So apparently at Gencon WoTC's other big reveal, aside from their back catalog becoming available, was that they're once again "fixing" the realms, though I assume this time in the sense of "fixing the royal fuck up that was 4e FR"; and Ed Greenwood is their main man to do it. Apparently it'll take place with a series of novels Ed's writing called "The Sundering" (I think Salvatore is involved too?), and that after that there'll be some adventures that will claim to have an interactive-relationship with the people playing it posting feedback to Wizards and this deciding the course of the FR world (you know, unless they decide they really don't want to do that after all).
So does anyone have more info on this? Are they going to push a big "reset" button on the Realms, or what?
RPGPundit
Meh. I haven't read the Realms since 2e. Isn't Ed Greenwood under a lot of fire for being a sexist pig nowadays? I seem to recall a big what to do at TBP over that.
Well, one thing that might get 4ers to buy-in on a new Forgotten Realms after WotC kills their weird Bizarro version, would be if they could influence what happens. These are the "player empowerment" guys remember.
The Sundering sounds like the splitting of Abeir-Toril so it's actually one world now, and not just some lame excuse for letting you use whatever FotM Race they came up with.
Not so much a reset as a "Time of Troubles 2.0" resulting in a return to sanity.
Since Greenwood's at the helm, you can expect an awfulpurple Goon Op against WotC and Ed at some point I'm sure. ;)
I bet dollars to donuts that the books Salvator just wrote for the upcoming Neverwinter game are a preview of what to expect.
Let's just say a major city gets wiped off the map
And you thought the Time of Troubles was bad...
*sigh*
WotC will never learn.
...I hope everyone will forgive me if I wander ever-so-slightly off topic, but it's mentioned in this thread and I am totally lost on it.
What the hell is TBP? I've seen it ever since I started lurking here, but my GoogleFu avails me of nothing.
TBP = The Big Purple = RPGnet.
Quote from: Benoist;572876TBP = The Big Purple = RPGnet.
OH well no wonder I couldn't find anything on it. Thanks Benoist, a beer for your trouble. I deliver you back to the thread in progress.
I'm not too worried about it. Call me old school, but I'd be playing in my own homebrew campaign setting anyway
Why can't they just come out with a new realms?
Why jump through stupid hoops to make changes "in setting"?
It's as bad as the idiocy that infects comic books.
Quote from: Piestrio;572930Why can't they just come out with a new realms?
Why jump through stupid hoops to make changes "in setting"?
Because they think of the Realms as a fiction brand property.
Quote from: Piestrio;572930It's as bad as the idiocy that infects comic books.
Yes.
If you're going to change everything all over again, you might as well revert back to 1e grey box.
But of course, that would mean no new Drizzt novels, and it seems WotC would rather have people buying Drizzt novels, than people actually playing FR.
You know, if they actually got Ed Greenwood, you'd think they'd let him do HIS realms, finally.
I mean, I hope they do that and not some new bizarre mishmash that creates yet another epic clusterfuck in the realms making it even less playable as a setting.
I'm holding out a desperate hope that the "sundering" of which they speak will be some kind of megaevent that will create two separate parallel worlds: one that looks pretty much like the pre-4e realms, and another that looks something like the 4e setting that claimed to be the realms.
RPGPundit
There's an "edition-neutral" product by Ed Greenwood coming out in October called "Elminster's Forgotten Realms."
It appears to be a collection of personal notes and collected lore Greenwood has made for the setting over time, and put into a single sourcebook. (http://www.amazon.com/Greenwood-Presents-Elminsters-Forgotten-Realms/dp/0786960345)
Seminar Transcript of upcoming 2012 products:
QuoteNext we have Elminster's Forgotten Realms in Quarter 4. We basically went to Ed and said hey, why don't you take all your campaign notes, all the information you've been putting together for your FR campaign and lets compile it into a book. Show us the realms as you've developed it in your campaign setting and lets get that to everybody. It's our celebration of the Forgotten Realms and pulling back the curtain to show you what the designer of the campaign setting has done.
Quote from: The Butcher;572869And you thought the Time of Troubles was bad...
The books certainly were.
Im fine with time of troubles based on the story (it's not great, but it isn't that bad). What I thought was assanine was the reason for it: to conver the "in game" stuff from one edition to another.
What's I'm hoping is that the Sundering is akin to how Britannia was shattered into multiple "shards" for Ultima Online. An official campaign world where there's this explicit caveat along the lines of:
"There are countless parallel worlds of the Realms after the Sundering; no two are exactly the same. The Realms that you adventure in will not necessarily confirm to what official published material and novels state, and due to the Sundering that is exactly what the official status of the Realms are now. Your DMs version of the Realms is what they make of it and it is "official"."
