The image is from said book, it's a supplement for 5E, I've been informed that Sly (the Lazy DM) didn't write that, but he still published it, I'll never again purchase ANYTHING by/from him.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 07, 2025, 03:09:38 PMThe image is from said book, it's a supplement for 5E, I've been informed that Sly (the Lazy DM) didn't write that, but he still published it, I'll never again purchase ANYTHING by/from him.
Yeah, I'm out too.
This is part of a larger section in the Forge of Foes on colonialism and how it's bad and everyone should agree with leftist politics when playing RPGs.
Sly has always been a leftie, fully onboard for safety features and "diversity" and all that jazz. So I'm not surprised.
He's got some good ideas, but a lot of wokie nonsense interspersed.
So are goblins attacking for "men's rights" on behalf of the male villagers? Wouldn't a pseudo-medieval society be the PATRIARCHY by definition? How would you push for men's rights when they are literally in charge of everything by using monsters that hate humans?
(https://i.imgur.com/nCXwig5.gif)
So, once upon a time, I bought the "Lazy GM's Guide" (or whatever it was called), and I read through it. It started off with what I considered to be solid GM advice. Not amazing, not lifechanging, but solid. By the time I got to the last few chapters, I was seriously questioning why I had read the thing in the first place. The last half diverges from what I would call "GMing 101" into "stupid stuff." Like, I wouldn't expect it to work at any table, and if it did, it still wouldn't make my GMing easier or better. A friend had his second book, and I flipped through just enough to confirm that it was more of the same.
So, honestly, I really don't get why he gets so much attention. I have watched a few of the videos on his YouTube channel, and I've honestly never seen anything that would make him stand out from any other random RPG guy on the internet. He's as close to being famous for being famous as there is in RPGs, IMHO. So, yeah, nothing of value is lost...
Everyone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Eh, goes? He's dropped little nuggets here and there on occasion in the past to make his thoughts known when I've watched his content but it hasn't been consistent(ly annoying) enough for me to unsub yet. Usually, it's when culture war takes the front page that he weighs in with a typically milk toast lefty take. I think it's more that this time it just made the niche-news as it's more obvious and concentrated. Either way, I don't have any interest in his book in the first place so I'm not his target audience.
Quote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:03:54 PMEveryone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Say what? I'm reacting to excerpts and haven't seen this.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2025, 05:29:51 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:03:54 PMEveryone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Say what? I'm reacting to excerpts and haven't seen this.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781724077437222932/1324599698954387498/Screenshot_20250102_234604_OneDrive.jpg?ex=677eabda&is=677d5a5a&hm=9620e1aa87ab110101626babc3a0b2b382b879d79a71f2ca8bd76d4ef34f674a&)
Here you go.
I'm gonna be real here, I think nothing in this thread is gonna top Slambo dropping in the "be sure to get consent from the monsters you are dorking" full page spread.
This is like, historic.
Quote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:32:49 PMQuote from: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2025, 05:29:51 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:03:54 PMEveryone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Say what? I'm reacting to excerpts and haven't seen this.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781724077437222932/1324599698954387498/Screenshot_20250102_234604_OneDrive.jpg?ex=677eabda&is=677d5a5a&hm=9620e1aa87ab110101626babc3a0b2b382b879d79a71f2ca8bd76d4ef34f674a&)
Here you go.
(https://c.tenor.com/BN-d9HEoTNMAAAAC/tenor.gif)
In another context, I wouldn't be so down on romance in rpgs. But in this context of the writer's other stances, it reeks of degenerate player characters fucking their way through the monster manual.
The "consent" hand wringing nonsense is especially awful.
God, this supplement is looking more and more like a suppository.
Imma be honest l, ive long thought wanting to fuck monsters is part of why they want all monsters to be people.
Quote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:32:49 PMQuote from: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2025, 05:29:51 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:03:54 PMEveryone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Say what? I'm reacting to excerpts and haven't seen this.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781724077437222932/1324599698954387498/Screenshot_20250102_234604_OneDrive.jpg?ex=677eabda&is=677d5a5a&hm=9620e1aa87ab110101626babc3a0b2b382b879d79a71f2ca8bd76d4ef34f674a&)
Here you go.
Hey look it's Nabooru!
