suppose.

Quote from: Elfdart;992160*DF has issues of its own, namely that members of the K&K Klan have, with the consent of the proprietor, more or less taken over moderation duties. So, while K&Kers are free to attack other posters, any kind of lively response is twisted into being a "personal attack" and met with bans and threats of same. Similarly, when a K&Ker starts getting owned in a discussion, the bans come out, threads get locked, etc.

You make me feel glad I left that forum.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;994615Eh, found what it might be: "When I was Gary's Creative Aide, we talked about my Campaign. We decided to publish it, but Gary wanted it very distant, with no active connections to his continent. That's what he wanted so that's what I did."  

That sounds pretty remote a stretch. But it doesn't really matter I suppose.

Yep that was it, now that I see it again it's a stretch for sure...

Back in 2003, Gary talked about an expanded Greyhawk globe on some old EN World threads, and was asked about what would have been included. Here's an internet archive link that includes that discussion.

Some quotes (Gary being "Col_Pladoh"):

Quote from: Col_PladohThe would would be a complete globe with more continents and states thereon with contributions from Len Lakofka and Francois Marcela-Froideval/

There would be several WoG sourcebooks detailing places such as the Great Kingdom, the "Barbarians (Frost, ice, Snow), " etc.

A major module would be done regarding the area around the Rift and the place proper. Another dealing with the Sea of Dust would be
done. Possibly adventures regarding the Scarlet Brotherhood and the Horned Society would be available. Likely a couple of more from
Len and Francois would be in the line.

There would be some "porrtal accessed" adventures, these likely found in a series of modules detailing more of the Underdark and the
Sunless Sea. The portals would lead to non-fantasy-genre settings.

In all, for every question answered regarding the world, at least one new one would be created and left unanswered, for my purpose
was to have a world that the DM could complete and customize as suited his group.

In all likelihood Castle Greyhawk and the City of Greyhawk would be available products.

That's it off the top of my head-first time I've actually gone to such detail in considering what I would likely have done.

Cheers,
Gary

Quote from: johnsemlak

QuoteThe old old be a complete globe with more continents and states thereon with contributions from Len Lakofka and Francois Marcela-
Froideval/

This is very interesting. I wonder, would have you used the 'R" series (R3, Egg of the Pheonix, et. al. (republished as 112)) by Frank Mentzer and
others to develop a continent opposite the Flanaess? My understanding is those modules were intented to have taken place in an undeveloped
part of Oerth.

Quote from: Col_Pladoh

QuoteThis is very interesting. I wonder, would have you used the 'R" series (R3, Egg of the Pheonix, et. at. (republished as 112)) by Frank
Mentzer and others to develop a continent opposite the Flanaess? My understanding is those modules were intented to have taken
place in an undeveloped part of Oerth.

The exact form of the remainder of the globe was not settled upon. I wanted an Atlantis-like continent, and possibly a Lemirian-type one. Likely
two large continents would have been added. The nearest would house cultures akin to the Indian, Burmese, Indonesian, Chinese, Tibetan, and
Japanese. Another would likely have been the location of African-type cultures, including the Egyptian. A Lemurian culture would have been
based off the Central and South American cultures of the Aztec-Mayay-lnca sort.

Quote from: Voros;993249I've heard this many times but when I checked out DF's downloads I found only Turcotte's material worthwhile, the rest was uninspired and mediocre, what did I miss? Any recommendations?

It's a hodge podge of varying quality. Nothing specific jumps to mind, but I've gotten use out of a few maps and mini-dungeons when I didn't have time to prep.

Of course, much of that is being done via blogs these days.

Quote from: Celestial;993459Especially since 2012.

I blame the Mayans!

Quote from: Willmark;992730Tim Kask- barely on DF.
Zeb Cook- gone from DF.
Frank-banned from DF.

I'm sure it's entirely their fault that the K&K Taliban on DF has had bad interactions with them.

Jesus.