So a DM can run their game in the Realms without worrying about knowing all of the Realms minutiae and needing access to every Realms resource or having to deal with Canon Lawyer players going "Actually in the Realms..."
The same way how in the Wilderlands community you have the Original JG Wilderlands, Necromancer Wilderlands, Majestic Wilderlands, Gabor/Melan's Wilderlands, James Mishler's Wilderlands, Scott Z'a Wilderlands of Darkling Sorcery, etc. and there's not a "Right" or "Wrong" Wilderlands, just a setting for DMs to run fantasy adventures as they see fit.
I found this to be a fun, light read with some good ideas for a campaign world: http://www.amazon.com/The-Shattered-World-Michael-Reaves/dp/067155951
Nothing says shattered better then a world that was... shattered.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;572880I'm not too worried about it. Call me old school, but I'd be playing in my own homebrew campaign setting anyway
Eh, I played my homebrew Forgotten Realms setting anyway ^^
FR 4E were so dire that I would even forgive WotC if they pull a "Dallas" and announce that "it was all a dream".
Quote from: Reckall;573997Eh, I played my homebrew Forgotten Realms setting anyway ^^
FR 4E were so dire that I would even forgive WotC if they pull a "Dallas" and announce that "it was all a dream".
As would I.
RPGPundit
Neverwinter was a pretty good book, but I have never seen any FR book of any edition that wow'd me. It's a meh setting. It's D&D for people who don't have time to write a home campaign.
Quote from: Planet Algol;573798What's I'm hoping is that the Sundering is akin to how Britannia was shattered into multiple "shards" for Ultima Online.
I expect something like this.
That said, people want to move forward in timelines so 5e is going to have to have its own FR era to support its own LFR campaign.
Quote from: The Butcher;572976If you're going to change everything all over again, you might as well revert back to 1e grey box.
But of course, that would mean no new Drizzt novels, and it seems WotC would rather have people buying Drizzt novels, than people actually playing FR.
Well, when every new Driz'zt novel, by itself, outsells the entire FR gaming library, what do you expect?
Why bother with the RPG version then?
I fail to see how people is still interested in FR, it being the blandest setting ever and its novels being some of the most atrocious pieces of shit ever perpetrated. Specially the Salvatore and Greenwood ones.
Quote from: Imperator;574664I fail to see how people is still interested in FR, it being the blandest setting ever and its novels being some of the most atrocious pieces of shit ever perpetrated. Specially the Salvatore and Greenwood ones.
Speaking strictly for myself: nostalgia. The beautiful, lush 2e books and the dozen or so PC games set in the Realms all left a lasting impression on my young mind.
NPCs like Drizzt and Elminster and The Simbul can go fuck themselves, though (which incidentally is probably what Ed Greenwood would have them do anyway). They are uninteresting NPCs for which I don't think I'd have any use as a DM.
In 2 editions I went from "could anything pull me away from D&D?" to "could anything pull me back in?"
Yeesh.
I heard a rumor that WotC contracted out to a (chinese or korean) video game art studio for the concept art, in order to have a few compotent art directors decide on a unified look-and-feel.
Quote from: Imperator;574664I fail to see how people is still interested in FR, it being the blandest setting ever and its novels being some of the most atrocious pieces of shit ever perpetrated. Specially the Salvatore and Greenwood ones.
While I do not disagree with the statement that Forgotten Realms is bland and terrible, I enjoyed Salvatore's novels about the origins of Drizzt (I guess that would be his second series about Drizzt?) because they helped me envision just how a society based on evil could actually exist. The standard DnD alignment system made that impossible for me to understand.
Also, the Greenwood books were TERRIBLE. Horrible writer. I wouldn't even call it juvenile, just bad writing. However, I first read them when I was 30, and not 12, like most people who read them. Maybe that's the problem.
I'm guessing the whole reason that they aren't doing a whole Batman Begins or Star Trek is to do with the novels. You see there are people out there who just buy those and perhaps would wonder what the fuck happend if that did occur..
I haven't played or indeed read any for the Realms since second edition. Indeed, mainly 1st edition. However, I find myself after hearing about these new Sundering books suddenly quite excited. Strangely, after watching these videos I was amazed at how WOTC seem to have finally got it:
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypn_j9ZEtPA&feature=youtu.be)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um2dmlD5lKk)
Just to note the above videos are by the art director guy Jon Schindehette. He talks about the art for Forgotten Realms; creating a world bible for it. One thing that is great is that Halflings look like fucking Hobbits again; well almost!
