Greetings!

When Alexander the Great led his army of some 50,000 troops to victory against the Persian Emperor Darius at Persepolis--Persepolis was one of the capital cities of the Persian Empire--Alexander te Great captured the Persian Emperor's treasury. 197,000 TONNES OF GOLD. A similiar amount of SILVER. Each TALENT amounted to I think the lifetime wages of a dozen skilled craftsmen. There were unimaginable amounts of other dazzling treasures--gold armour, jeweled weapons, rich robes--alabaster, silks, crowns, diadems, treasures of every kind, and beyond counting.

Alexander the Great decreed that each and every soldier in his army was permitted to take all that they desired. Anything, and everything--as much as they could carry. Each of Alexander's soldiers was also gifted with multiple slaves from their conquests. Each soldier--regardless of rank--was instantly made as rich as any king. In one decree, Alexander the Great literally influenced entire societies and generational dynasties FOR CENTURIES. Some of these Macedonian soldiers went on to establish themselves as KINGS in Central Asia, Bactria, and India--establishing fantastic and rich aristocratic dynasties that flourished and ruled for hundreds of years--many generations. These are of course in addition to the new-moneyed kings and princes that were established throughout Egypt, Persia, Anatolia, and back home in Macedon and Greece. Eye-witnesses testified that the wealth was so incredible and unimaginably plentiful--that Alexander the Great had no care for it whatesoever, so long as all of his men got rewarded with everything they desired. His reward, of course, was being the new Emperor of Persia, and the Master of all Asia.

Slaves, women, animals, gold, jewels, finery and clothing, trinkets, and beatuful trinkets beyond belief were handed out by the wagonfull. Talk about EPIC TREASURE!

Think about the social and financial ramifications of such an event. The common soldier of Alexander's army gained more wealth than any previous prince or King in Macedon or Greece, of any kingdom, anywhere had ever possessed. That is how rich each man was made. The instant wealth transfer was staggering, and literally affected entire societies for hundreds of years.

Consider how such an event like that would affect your campaign's local area, or how it would impact entirely new areas? After all, many Macedonians and Greek soldiers went on to establish entire fortresses, grand palaces, and fully-equipped and furnished CITIES. ENTIRE CITIES WERE ESTABLISHED.

Isn't that wild and fantastic?

I am often inspired by such real events in history when working on my world of Thandor. As the saying goes, "Reality is Stranger than Fiction."

Pretty awesome stuff, I think!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on July 30, 2023, 09:17:56 PM
When Alexander the Great led his army of some 50,000 troops to victory against the Persian Emperor Darius at Persepolis--Persepolis was one of the capital cities of the Persian Empire--Alexander te Great captured the Persian Emperor's treasury. 197,000 TONNES OF GOLD.

That seems impossible https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-much-gold-has-been-found-world#:~:text=About%20244%2C000%20metric%20tons%20of,reserves%20of%2057%2C000%20metric%20tons).

About 244,000 metric tons of gold has been discovered to date (187,000 metric tons historically produced plus current underground reserves of 57,000 metric tons). Most of that gold has come from just three countries: China, Australia, and South Africa.

Quote from: S'mon on July 31, 2023, 03:07:12 AM

Quote from: SHARK on July 30, 2023, 09:17:56 PM
When Alexander the Great led his army of some 50,000 troops to victory against the Persian Emperor Darius at Persepolis--Persepolis was one of the capital cities of the Persian Empire--Alexander te Great captured the Persian Emperor's treasury. 197,000 TONNES OF GOLD.

That seems impossible https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-much-gold-has-been-found-world#:~:text=About%20244%2C000%20metric%20tons%20of,reserves%20of%2057%2C000%20metric%20tons).

About 244,000 metric tons of gold has been discovered to date (187,000 metric tons historically produced plus current underground reserves of 57,000 metric tons). Most of that gold has come from just three countries: China, Australia, and South Africa.

Greetings!

ARRGGHH! WTF did I write? Thank you, my friend! It was late when I wrote that. I will check sources again later. Suffice to say, though, that the treasure was epic. It was staggering, I remember that, and it made the entire army fantastically wealthy!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on July 31, 2023, 08:35:16 AM
ARRGGHH! WTF did I write? Thank you, my friend! It was late when I wrote that. I will check sources again later.

