Quote: "At the same time, that faith [in govt] turns out to be founded on a pack of lies. Reagan doesn't just free the hostages from Iran in 1981. Instead, in 1980, he negotiates for them to be held until his inauguration, to help him win the election."

Speaking of a pack of lies: consider the source.  In real life, this long-disproven conspiracy theory was first proposed by congressional democrats in the second half of the 1990s.   Well, the game does bill itself as set in "the 1980s that never were".

Does the game claim that actually happened, or is it just part of their gameworld's timeline? I would assume the latter, just as Twilight 2000 still has the Soviet Union in power after 1991.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 27, 2022, 10:32:29 PM
Does the game claim that actually happened, or is it just part of their gameworld's timeline? I would assume the latter, just as Twilight 2000 still has the Soviet Union in power after 1991.

If latter, the game needs to make that 100% clear. Something like, "Instead of X happening, Y does." Without a qualifying statement, it's a bald-faced lie.

Quote from: Effete on August 28, 2022, 01:54:14 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 27, 2022, 10:32:29 PM
Does the game claim that actually happened, or is it just part of their gameworld's timeline? I would assume the latter, just as Twilight 2000 still has the Soviet Union in power after 1991.

If latter, the game needs to make that 100% clear. Something like, "Instead of X happening, Y does." Without a qualifying statement, it's a bald-faced lie.

I never assume timelines in my game books are going to be historically accurate. Why would you?

I deducted that it was a lie, not an in-universe change, because 1) everything else in the history section tried to be actual accounting of 1980s history, 2) That was a real lie that was floating around for a short time in the 1990s, 3) The paragraph on Reagan was cynical to begin with, rather than objective, and 4) Nothing in the section indicted this was a rewrite of history. 

Also, 5) In my 1980s RPG, I go to great lengths to get the history correct, and assume a larger company would, too.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 28, 2022, 05:11:55 AM
I never assume timelines in my game books are going to be historically accurate. Why would you?

That would depend on the nature of the writing. If the paragraph heading was something like, "That all changed in 1980" or "The World is the Same, But History Isn't," then it'd be fine to write all the "false," alternate info as facts. If the book is mixing actual history with game history, then there's a potential for spreading lies (whether that was the author's intention or not).

Like OP mentioned, this was a real lie used to muck Reagan at a time when "Reagan-esque" republicans started to reemerge. It's possible the writer believed the lie as fact and was too stubborn to look beyond their own biases.

The other indicator would be a through-line for the change. What purpose would it serve the story to have Reagan "game" the electorate rather than just winning because people liked what he said (or because "Democrat" became synonymous with "Carter"  )? If there's no payoff or follow-through, it's another good indication they are presenting it as an actual fact of history.

OP is spot on. It is taken from a section around life in the 80's in America. Here is the referenced material, plus some other material presented:

Quote
The '80s is the era of Ronald Reagan, the former actor who becomes the nation's oldest-ever President by promising a "morning in America." It's a time when Americans want to have faith in their government re- stored to them after it's been shattered by Watergate and President Nixon's resignation. The threat of an imminent nuclear holocaust may cast a shadow over everything, but by the end of the decade, the Soviet Union is knocked onto the ropes, and it seems there's nothing America can't do.

At the same time, that faith turns out to be founded on a pack of lies. Reagan doesn't just free the hostages from Iran in 1981. Instead, in 1980, he negotiates for them to be held until his inauguration, to help him win the election.

Not too much later, the CIA refuses to obey Congress' ban on helping prop up the Contra rebels in Nicaragua. Congress also cuts off funding to CIA efforts to over- throw the Sandinistas in that war-torn nation, but CIA agents illegally procure their own funds for the cause by selling weapons to America's enemies in Iran instead.

There are 6-7 more paragraphs of this.

I own the product. I have played the game. It generally paints socialist Sweden with a more positive brush, contrasted by jabs on conservatives when discussing America. Where it does give U.S. credit are in areas never questioned, our celebrities and entertainment. So there is that.

For those who disagree, go scan the material. I'll help you, it starts on page 38. Come back here with two or three other examples of 'alternative history'.

Umm... seems the author just memory-holed an entire presidency between Nixon and Reagan (two of the most popular presidents in American history). What were people doing for six years after Nixon's resignation that they felt Reagan would restore their faith? It's almost like there was an entirely different reason for them to lose it... hmmm...