Normally I'm in the homebrew camp. BUT if they do produce this Forgotten Realms bible, remove dragonboobies and other such nonsense then you'll have something that you couldn't produce yourself! It would be amazing at the gaming table; all that detail and culture; very anthropological and 'grown-up'?
If they don't do some kind of reset of the Realms, specifically undoing the 4e butcher-job on the realms, it'll be a terrible mistake.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;575857If they don't do some kind of reset of the Realms, specifically undoing the 4e butcher-job on the realms, it'll be a terrible mistake.
RPGPundit
If they are pulling from the two recent novels by Salvatore (used as prequels for the Neverwinter game coming out), then Port Llast is gone. Wiped out. Along with a few other areas that I imagine will be completely redone.
And so the saga of Shit Novel-induced Metaplot continues...
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;576512And so the saga of Shit Novel-induced Metaplot continues...
RPGPundit
At the Keynote they promised that this would be the last time.
Not sure what that's worth but there it is.
Quote from: Piestrio;576613At the Keynote they promised that this would be the last time.
Not sure what that's worth but there it is.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25568813.jpg)
Quote from: Piestrio;576613At the Keynote they promised that this would be the last time.
Not sure what that's worth but there it is.
If I printed it out and used it as toilet paper, that'd be the value right there.
RPGPundit
Here's the take on the Sundering from Paul S. Kemp (http://paulskemp.com/blog/the-sundering/), one of the authors contributing to the six book series that will follow the event.
So, the six books of The Sundering are as follows:
The Companions, by R.A. Salvatore
The Godborn, by Paul S. Kemp
The Adversary, by Erin M. Evans
The Reaver, by Richard Lee Byers
The Sentinel, by Troy Denning
The Herald, by Ed Greenwood.
Quote from: Paul S. KempMy Thoughts About the Sundering and the Realms
What follows is entirely my own opinion/interpretation.
So, the events in the Forgotten Realms that precipitated the switch to the fourth edition of Dungeons and Dragons created a lot of controversy. The Spellplague changed the Realms in profound ways, as the worlds of Abeir and Toril "intermixed." New continents and realms appeared, and old ones disappeared. Magic was changed. Many gods seemed to die or disappear. New races of beings appeared. The timeline for game products and novels was advanced 100 years. And the upshot of all of this was that the Realms post-Spellplague was a very different place from the Realms pre-Spellplague.
Now, lots of people liked the new Realms and still do. Lots of people didn't and still don't. What's indisputable is that the post-Spellplague Realms was a very different place, with a very different feel, from pre-Spellplague Realms.
So, what did I think about this? I think I would have loved the post-Spellplague Realms if it wasn't supposed to be the Realms, but was instead some new world invented from scratch. The cataclysm of the Spellplague and its aftermath (spell-scarred and plague-changed creatures and lands), lots of faiths whose gods had just 'died,' created a rich setting with lots of storytelling opportunities. Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn't a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.
To me, the post-Spellplague Realms felt unmoored from the setting material that had sold me on the Realms in the first place, way back in the time of the grey box. I have a hard time articulating why. The Realms isn't post-apocalyptic or relentlessly dark. For me it's about a layered setting rich in history and detail, fat with mysteries unplumbed, shrouded in a sense of wonder that invites you to come on in and adventure. It is, in the end, optimistic. Somehow the post-Spellplague Realms never spoke to me that way.
Consider this, from the DM's Sourcebook of the Realms, in the original Forgotten Realms grey box, in a section called, "Recent News and Rumors in the Realms:"
Barroch's Hold has been found. The fabled citadel of the first great bandit lord of the Inner Sea lies south and east of the cities of the Moonsea, in the Glacier of the White Worm. The adventurers who found it encountered a number of strange creatures and were scattered or slain. Two survivors reached Orm to tell the tale: Feenoch the Five-Fingered, a rogue of some infamy, and Yostur Ulhmond, a young fighter from the villages of the Snow People in Thar, blond-haired and strong as an ox. The two evaded queries about treasure, but there is talk in Hillsfar that they have been trying to gather together a large adventuring band with sledges.
That's magic for me, just magic, and there are dozens just like it in the same section. That single paragraph communicates the idea of the Realms as a living, breathing, high fantasy world of interconnected people and events where the wondrous sometimes occurs right alongside the mundane. I love that kind of feel. That's the feel of the Realms for me.