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0kV23zb/Ocarina-of-Time-Nabooru-Feature-886x446.jpg)
Oh hellllll no...
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/vc2A6hCpKDsAAAAC/no-stop.gif)
Darmok and Jelad at Tenagra! Shaka, the walls fell! Temba, his arms are crossed you pervs! :) I take back the semi understanding things I said earlier in the thread, lol.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2025, 05:44:42 PMIn another context, I wouldn't be so down on romance in rpgs. But in this context of the writer's other stances, it reeks of degenerate player characters fucking their way through the monster manual.
The "consent" hand wringing nonsense is especially awful.
God, this supplement is looking more and more like a suppository.
I'm doubling down on my comment in another thread about 'good thing D&D was saved'. Not if it is going to amount to this. I never imagined in my worst nightmares that this sort of thing would crop up in rpgs.
Well now I need to see the rest of the Fuck the Monster section. It's at least a two page spread.
Quote from: Thornhammer on January 07, 2025, 07:37:08 PMWell now I need to see the rest of the Fuck the Monster section. It's at least a two page spread.
For the Science of course... :D
Quote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:32:49 PMQuote from: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2025, 05:29:51 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:03:54 PMEveryone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Say what? I'm reacting to excerpts and haven't seen this.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781724077437222932/1324599698954387498/Screenshot_20250102_234604_OneDrive.jpg?ex=677eabda&is=677d5a5a&hm=9620e1aa87ab110101626babc3a0b2b382b879d79a71f2ca8bd76d4ef34f674a&)
Here you go.
Ok, I've got to channel my inner SHARK here. These degenerates need to be bathed in napalm.
This is one of those things so idiotic that you can't believe it isn't some kind of troll or parody. If you've gotten to the point where you are in such an ideological echo chamber that this seems like a good idea, you are lost. It's over.
If it was OSR compatible then there would be a random table for position. RPGPundit, what are you waiting for!?!? :)
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 07, 2025, 08:42:11 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:32:49 PMQuote from: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2025, 05:29:51 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:03:54 PMEveryone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Say what? I'm reacting to excerpts and haven't seen this.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781724077437222932/1324599698954387498/Screenshot_20250102_234604_OneDrive.jpg?ex=677eabda&is=677d5a5a&hm=9620e1aa87ab110101626babc3a0b2b382b879d79a71f2ca8bd76d4ef34f674a&)
Here you go.
Ok, I've got to channel my inner SHARK here. These degenerates need to be bathed in napalm.
This is one of those things so idiotic that you can't believe it isn't some kind of troll or parody. If you've gotten to the point where you are in such an ideological echo chamber that this seems like a good idea, you are lost. It's over.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Ahh, yeah my friend! This is so degenerate, so stupid, and smarmy, I am just lighting up a good cigar, puffing away slowly while laughing and shaking my head.
I saw a related video, by fantasy and Sci-Fi author, Jon Del Arroz, where he takes this apart in a savage manner. That is where I first heard of SLY FLOURISH's stupid, terrible game book. Sly Flourish also includes within this book an extensive section lecturing and brow-beating gamers on "Anti-Colonialism" and how they need to play D&D properly, safely, and respectfully.
Sly Flourish is such a fucking weak, Woke Commie degenerate. He is disgusting, and honestly, one of the worst gamer writers/YouTubers that seek to "educate" and influence gamers. I also have sympathy for those gamers that are shocked, or had a positive view of Sly Flourish. Watching a *few* of his videos, or just reading "The Lazy DM"--it is understandable and reasonable to assume positive and good intentions. I know that initially, I thought he was pretty solid as well. But lo and behold, as time and politics marches on, you see a few more of his videos where his inner Woke fucktard has been hidden away and lurking, but he can't help himself, and it bursts forth with vivid colour and shocking fuckery.
Napalm indeed, my friend!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:32:49 PMQuote from: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2025, 05:29:51 PMQuote from: Slambo on January 07, 2025, 05:03:54 PMEveryone is missing that the same book also has a section on having sex with monsters
Say what? I'm reacting to excerpts and haven't seen this.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/781724077437222932/1324599698954387498/Screenshot_20250102_234604_OneDrive.jpg?ex=677eabda&is=677d5a5a&hm=9620e1aa87ab110101626babc3a0b2b382b879d79a71f2ca8bd76d4ef34f674a&)
Here you go.