That's ok SHARK  - yeah your post was interesting as always, but I suspect you were a couple of 00s off on the size of the Persian treasury. 

https://thehistorianshut.com/2017/02/13/alexander-the-great-looted-more-than-a-trillion-modern-u-s-dollars-worth-of-gold-and-silver-in-his-first-three-years-of-rule/#:~:text=Once%20Alexander%20the%20Great%20had,Keith%20Hansley.

A talent is a tricky measurement that can often vary widely depending on the source. Sometimes, a talent is noted to be around 25.8 kilograms (56.9 pounds) of weight, but in other sources a talent is approximately 50 kilograms (110 pounds)...
Once Alexander the Great had captured Persepolis, he had gathered around 200,000 talents of precious metals

So at high end estimate, 10,000 tons of gold & silver combined. 

All you do is create hyper inflation and crater the economy.

Quote from: SHARK on July 30, 2023, 09:17:56 PM
Greetings!

When Alexander the Great led his army of some 50,000 troops to victory against the Persian Emperor Darius at Persepolis--Persepolis was one of the capital cities of the Persian Empire--Alexander te Great captured the Persian Emperor's treasury. 197,000 TONNES OF GOLD. A similiar amount of SILVER. Each TALENT amounted to I think the lifetime wages of a dozen skilled craftsmen. There were unimaginable amounts of other dazzling treasures--gold armour, jeweled weapons, rich robes--alabaster, silks, crowns, diadems, treasures of every kind, and beyond counting.

Alexander the Great decreed that each and every soldier in his army was permitted to take all that they desired. Anything, and everything--as much as they could carry. Each of Alexander's soldiers was also gifted with multiple slaves from their conquests. Each soldier--regardless of rank--was instantly made as rich as any king. In one decree, Alexander the Great literally influenced entire societies and generational dynasties FOR CENTURIES. Some of these Macedonian soldiers went on to establish themselves as KINGS in Central Asia, Bactria, and India--establishing fantastic and rich aristocratic dynasties that flourished and ruled for hundreds of years--many generations. These are of course in addition to the new-moneyed kings and princes that were established throughout Egypt, Persia, Anatolia, and back home in Macedon and Greece. Eye-witnesses testified that the wealth was so incredible and unimaginably plentiful--that Alexander the Great had no care for it whatesoever, so long as all of his men got rewarded with everything they desired. His reward, of course, was being the new Emperor of Persia, and the Master of all Asia.

Slaves, women, animals, gold, jewels, finery and clothing, trinkets, and beatuful trinkets beyond belief were handed out by the wagonfull. Talk about EPIC TREASURE!

Think about the social and financial ramifications of such an event. The common soldier of Alexander's army gained more wealth than any previous prince or King in Macedon or Greece, of any kingdom, anywhere had ever possessed. That is how rich each man was made. The instant wealth transfer was staggering, and literally affected entire societies for hundreds of years.

Consider how such an event like that would affect your campaign's local area, or how it would impact entirely new areas? After all, many Macedonians and Greek soldiers went on to establish entire fortresses, grand palaces, and fully-equipped and furnished CITIES. ENTIRE CITIES WERE ESTABLISHED.

Isn't that wild and fantastic?

I am often inspired by such real events in history when working on my world of Thandor. As the saying goes, "Reality is Stranger than Fiction."

Pretty awesome stuff, I think!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I always thought that a campaign roughly based on Xenophon's Anabasis would be awesome.

Treasure is not the same as currency. Having a Lot of treasure is a logistics nightmare.
Moving it and guarding it are industries of their own.

Quote from: S'mon on July 31, 2023, 09:38:28 AM
https://thehistorianshut.com/2017/02/13/alexander-the-great-looted-more-than-a-trillion-modern-u-s-dollars-worth-of-gold-and-silver-in-his-first-three-years-of-rule/#:~:text=Once%20Alexander%20the%20Great%20had,Keith%20Hansley.