And based on all my discussions with the folks involved in the Sundering, that's the vibe to which we're circling back. The "Core Truth of the Realms" is a concept that I heard mentioned several times by those involved in the Sundering, and it's necessarily a subjective term. But based on the discussions that I've heard and participated in, everyone is circling around the same guiding star — the roots of the Realms, its essence, its core. YMMV, of course, but for me that essence looks a lot like an adventuring company getting nearly wiped out in Barroch's Hold, with the survivors, led by Feenoch Five-Fingers, returning to Hillsfar to drum up some additional blades and have another go at whatever dark creatures nearly killed them the first time.
In any event, I think the Realms are moving quickly and assuredly in the right direction. People seem to be in the right seat on the bus (with Ed Greenwood driving, while regaling us with tales of yore). WotC has listened and is listening to readers and players who love the Realms. The upshot is that I'm pleased, excited, and honored to be part of it.
Sounds like at least one of the authors gets it, or at least has read enough to cut and paste from someone's blog. :D
Metaplot gets a bad rap. Metaplot is living, breathing world. It's what would happen if the PCs don't get involved. It looks at the world as if the PCs weren't the sole reason for its existence. A.Good.Thing.
The problem is that some authors don't get that "The Realms" as they write it is the version that never survives contact with the DM, and the DM's altered version of that never survives contact with the PCs. So they go FULL.ELMINSTER. Full.Elminster, unfortunately, moves a lot of novels and setting supplements.
Quote from: CRKrueger;577607The problem is that some authors don't get that.
Well, authors are not deciding what changes are being made, WotC is deciding what changes will be made, and how much each author is allowed to effect the world with their story, though Ed was undoubtedly in on this one... (a good thing IMHO) WotC is being run by a corporation, and they are running it like a corporation. The corporate idea is: to make money, we need new product, and that means change. It's pretty much that simple.
Well, it gives me some hope. Its cowardly that they don't just do a blank restart; but it sounds like what they're trying to do is a "reboot without a reboot". Let's hope it goes far enough.
RPGPundit
They're not about to walk away from a multi million dollar novel line for the sake of a game world reboot. R.A. Salvatore has more than 20 NYT bestsellers, and is probably making WotC more money than their gaming books at this point. They have shut down many of their other "worlds" for lack of revenue generation on associated products, but Realms is still making them money.
The Corporate Mind... not the best for the game, but the safest for their investments. This way they get to keep RA's book line, and make changes in the game.
Seriously, The Realms has not really been fully explored by their products yet. This is one thing I think Paizo is doing better with Pathfinder, they're exploring all of their world with their modules, supplements and novels...or plan to. MHO... But they are not run by a corporation, either. They even ask fans what they would like to see next, and take their suggestions seriously...gotta like that.
Quote from: CAJackson;577614Well, authors are not deciding what changes are being made, WotC is deciding what changes will be made, and how much each author is allowed to effect the world with their story, though Ed was undoubtedly in on this one... (a good thing IMHO) WotC is being run by a corporation, and they are running it like a corporation. The corporate idea is: to make money, we need new product, and that means change. It's pretty much that simple.
I dont know if this has come up, by RA Salvatore mentioned in a recent GMS podcast interview that he and the other writers are able to give more input on the realms setting this time around. He did also say they pretty much have to work with whatever wotc decides but it sounds like there have been periods where they are more open to suggestions and ideas from him and the other writers.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;578284I dont know if this has come up, by RA Salvatore mentioned in a recent GMS podcast interview that he and the other writers are able to give more input on the realms setting this time around. He did also say they pretty much have to work with whatever wotc decides but it sounds like there have been periods where they are more open to suggestions and ideas from him and the other writers.
By "this time around" did you mean the 4e realms, or the upcoming 5e realms?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;578482By "this time around" did you mean the 4e realms, or the upcoming 5e realms?
RPGPundit
My impression, and maybe this interpretation was in part due to my own bias against 4E, is he was essentially saying that they had very little say during 4E (possibly during 3E as well as he spoke very generalky about previous versions of the realms) but have been given a lot of input on 5E. I believe it was one or two episodes back on the GMS podcast (maybe midway through the interview). It was pretty well done.
The primary core of authors, and many of the long-time game designers, who have worked on D&D as freelance contributors are getting a bit more respect of late... There was quiet a kerfuffle recently about "input", and although the corporate mind is still difficult to work with, they have become more open, in both game design and realms input. And hopefully, not treating their contributors like "fanboys"... Although the final say on any "contributions" is still under the control of the management guys at WotC...
The primary person to thank for this, I believe, is R.A. Salvatore. His clout with his popularity carries a lot of weight.