Why is there even a section for this?
Is there a section on how to torture NPCs?
What about a section on kicking puppies?
All vital elements of RPGing...
Roll for Cloacal Circumference!
Quote from: Brad on January 07, 2025, 04:38:08 PMSo are goblins attacking for "men's rights" on behalf of the male villagers? Wouldn't a pseudo-medieval society be the PATRIARCHY by definition? How would you push for men's rights when they are literally in charge of everything by using monsters that hate humans?
For the Left it is always Year Zero... today's politics were always the norm throughout history and therefore the Medieval villages were actually always benevolent anarcho-communist trans-feminist strongholds of tolerance for all things perverse and society destroying and its only the present day evil Patriarchy telling everyone they used to be benevolent patriarchies.
The saddest part is how many are so lacking in historical context they actually believe this.
I don't know. Third party supplements about weird sex stuff have been around for decades and the "bard rolls to seduce the dragon" joke for probably as long. In my personal reckoning of degeneracy, it all depends on what kind of monster we're talking about. A Djinn? Couldn't care less. A Displacer Beast? Yeah, that's pretty fucked up.
The "anti-colonialist gaming" thing is infinitely more pathetic and embarrassing.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 07, 2025, 07:41:28 PMFor the Science of course... :D
Hot, throbbing scientific consent!
Quote from: ForgottenF on January 07, 2025, 10:14:56 PMI don't know. Third party supplements about weird sex stuff have been around for decades and the "bard rolls to seduce the dragon" joke for probably as long. In my personal reckoning of degeneracy, it all depends on what kind of monster we're talking about. A Djinn? Couldn't care less. A Displacer Beast? Yeah, that's pretty fucked up.
The "anti-colonialist gaming" thing is infinitely more pathetic and embarrassing.
Guess you missed the part about shagging FERAL monsters...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 07, 2025, 05:02:09 PMSo, once upon a time, I bought the "Lazy GM's Guide" (or whatever it was called), and I read through it. It started off with what I considered to be solid GM advice. Not amazing, not lifechanging, but solid. By the time I got to the last few chapters, I was seriously questioning why I had read the thing in the first place. The last half diverges from what I would call "GMing 101" into "stupid stuff." Like, I wouldn't expect it to work at any table, and if it did, it still wouldn't make my GMing easier or better. A friend had his second book, and I flipped through just enough to confirm that it was more of the same.
So, honestly, I really don't get why he gets so much attention. I have watched a few of the videos on his YouTube channel, and I've honestly never seen anything that would make him stand out from any other random RPG guy on the internet. He's as close to being famous for being famous as there is in RPGs, IMHO. So, yeah, nothing of value is lost...
I guess some people see 650 to 750 pages of core rule books, right out the gate; and they are desperate to find help for GM'ing.
You kind of have to wonder how a person like this Sly Flourish would respond to something like this. Does he side with the monitor lizard because it didn't give its consent, or does he side with the men because he doesn't want to be a colonialist white supremacist?
Quote from: ForgottenF on January 07, 2025, 10:14:56 PMI don't know. Third party supplements about weird sex stuff have been around for decades and the "bard rolls to seduce the dragon" joke for probably as long. In my personal reckoning of degeneracy, it all depends on what kind of monster we're talking about. A Djinn? Couldn't care less. A Displacer Beast? Yeah, that's pretty fucked up.
The "anti-colonialist gaming" thing is infinitely more pathetic and embarrassing.
Seducing the monster: yeah, I'm in agreement here. A thief or some other PC trying to seduce the hill giant's wife in G1 Steading of the Hill Giant Chief is one thing...but trying to get it on with the carrion crawlers on the dungeon level of same module? That's beastiality.
Anti-colonialism: oh boy. There's a ton to unpack here. I'm a historian at heart. Went a few years to school to get a degree in it (fat lotta good it did for me), so I know when it comes to history, you NEVER take history out of the context from when it happened. Ever. It's the #1 blunder the vast majority of people do when looking back on historical events.
Anti-colonialism is empty-headed nonsense. Most smooth brained people who bring it up think that "Colonialism" is something that just happened in the past 300 years or so, or at worst, think Western civilization is the only one who practiced it.