A talent is a tricky measurement that can often vary widely depending on the source. Sometimes, a talent is noted to be around 25.8 kilograms (56.9 pounds) of weight, but in other sources a talent is approximately 50 kilograms (110 pounds)...
Once Alexander the Great had captured Persepolis, he had gathered around 200,000 talents of precious metals

So at high end estimate, 10,000 tons of gold & silver combined.

Greetings!

TALENTS. Yes, 200,000 TALENTS. *Laughing* Thank you, again, Simon. Yes, it was late. You see? Talents, not Tons. You knew what I meant though!

Well, yes, even at 50 to a hundred pounds per talent, 200,000 Talents is a whole lot of gold. Plus the ungodly amounts of all that other treasure. Really incredible stuff!

I remember being really inspired by Professor Michael Wood, and his documentary/Book "In the Footsteps of Alexander." Very nice book, and wonderful documentary! He actually travels all along the way of Alexander's conquests, and his army. It is thrilling starting out in some Macedonian fishing village, making the crossing into Turkey--and all along the way, seeing the Levant, Egypt, the ruins at Persepolis, the deserts and canyons of Afghanistan, the epic journey through the Hindu Kush Mountains, and into India! Just amazing journey. Michael Wood talks to and meets with historians, archaeologists, and professional guides along the way. Professor Michael Wood is a British historian, teaching over there in Manchester! He is fantastic! Good historical insights, humour, and great little details of the terrain, climate, food, and local people.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: David Johansen on July 31, 2023, 10:35:39 AM
All you do is create hyper inflation and crater the economy.

Depends on how you manage it. Keep in mind that this was a pre-fiat currency, proto-feudal society.

If I was in Alexander's shoes, I'd have offered land grants at a VERY reasonable price to some of my better soldiers. I wouldn't have soaked them of all the booty, but adding a good chunk to my treasury in exchange for their own kingdoms (predicated on them swearing loyalty to me -- but I doubt that would've been a huge issue).

Still, that is a veritable dragon's hoard of treasure.

Quote from: S'mon on July 31, 2023, 09:38:28 AM
https://thehistorianshut.com/2017/02/13/alexander-the-great-looted-more-than-a-trillion-modern-u-s-dollars-worth-of-gold-and-silver-in-his-first-three-years-of-rule/#:~:text=Once%20Alexander%20the%20Great%20had,Keith%20Hansley.

A talent is a tricky measurement that can often vary widely depending on the source. Sometimes, a talent is noted to be around 25.8 kilograms (56.9 pounds) of weight, but in other sources a talent is approximately 50 kilograms (110 pounds)...
Once Alexander the Great had captured Persepolis, he had gathered around 200,000 talents of precious metals

So at high end estimate, 10,000 tons of gold & silver combined.

One of the things I noticed was Shark's usage of "tonnes" rather than "tons". This causes some confusion in and of itself as they are not the same unit of measure. However, because the values aren't that far apart, the difference is not widely known among the general public and could lead to two different errors.

1) The writer correctly uses tonne to mean megagram, and the reader mistakenly thinks it means ton, leading to an erroneously low weight.
2) The writer incorrectly uses tonne thinking it's interchangeable with ton, and the reader correctly interprets it as megagram, leading to an erroneously high weight.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 01, 2023, 10:12:00 AM

Quote from: David Johansen on July 31, 2023, 10:35:39 AM
All you do is create hyper inflation and crater the economy.

Depends on how you manage it. Keep in mind that this was a pre-fiat currency, proto-feudal society.

If I was in Alexander's shoes, I'd have offered land grants at a VERY reasonable price to some of my better soldiers. I wouldn't have soaked them of all the booty, but adding a good chunk to my treasury in exchange for their own kingdoms (predicated on them swearing loyalty to me -- but I doubt that would've been a huge issue).

Still, that is a veritable dragon's hoard of treasure.

Greetings!

Hey there Ghostmaker! Yeah, I am always blown away whenever I read descriptions presented by Historians of the Persian treasures taken by Alexander. It never fails to inspire me whenever I think of epic treasures in my campaigns!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Pen on July 31, 2023, 10:42:14 AM

Quote from: SHARK on July 30, 2023, 09:17:56 PM
Greetings!