Quote from: CAJackson;578587The primary core of authors, and many of the long-time game designers, who have worked on D&D as freelance contributors are getting a bit more respect of late... There was quiet a kerfuffle recently about "input", and although the corporate mind is still difficult to work with, they have become more open, in both game design and realms input. And hopefully, not treating their contributors like "fanboys"... Although the final say on any "contributions" is still under the control of the management guys at WotC...
The primary person to thank for this, I believe, is R.A. Salvatore. His clout with his popularity carries a lot of weight.
I have to say he always impressives me in interviews. Very down to earth.
Like Salvatore gives a shit about the setting; he sells books, he doesn't play games. If something in the D&D game gets in the way of what he wants to write, guess what, he ignores that shit because game rules make for a shitty book.
And Ed Greenwood is creepy as shit and is a very mediocre writer at best. Salvatore's no great author but he's apparently a cool guy and writes fight scenes incredibly well; Greenwood is just a supercreep who puts self-inserts of himself everywhere to have pretend sex with everyone that stands still for fifteen seconds.
Quote from: Darwinism;578779Like Salvatore gives a shit about the setting; he sells books, he doesn't play games. If something in the D&D game gets in the way of what he wants to write, guess what, he ignores that shit because game rules make for a shitty book.
And Ed Greenwood is creepy as shit and is a very mediocre writer at best. Salvatore's no great author but he's apparently a cool guy and writes fight scenes incredibly well; Greenwood is just a supercreep who puts self-inserts of himself everywhere to have pretend sex with everyone that stands still for fifteen seconds.
Once again, you are wrong. Salvator is a gamer. From an interview on reddit last month:
Quote from: SalvatorWell, for board games and tabletop, there's Risk, War and Peace and of course, D&D (with a little GURPS thrown in). It's funny because I still play 1st Edition.
As for Greenwood, do you have an opinion of your own, or just parroting the SA goons?
*Edit* And really him being creepy isn't relevant to him being there. If he were really as bad as your hyperbole would suggest, do you think WoTC would have him front and center? He's there because he created Forgotten Realms, and that setting sells, whether you like it or not. Since he's the creator of a setting that is the most popular ever, he must have done something right.
Quote from: Darwinism;578779Like Salvatore gives a shit about the setting; he sells books, he doesn't play games. If something in the D&D game gets in the way of what he wants to write, guess what, he ignores that shit because game rules make for a shitty book.
And Ed Greenwood is creepy as shit and is a very mediocre writer at best. Salvatore's no great author but he's apparently a cool guy and writes fight scenes incredibly well; Greenwood is just a supercreep who puts self-inserts of himself everywhere to have pretend sex with everyone that stands still for fifteen seconds.
Salvatore is a gamer. He has mentioned it in plenty of interviews. In fact I believe he games with a number of other writer-designers from the boston area.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;578781As for Greenwood, do you have an opinion of your own, or just parroting the SA goons?
*Edit* And really him being creepy isn't relevant to him being there. If he were really as bad as your hyperbole would suggest, do you think WoTC would have him front and center? He's there because he created Forgotten Realms, and that setting sells, whether you like it or not. Since he's the creator of a setting that is the most popular ever, he must have done something right.
C'mon, Sacrosanct, one wouldn't have to be a goon or goon-poser to assess that Greenwood is a mediocre (fiction?) writer, or to have heard about "who's banging whom" in the Greenwood Home Version of the Realms, that's been in several interviews over the years.
I agree that Greenwood's touch is somehow magical for sales, over and above whatever positive qualities he brings to his game materials (and no matter what else we may think of him as a novelist or general oddball, a lot of the original FR material is nice). The dude's an idea factory much of the time, even if some of 'em are misses rather than hits; combine that with the "ooh! Faerun! Ooh! Greenwood!" fan club and it's $$$.
Quote from: VectorSigma;578792C'mon, Sacrosanct, one wouldn't have to be a goon or goon-poser to assess that Greenwood is a mediocre (fiction?) writer, or to have heard about "who's banging whom" in the Greenwood Home Version of the Realms, that's been in several interviews over the years.
I agree that Greenwood's touch is somehow magical for sales, over and above whatever positive qualities he brings to his game materials (and no matter what else we may think of him as a novelist or general oddball, a lot of the original FR material is nice). The dude's an idea factory much of the time, even if some of 'em are misses rather than hits; combine that with the "ooh! Faerun! Ooh! Greenwood!" fan club and it's $$$.
Hell, NYT Best Seller's not that huge of an honor when Sue Grafton and Stephen King regularly get it.
Greenwood being popular is really, really understandable; he's a fairly bad author that writes about chubby old self-inserts sleeping with 18-year-old thieves and wizards and goddesses and anything else with a pulse. Same reason cheesecake has such a strong hold. Desperate nerds are desperate nerds.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;578781As for Greenwood, do you have an opinion of your own, or just parroting the SA goons?