Guess what? Colonialism, or the act of colonizing land for multiple reasons and purposes, has been practiced within the entirely of human history, and I didn't say "recorded" either. Migration is a type of colonizing. Except with migration, you're moving the entire people from one place to another, not a small portion. So, in effect when our cave-dwelling ancestors moved from place to place, some migrated and some colonized. If we didn't colonize and migrate as a species in the early stages on humankind, we would have died out.
There is no human population that hasn't migrated and/or colonized. EVER. You name a culture, people, nation, empire that existed and I'm sure they've migrated or colonized or both.
I'm also not ignoring the fact that colonialism and migration causes detrimental effects upon peoples who are already occupying that region. I well aware of that and I accept it. That's just how it works. Peoples move an occupy space from others, and the ones who are occupied have a few options. 1. fight 2. integrate 3. move. Unfortunately, all three of these options can lead to death: 1. death through war 2. cultural death 3. potential death by migrating to other spaces, and now your people are the colonizers.
Sorry for the rant. When I see someone say "anti-colonialism", I see a moron.
Quote from: Omega on January 07, 2025, 09:00:24 PMWhy is there even a section for this?
As it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
Quote from: Zalman on January 08, 2025, 09:42:02 AMQuote from: Omega on January 07, 2025, 09:00:24 PMWhy is there even a section for this?
As it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
Yeah. In my 42+ years gaming, this has happened exactly... never. Seriously. No one has ever tried to seduce the main villain. But then again, that's because my players are people with a strong moral foundation and who would not see a villain as anything other than an evil to be defeated, even if he/she was "hot."
Honestly, this sounds like the feminization of Western society has gotten to the point where anything can be forgiven as long as a protagonist can "save" the bad guy (typical romance novel plot). When
50 Shades of Gray becomes the ethical foundation of your RPGs, you've listened to too many women...
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 07, 2025, 11:33:22 PMQuote from: ForgottenF on January 07, 2025, 10:14:56 PMI don't know. Third party supplements about weird sex stuff have been around for decades and the "bard rolls to seduce the dragon" joke for probably as long. In my personal reckoning of degeneracy, it all depends on what kind of monster we're talking about. A Djinn? Couldn't care less. A Displacer Beast? Yeah, that's pretty fucked up.
The "anti-colonialist gaming" thing is infinitely more pathetic and embarrassing.
Guess you missed the part about shagging FERAL monsters...
I noticed it. I just don't have it in me to get outraged about that sort of thing. I thought "our side" was the one that laughed at people who couldn't distinguish fantasy from reality.
Anyway, I'd guess from context that what they have in mind with "feral monsters" is more like vampires, werewolves, demons, etc, just based on the Twilight reference and the fact that you can't really "romance" or get consent from a creature of animal intelligence. Still gross, but not what I'd call beyond the pale for a fantasy game.
Quote from: Zalman on January 08, 2025, 09:42:02 AMAs it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
It's never happened in one of my games, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually pretty common. Like I said above, the "bard tries to seduce the monster/villain" meme is so common that it has to have a grain of truth to it, and people will generally do some pretty wild shit in their games for a laugh.
I'd also guess it's pretty common because this is the direction modern fantasy fiction has been going in. The two most prolific and bestselling subgenres right now are "romantasy" (basically fantasy "bodice rippers"), and "LitRPG" (usually isekai stories based on videogame tropes). I don't read either, but from what I hear both those genres have banging the villain as a standard trope. The quoted text even uses the phrase "enemies to lovers" which is the name in those circles for that trope.
What's absurd is the hand-wringing about consent. The funny thing about these people is that they want to turn their games into a sleazy romance novel, but they don't understand the first thing about how that kind of fictional romance works. In their minds what should happen is that the PC charms the villain with how brave and stunning she is, and then he miraculously abandons his evil plans, mends his ways, and proceeds to spend the rest of his life making soy milk scones and being a non-threatening and submissive feminist ally. Then they go off and read books where the bad-boy monster and the heroine have snarky banter at each other before engaging in a graphic hatefuck.
Sounds like they raided a bunch of old games for DM advice and where blurry eyed when they got to the James Bond RPG.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 10:23:59 AMQuote from: Zalman on January 08, 2025, 09:42:02 AMQuote from: Omega on January 07, 2025, 09:00:24 PMWhy is there even a section for this?