Well, the three did make one mistake, hanging out on DF instead of theRPGsite.

Quote from: RPGPundit;995625Jesus.

Well, the three did make one mistake, hanging out on DF instead of theRPGsite.

I invited Frank here on FB. But.....we did what we always do and ruin things so if I were him, I wouldn't post here.

Quote from: RPGPundit;995625Jesus.

Well, the three did make one mistake, hanging out on DF instead of theRPGsite.

Or more accurately, they weren't 1e guys and were posting on a 1e fan site.

Tim Kask is perhaps the original "OD&D is the one true way and everything later is blasphemy" zealot.  He's almost as annoying as Gronan in that regard, except mercifully he's not such an attention whore.

Zeb Cook wrote 2e which fixed some of 1e's problems while introducing others and blandening the game. The latter probably wasn't his fault, but he still did it.  

And while Mentzer did do some 1e stuff, he was mostly notable for BECMI which is a step back from B/X in terms of rules, if not presentation. In the original Expert set, thieves were promised all sorts of new abilities in the Companion set, but Mentzer discarded that, took the easy way out by spreading thieves skills to 36 levels, not 14, making them even more useless (though I know, to the OD&D crowd, the existence of thieves in the first place is blasphemy)

Quote from: JeremyR;995786...though I know, to the OD&D crowd, the existence of thieves in the first place is blasphemy)

I kind of liked Thieves when they first came out. Made the game all kinds of new and interesting. Of course the first set of rules I had for thieves was from Greyhawk, and within a few weeks of that, we started playing with the thieves from Balboa games  The Complete Warlock as well as Thieves and Assasins from Dave Hargrave's Arduin books. My fav was the thieves from Warlock, becuase they had these special abilities tables, for example a third level thief had three First Level Abilities, as well as one Second Level ability, this was in addition to the normal thief skills such as picking locks, disarming traps, hiding in shadows, etc, a thief could choose these additional abilities from the following list;

First Level Abilities
1. Detect Evil
2. Detect Good
3. Detect Magic
4. Evaluate Treasure (Appraise)
5. Jimmy Portals
6. Pick Most Locks 2/3 (1-4d6)
7. Dagger +2
8. Short Sword +2
9. Sling +2
10. Sure Strike, Dagger x3
11. Detect Noise +1/6 (improved over a regular thief listening)
12. Hide in Shadows 50%
13. Jam Portals
14. Move more silently +1/6
15. Spot Hidden Items +1/6
16. Cheat at game of skill
17. Sleight of Hand 80%
18. Pilfer from backpacks/saddlebags 50%
19. Lie Convincingly
20. Map Deciphering
21. Read 1 Extra Language
22. Start Fires
23. Tie up with Rope.

Thieves could gain up to 6th level abilities as the gained levels, so were a very interesting character class to play if the GM allowed thieves from the Warlock rules set.

Grognards. You know what am I saying?

Also, Frank Mentzer should stop by and chat us up about his project. It sounds epic and likely worthy of discussion.

The world is not a peach place where everyone loves us and everyone is nice to us. But since it's all generally a giant dark pile of shit anyways why not soak in the light of a few people who like you?

Ignore the haters. Keep on keeping on.

Also, every time I read a thread about what D&D version is the best my nipples shrivel up. You know how there's a hierarchy of needs? Is there a hierarchy of absurdity? Like, you scroll down some spiritual checklist of shit you are going to take a stand on and somehow you get stuck on D&D version?

Heirarchy of Absurdity

• Existence
• Religion
• Nationality
• Sportsball Team
• Flooring
• Shoe Style
• Weather
• Lolipop Flavor
• Pubic Grooming
• Favorite Color
• D&D Version
• Hand used for masturbation

I don't fucking care if your THACO is right side up or upside down but GODDAMMIT you WILL NOT jerk off with your left hand or I swear in tarnation's glib tongue I'll grumble grumble fart splurt mumble...

Roll initiative.