Darwinism ISN'T an SA goon?
JG
What strikes me with the names dropped as the people who will (re)do Forgotten Realms is that it's old people. People who were round doing games, worlds and books in the 80s &90s, which makes me ask, who are WoTC trying to woe with this "new" Forgotten Realms? "Old" gamers that we around back when FR came out or new/younger gamers?
It seems to me, that the old target group will be very hard to please, no matter what, and that the younger group might not be as interested in a world created by weird seniors, whos cred is rather ancient, like Greenwood.
And is it just me or is "The Sundering" a really terrible name?
Quote from: Darwinism;579046Hell, NYT Best Seller's not that huge of an honor when Sue Grafton and Stephen King regularly get it.
So King is a hack, too? Um... just because you do not care for an author's style or form, doesn't mean his/her work is "bad". Being an NYT Bestseller is not the same type of honor as a Nebula or a Hugo, but it means your fans like your work. I'll grant, there are a few stinkers on the list **cough** 50 shades **cough** but when an author turns out consistently high-selling work and earns the respect of their peers, as King has, maybe it's time to look at your own assessment of their work more critically.
Ed Greenwood is incredibly creative. He is also incredibly prolific, and a workhorse for WotC, not to mention a very giving and generous writer, willing to help his co-writers and others. Self-centered? You have obviously never met the man. He is, and will admit himself, that he is not a top notch novelist, but again, his creativity
is top notch. For WotC to make changes in the Realms without his consultation is frankly stupid. When they started treating Ed like crap, RA told them that if Ed walked away, he would also walk away, and take Drizzt with him... The corporate wigs backed off. Kudos to RA for standing up for the man to whom he owes virtually everything.
As a general rule, below the level of major contributors and game design pros like RA and Ed, respectively, novelists don't make world changes on their own initiative. Rule: you get to play in the sandbox, but you can't break the toys.
Quote from: Darwinism;579046Hell, NYT Best Seller's not that huge of an honor when Sue Grafton and Stephen King regularly get it.
Nerd hipsterism is the most annoying kind of hipsterism.
Quote from: Piestrio;579093Nerd hipsterism is the most annoying kind of hipsterism.
Hating hipsters is getting too mainstream. I used to too, but it was before people were calling them that.
Quote from: Panzerkraken;579094Hating hipsters is getting too mainstream. I used to too, but it was before people were calling them that.
We're circling back around.
It's like the Ouroboros only instead of a snake forever devouring itself its a geek forever shoving his head up his own ass.
I skipped 4e FR, but my 3e is pretty similar to all the other crap.
Tell me, what happened to 4e FR that made it the Bizarro version?
Quote from: Blackhand;579115I skipped 4e FR, but my 3e is pretty similar to all the other crap.
Tell me, what happened to 4e FR that made it the Bizarro version?
They moved the time line on a lot, so its about 100 years (?) later. Taking a complicated setting and making it even more complex. Lots of people's favourite NPCs are now dead - Lots of people's least favourite NPC's are just fine.
A huge new land mass shows up... basically from another dimension and wipes out the continent that is already there.
A thing called the 'Spellplague' (a contender for the worst name ever) fucks over everybody's magic to explain why 4th edition wizards are so crap.
Loads of gods die, mainly from stupidity and acting somewhat out of character.
I think they also wiped out Candlekeep, which many realms fan's took as a massive 'Fuck You'. (as it's the name of the most popular FR forums).
Quote from: jadrax;579163They moved the time line on a lot, so its about 100 years (?) later. Taking a complicated setting and making it even more complex. Lots of people's favourite NPCs are now dead - Lots of people's least favourite NPC's are just fine.
A huge new land mass shows up... basically from another dimension and wipes out the continent that is already there.
A thing called the 'Spellplague' (a contender for the worst name ever) fucks over everybody's magic to explain why 4th edition wizards are so crap.
Loads of gods die, mainly from stupidity and acting somewhat out of character.
I think they also wiped out Candlekeep, which many realms fan's took as a massive 'Fuck You'. (as it's the name of the most popular FR forums).
4e itself was WotC flushing all previous customers down the toilet to the giggling of their marketing staff, the 4e Realms was WotC telling those customers it should have rather curbstomped them, then prison-raped the corpses.
Quote from: jadrax;579163I think they also wiped out Candlekeep, which many realms fan's took as a massive 'Fuck You'. (as it's the name of the most popular FR forums).
Nice, did not know this. Haven't even really looked at the realms past 2nd ed.