As it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
Yeah. In my 42+ years gaming, this has happened exactly... never. Seriously. No one has ever tried to seduce the main villain. But then again, that's because my players are people with a strong moral foundation and who would not see a villain as anything other than an evil to be defeated, even if he/she was "hot."
Honestly, this sounds like the feminization of Western society has gotten to the point where anything can be forgiven as long as a protagonist can "save" the bad guy (typical romance novel plot). When 50 Shades of Gray becomes the ethical foundation of your RPGs, you've listened to too many women...
I think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction
to defeat the evil is quite common. There are numerous war and spy novels and movies where the hero/heroine does exactly that. Hell, I think it's been used in fantasy as well.
In this case, seducing the evil antagonist is a deception to leverage a weakness in the bad guy. Hell, it could be used just as a distraction. Would it be so far of a stretch to have a charismatic thief to try to seduce the (fill in demi-human or humanoid race here) prison guards, so as to distract them from the rest of the party?
Plus, and I can't stress this enough, there might be a limit on how far the seduction will go. It doesn't exactly mean going "all the way". It could be some flirting, maybe kissing. Who knows. When the goal is accomplished, the seduction ends.
OTOH, I draw the line at seducing monsters that are OBVIOUSLY monsters. If it looks like beastiality, it IS beastiality.
Quote from: blackstone on January 08, 2025, 11:27:38 AMI think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common. There are numerous war and spy novels and movies where the hero/heroine does exactly that. Hell, I think it's been used in fantasy as well.
In this case, seducing the evil antagonist is a deception to leverage a weakness in the bad guy. Hell, it could be used just as a distraction. Would it be so far of a stretch to have a charismatic thief to try to seduce the (fill in demi-human or humanoid race here) prison guards, so as to distract them from the rest of the party?
The Gray Mouser spends like half of
Swords of Lankhmar trying to hook up with a rat-human hybrid who is at least a secondary villain in the story. I think at one point he's doing it for a semi-noble reason, but mostly he's just trying to get laid.
Quote from: blackstone on January 08, 2025, 11:27:38 AMQuote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 10:23:59 AMQuote from: Zalman on January 08, 2025, 09:42:02 AMQuote from: Omega on January 07, 2025, 09:00:24 PMWhy is there even a section for this?
As it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
Yeah. In my 42+ years gaming, this has happened exactly... never. Seriously. No one has ever tried to seduce the main villain. But then again, that's because my players are people with a strong moral foundation and who would not see a villain as anything other than an evil to be defeated, even if he/she was "hot."
Honestly, this sounds like the feminization of Western society has gotten to the point where anything can be forgiven as long as a protagonist can "save" the bad guy (typical romance novel plot). When 50 Shades of Gray becomes the ethical foundation of your RPGs, you've listened to too many women...
I think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common.
Nope. The use of seduction
to distract the evil is common. When you have
two sections on "consent" in that chapter, you
are not talking about flirting or holding hands. You are talking about sex with the bad guy or monster! And that's a popular, degenerate theme in modern women's romance novels.
There have been honeytraps throughout all of real human history. That doesn't mean my group wants to, or has ever, played them. A character flashing the guards for a momentary distraction (and laughs) is NOT the same as creating a subplot where you are boning Vecna (pun intended). Look at the illustration! It's a character seducing a naga. That's not a "humanoid."
The problem with many people is that, when the evil tell us what they want to do, those people then argue that the evil didn't really mean what they said. The book is explicitly talking about sex (and consent) with monsters. How dense do you need to be to argue they don't mean what they are directly saying? What do you think "... well, fiercely taking down their foe. If you catch the drift." means?
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 07, 2025, 05:02:09 PMSo, once upon a time, I bought the "Lazy GM's Guide" (or whatever it was called), and I read through it. It started off with what I considered to be solid GM advice. Not amazing, not lifechanging, but solid. By the time I got to the last few chapters, I was seriously questioning why I had read the thing in the first place. The last half diverges from what I would call "GMing 101" into "stupid stuff." Like, I wouldn't expect it to work at any table, and if it did, it still wouldn't make my GMing easier or better. A friend had his second book, and I flipped through just enough to confirm that it was more of the same.