Quote from: Effete on August 28, 2022, 03:13:58 PM
Umm... seems the author just memory-holed an entire presidency between Nixon and Reagan (two of the most popular presidents in American history). What were people doing for six years after Nixon's resignation that they felt Reagan would restore their faith? It's almost like there was an entirely different reason for them to lose it... hmmm...

Yep, I never caught this the first time.  Also,to think about it, no one had their faith shattered with the Iran hostage negotiation lie,since it never happened! (It was Carter who shattered everyone's confidence, and by the way, people who put faith in government are doomed from the start.)  The more I read, the more I'm glad I borrowed this book from a friend rather than bought it. 

Quote from: Cathode Ray on August 28, 2022, 03:20:34 PM

Quote from: Effete on August 28, 2022, 03:13:58 PM
Umm... seems the author just memory-holed an entire presidency between Nixon and Reagan (two of the most popular presidents in American history). What were people doing for six years after Nixon's resignation that they felt Reagan would restore their faith? It's almost like there was an entirely different reason for them to lose it... hmmm...

Yep, I never caught this the first time.  Also,to think about it, no one had their faith shattered with the Iran hostage negotiation lie,since it never happened! (It was Carter who shattered everyone's confidence, and by the way, people who put faith in government are doomed from the start.)  The more I read, the more I'm glad I borrowed this book from a friend rather than bought it.

Why? Does the historical inaccuracy impact gameplay in some significant way?

The game is made by liberal Swedes; the same group ruined Twilight 2000 by making the war the fault of the West, specifically a "Trump in all but name" US President, and gems like Israel hating the Palestinians so much that they use nuclear weapons on the Gaza strip (you know, their own side yard).

With regard to Tales itself, I just ignore their bullshit and use the paranormal/Fortean events that come from fucking around with Loop tech and set the game in Central Florida in the 1980s, otherwise things are the same (well there's some differences: in the last TFTL game I ran on Free RPG Day, for example, the director of NASA in the 1980s was Gus Grissom, because I deleted the Apollo 1 fire).

Quote from: thedungeondelver on August 28, 2022, 04:14:38 PM
The game is made by liberal Swedes; the same group ruined Twilight 2000 by making the war the fault of the West, specifically a "Trump in all but name" US President, and gems like Israel hating the Palestinians so much that they use nuclear weapons on the Gaza strip (you know, their own side yard).

With regard to Tales itself, I just ignore their bullshit and use the paranormal/Fortean events that come from fucking around with Loop tech and set the game in Central Florida in the 1980s, otherwise things are the same (well there's some differences: in the last TFTL game I ran on Free RPG Day, for example, the director of NASA in the 1980s was Gus Grissom, because I deleted the Apollo 1 fire).

The new Twilight 2000 has a group of Soviet hardliners that succeeded in the 1991 coup seeking to keep the USSR intact, including retaking the Balkan states. Not sure how this is "the fault of the West" or how having culpability for engaging in a war of mutually assured destruction detracts from the themes of Twilight 2000 in the least.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 28, 2022, 04:22:59 PM
The new Twilight 2000 has a group of Soviet hardliners that succeeded in the 1991 coup seeking to keep the USSR intact, including retaking the Balkan states. Not sure how this is "the fault of the West" or how having culpability for engaging in a war of mutually assured destruction detracts from the themes of Twilight 2000 in the least.

Then they changed it significantly from early playtests.  I know some folks who were hardcore about T2k the way I am about 1e AD&D who got onto the playtests and they were so appalled by the writers obvious political direction they noped out.  Good to see they got their shit together then.

Quote from: thedungeondelver on August 28, 2022, 04:28:15 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 28, 2022, 04:22:59 PM
The new Twilight 2000 has a group of Soviet hardliners that succeeded in the 1991 coup seeking to keep the USSR intact, including retaking the Balkan states. Not sure how this is "the fault of the West" or how having culpability for engaging in a war of mutually assured destruction detracts from the themes of Twilight 2000 in the least.

Then they changed it significantly from early playtests.  I know some folks who were hardcore about T2k the way I am about 1e AD&D who got onto the playtests and they were so appalled by the writers obvious political direction they noped out.  Good to see they got their shit together then.

Sorry, that should have said "Baltic states." Also, they did have a hawkish US president that defeated Clinton's re-election, but the move towards war was basically everyone (except the Poles and Swedes...) being dicks.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 28, 2022, 04:12:45 PM
Why? Does the historical inaccuracy impact gameplay in some significant way?

Does it make it any less of a lie if it doesn't?

Impact on gameplay is irrelevant.