Quote from: Blackhand;579115I skipped 4e FR, but my 3e is pretty similar to all the other crap.
Tell me, what happened to 4e FR that made it the Bizarro version?
As with the Time of Troubles needing to adjust the AD&D Realms to 2nd Edition standard (no assassins, for instance, so no Bhaal), 4E Realms was basically Wizards trying to fit the many-shaped pegs of Forgotten Realms into the round hole that was 4th Edition.
JG
Quote from: jadrax;579163They moved the time line on a lot, so its about 100 years (?) later. Taking a complicated setting and making it even more complex. Lots of people's favourite NPCs are now dead - Lots of people's least favourite NPC's are just fine.
A huge new land mass shows up... basically from another dimension and wipes out the continent that is already there.
A thing called the 'Spellplague' (a contender for the worst name ever) fucks over everybody's magic to explain why 4th edition wizards are so crap.
Loads of gods die, mainly from stupidity and acting somewhat out of character.
I think they also wiped out Candlekeep, which many realms fan's took as a massive 'Fuck You'. (as it's the name of the most popular FR forums).
Don't forget Dragonborn and Tieflings both getting jammed into the setting as core races, both with revised fluff. Also now with ancient empires we've never heard of before, in a setting which already had e.g. detailed histories of every lost dwarven kingdom that was big enough to have its own mead hall.
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;579088What strikes me with the names dropped as the people who will (re)do Forgotten Realms is that it's old people.
It seems to me, that the old target group will be very hard to please, no matter what, and that the younger group might not be as interested in a world created by weird seniors, whos cred is rather ancient, like Greenwood.
And is it just me or is "The Sundering" a really terrible name?
Old people? Who would you rather GM your session, someone with 30 years of gaming experience, or someone who has been doing it for only 5 years and can't spell? Greenwood is hardly ancient... in his 50's... But then, when I was 15, I thought 50 was old... You suggest they make changes to a gaming world without the input of the man who created it?
And the last bit: it's you.
Quote from: CAJackson;579339Old people? Who would you rather GM your session, someone with 30 years of gaming experience, or someone who has been doing it for only 5 years and can't spell? Greenwood is hardly ancient... in his 50's... But then, when I was 15, I thought 50 was old... You suggest they make changes to a gaming world without the input of the man who created it?
And the last bit: it's you.
Well, Ed Greenwood is hardly coming round my house to DM, is he?
I think it's swell that he is on board and apparenty/perhaps gets to do the stuff he intended to do with his own creation, but I still question who will be the target audience for this, and to what degree a guy like Greenwood, would mean anything to a younger audience?
And ok, that's fine by me. I owuld have voted for something less like: Forgotten Realms: The Bloodening (http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/The_Bloodening).
Quote from: CAJackson;579339Old people? Who would you rather GM your session, someone with 30 years of gaming experience, or someone who has been doing it for only 5 years and can't spell?
.
No kidding. It would be like saying, "Who wants a guy like Dean Koontz to be the author of a story. He's old. You should have Stephanie Meyer instead because of the target audience."
Quote from: DKChannelBoredom;579088the younger group might not be as interested in a world created by weird seniors, whos cred is rather ancient, like Greenwood.
I suspect most costumers, regardless of age, just want something that doesn't suck and don't really care how old the designers are.
Quote from: Dimitrios;579356I suspect most costumers, regardless of age, just want something that doesn't suck and don't really care how old the designers are.
Absolutely, and hopefully this new/old team can do that.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;579353No kidding. It would be like saying, "Who wants a guy like Dean Koontz to be the author of a story. He's old. You should have Stephanie Meyer instead because of the target audience."
Well said... The idea that someone over 50 cannot create something appealing to an audience under 20 is ludicrous.
And... "The Bloodening" ?? Is that a joke? Anyway, corporate undoubtedly gets the call on the name of the "event".
Agreed that most fans don't really care who does the work, as long as the next version (both of the Realms and the game) is a step up...
Quote from: Darwinism;579046Hell, NYT Best Seller's not that huge of an honor when Sue Grafton and Stephen King regularly get it.
Subjectively, you can make that arguement; how Stephanie Meyer has NYT Best Seller books (plural) boggles my mind, but Objectively, it's a hell of a milestone to hit, and trying to denigrate it only highlights your own ignorance to the reality of publishing.
I think anyone on this board, would love to be able to add to their resume: "NYT Best Selling Author".
Quote from: CAJackson;579660And... "The Bloodening" ?? Is that a joke? Anyway, corporate undoubtedly gets the call on the name of the "event".
Well, "The Dickening" is probably too much Truth In Advertising, for the corporate type.