When Alexander the Great led his army of some 50,000 troops to victory against the Persian Emperor Darius at Persepolis--Persepolis was one of the capital cities of the Persian Empire--Alexander te Great captured the Persian Emperor's treasury. 197,000 TONNES OF GOLD. A similiar amount of SILVER. Each TALENT amounted to I think the lifetime wages of a dozen skilled craftsmen. There were unimaginable amounts of other dazzling treasures--gold armour, jeweled weapons, rich robes--alabaster, silks, crowns, diadems, treasures of every kind, and beyond counting.

Alexander the Great decreed that each and every soldier in his army was permitted to take all that they desired. Anything, and everything--as much as they could carry. Each of Alexander's soldiers was also gifted with multiple slaves from their conquests. Each soldier--regardless of rank--was instantly made as rich as any king. In one decree, Alexander the Great literally influenced entire societies and generational dynasties FOR CENTURIES. Some of these Macedonian soldiers went on to establish themselves as KINGS in Central Asia, Bactria, and India--establishing fantastic and rich aristocratic dynasties that flourished and ruled for hundreds of years--many generations. These are of course in addition to the new-moneyed kings and princes that were established throughout Egypt, Persia, Anatolia, and back home in Macedon and Greece. Eye-witnesses testified that the wealth was so incredible and unimaginably plentiful--that Alexander the Great had no care for it whatesoever, so long as all of his men got rewarded with everything they desired. His reward, of course, was being the new Emperor of Persia, and the Master of all Asia.

Slaves, women, animals, gold, jewels, finery and clothing, trinkets, and beatuful trinkets beyond belief were handed out by the wagonfull. Talk about EPIC TREASURE!

Think about the social and financial ramifications of such an event. The common soldier of Alexander's army gained more wealth than any previous prince or King in Macedon or Greece, of any kingdom, anywhere had ever possessed. That is how rich each man was made. The instant wealth transfer was staggering, and literally affected entire societies for hundreds of years.

Consider how such an event like that would affect your campaign's local area, or how it would impact entirely new areas? After all, many Macedonians and Greek soldiers went on to establish entire fortresses, grand palaces, and fully-equipped and furnished CITIES. ENTIRE CITIES WERE ESTABLISHED.

Isn't that wild and fantastic?

I am often inspired by such real events in history when working on my world of Thandor. As the saying goes, "Reality is Stranger than Fiction."

Pretty awesome stuff, I think!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I always thought that a campaign roughly based on Xenophon's Anabasis would be awesome.

Greetings!

Xenophon's Anabasis is awesome! I have always loved reading ancient historian's commentaries and books. There is typically so much to be inspired by! Lots of weird details besides the major narratives.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Another point to consider (per Wikipedia) is that a talent might be much smaller -- say, not much bigger than a gold coin, or a Chinese tael.

Still, it's a lot of money.

I really need to read Anabasis. I've been working my way through a classics collection, but got distracted by The Man Eaters of Tsavo.

Quote from: SHARK on July 31, 2023, 03:57:18 PM

Quote from: S'mon on July 31, 2023, 09:38:28 AM
https://thehistorianshut.com/2017/02/13/alexander-the-great-looted-more-than-a-trillion-modern-u-s-dollars-worth-of-gold-and-silver-in-his-first-three-years-of-rule/#:~:text=Once%20Alexander%20the%20Great%20had,Keith%20Hansley.

A talent is a tricky measurement that can often vary widely depending on the source. Sometimes, a talent is noted to be around 25.8 kilograms (56.9 pounds) of weight, but in other sources a talent is approximately 50 kilograms (110 pounds)...
Once Alexander the Great had captured Persepolis, he had gathered around 200,000 talents of precious metals

So at high end estimate, 10,000 tons of gold & silver combined.

Greetings!

TALENTS. Yes, 200,000 TALENTS. *Laughing* Thank you, again, Simon. Yes, it was late. You see? Talents, not Tons. You knew what I meant though!

Well, yes, even at 50 to a hundred pounds per talent, 200,000 Talents is a whole lot of gold. Plus the ungodly amounts of all that other treasure. Really incredible stuff!

I was curious enough to do some quick figuring.  That gold would be worth about $40 billion usd today at the low end.  Yeah, that's kind of a lot.