Quote from: Novastar;579671Subjectively, you can make that arguement; how Stephanie Meyer has NYT Best Seller books (plural) boggles my mind, but Objectively, it's a hell of a milestone to hit, and trying to denigrate it only highlights your own ignorance to the reality of publishing.
I think anyone on this board, would love to be able to add to their resume: "NYT Best Selling Author".
Well, "The Dickening" is probably too much Truth In Advertising, for the corporate type.
Not to mention 50 Shades of Gray... but yeah, I wouldn't mind that line in my resume. Might not be an "honor" but the financial bonus and the message to publishers that you are marketable is priceless... Yet another reason WotC will never stop publishing RA Salvatore's books.
Quote from: CAJackson;579970Not to mention 50 Shades of Gray... but yeah, I wouldn't mind that line in my resume. Might not be an "honor" but the financial bonus and the message to publishers that you are marketable is priceless... Yet another reason WotC will never stop publishing RA Salvatore's books.
"50 Shades of Drow"
Quote from: RPGPundit;572846Apparently it'll take place with a series of novels Ed's writing called "The Sundering" (I think Salvatore is involved too?)
Just once I'd like to see someone execute a continuity rollback by just saying, "Ya know what? We goofed. That shit never happened and we're going back to before we made those stupid choices."
Instead everybody feels a need to execute some sort of big, complicated meta-event which only makes their continuity more knotted and ridiculous.
Or, if that's too much to ask, just have Mystra step out of the shower. Elminster says, "Wow. That was a weird fucking dream." And then move on.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;580294Just once I'd like to see someone execute a continuity rollback by just saying, "Ya know what? We goofed. That shit never happened and we're going back to before we made those stupid choices."
Oh, like DC Comics did at least twice.
JG
Quote from: James Gillen;580635Oh, like DC Comics did at least twice.
JG
Well, sort of. They rebooted, which is as close as you get to an admission of guilt or failure in this industry.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Novastar;579671I think anyone on this board, would love to be able to add to their resume: "NYT Best Selling Author".
I'm a Writers Guild of America Award Nominee for "Assassin's Creed: Revelations" and it was not that hard. It is useful when I want to boast about myself, though.
Quote from: Justin Alexander;580294Just once I'd like to see someone execute a continuity rollback by just saying, "Ya know what? We goofed. That shit never happened and we're going back to before we made those stupid choices."
Instead everybody feels a need to execute some sort of big, complicated meta-event which only makes their continuity more knotted and ridiculous.
Or, if that's too much to ask, just have Mystra step out of the shower. Elminster says, "Wow. That was a weird fucking dream." And then move on.
I think highlander III tried to do that :)
I tend to agree though. If something was unpopular enough, they ought to erase it rather than make it part of the historical cannon.
Quote from: RPGPundit;581151Well, sort of. They rebooted, which is as close as you get to an admission of guilt or failure in this industry.
RPGPundit
The problem is that they "reboot" but then shove every last bit of the old into the new lest their man-children fans throw a tantrum.
Marvel and DC both do this.
Look at the Ultimates line, it started out so promising but then before 6 months had gone by basically every bit of retarded "continuity" had been put right back in.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;581159I think highlander III tried to do that :)
What the fuck? There were no sequels to the Highlander movie. Especially not with hoverboards and alien immortals and bullshit. There COULD be only one. Get your facts straight, mate. ;)
Movies? I only remember a TV series...
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;581417Movies? I only remember a TV series...
RPGPundit
...and the last 2 seasons are kind of fuzzy, at that. :p
Quote from: Novastar;581818...and the last 2 seasons are kind of fuzzy, at that. :p
Quite.
Quote from: RPGPundit;575857If they don't do some kind of reset of the Realms, specifically undoing the 4e butcher-job on the realms, it'll be a terrible mistake.
RPGPundit
What happened to the Realms in 4e?
Quote from: Randaconda;585019What happened to the Realms in 4e?
That's kinda what we've been talking about.
JG
Quote from: Randaconda;585019What happened to the Realms in 4e?
The most egregious change was that it time warped 100 years into the future, but also a new continent popped up to account for the new races in 4e, and there was a 'spellplague' that explains why spellcasting isn't "vancian" anymore.
So basically the Time of Troubles on crack.
Quote from: Randaconda;585019What happened to the Realms in 4e?
They shot the timeline ahead 100 years, killed off a huge number of the gods, removed entire sections of the geography that they replaced with others, and retconned the existence and tremendous importance of races like the dragonborn, all just to try to remake FR into a "points of light" setting for 4e. It sucked ass!
RPGpundit