I liked that book way back when, although the only thing I remember taking away from it was the secrets and clues thing. I liked the idea that you would have things you'd want the party to pick up or learn so you don't bother thinking where to put the thing or the clue, you just give it to them when seems appropriate. The problem of course is that if the party starts to wonder why they found something
where they found it the system can break down pretty fast, which puts a lot of onus on you to put things only where they reasonably would be, which complicates the whole system and makes it harder to use at the table. As much as I liked that idea, I never really implemented it at the table. I don't remember any of the other stuff in the book, and certainly don't care to look it up, and I won't be purchasing anything else of his any time soon.
Quote from: ForgottenF on January 08, 2025, 12:10:53 PMQuote from: blackstone on January 08, 2025, 11:27:38 AMI think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common. There are numerous war and spy novels and movies where the hero/heroine does exactly that. Hell, I think it's been used in fantasy as well.
In this case, seducing the evil antagonist is a deception to leverage a weakness in the bad guy. Hell, it could be used just as a distraction. Would it be so far of a stretch to have a charismatic thief to try to seduce the (fill in demi-human or humanoid race here) prison guards, so as to distract them from the rest of the party?
The Gray Mouser spends like half of Swords of Lankhmar trying to hook up with a rat-human hybrid who is at least a secondary villain in the story. I think at one point he's doing it for a semi-noble reason, but mostly he's just trying to get laid.
Thanks for reminding me of ONE of the reasons I never liked those books.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 12:15:27 PMQuote from: blackstone on January 08, 2025, 11:27:38 AMQuote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 10:23:59 AMQuote from: Zalman on January 08, 2025, 09:42:02 AMQuote from: Omega on January 07, 2025, 09:00:24 PMWhy is there even a section for this?
As it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
Yeah. In my 42+ years gaming, this has happened exactly... never. Seriously. No one has ever tried to seduce the main villain. But then again, that's because my players are people with a strong moral foundation and who would not see a villain as anything other than an evil to be defeated, even if he/she was "hot."
Honestly, this sounds like the feminization of Western society has gotten to the point where anything can be forgiven as long as a protagonist can "save" the bad guy (typical romance novel plot). When 50 Shades of Gray becomes the ethical foundation of your RPGs, you've listened to too many women...
I think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common.
Nope. The use of seduction to distract the evil is common. When you have two sections on "consent" in that chapter, you are not talking about flirting or holding hands. You are talking about sex with the bad guy or monster! And that's a popular, degenerate theme in modern women's romance novels.
There have been honeytraps throughout all of real human history. That doesn't mean my group wants to, or has ever, played them. A character flashing the guards for a momentary distraction (and laughs) is NOT the same as creating a subplot where you are boning Vecna (pun intended). Look at the illustration! It's a character seducing a naga. That's not a "humanoid."
The problem with many people is that, when the evil tell us what they want to do, those people then argue that the evil didn't really mean what they said. The book is explicitly talking about sex (and consent) with monsters. How dense do you need to be to argue they don't mean what they are directly saying? What do you think "... well, fiercely taking down their foe. If you catch the drift." means?
Yeah, there are a few passages that the author's attempt at being edgy come off as plain creepy. Approval of beastiality is a no go.
I still do stand by what I said:
QuoteUse of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common. There are numerous war and spy novels and movies where the hero/heroine does exactly that. Hell, I think it's been used in fantasy as well.
In this case, seducing the evil antagonist is a deception to leverage a weakness in the bad guy. Hell, it could be used just as a distraction. Would it be so far of a stretch to have a charismatic thief to try to seduce the (fill in demi-human or humanoid race here) prison guards, so as to distract them from the rest of the party?
Plus, and I can't stress this enough, there might be a limit on how far the seduction will go. It doesn't exactly mean going "all the way". It could be some flirting, maybe kissing. Who knows. When the goal is accomplished, the seduction ends.
OTOH, I draw the line at seducing monsters that are OBVIOUSLY monsters. If it looks like beastiality, it IS beastiality.
I don't think anything I said here is unreasonable. The Lazy DM though takes it to the next deviant level.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 10:23:59 AMHonestly, this sounds like the feminization of Western society has gotten to the point where anything can be forgiven as long as a protagonist can "save" the bad guy (typical romance novel plot). When 50 Shades of Gray becomes the ethical foundation of your RPGs, you've listened to too many women...
It's gotten to point where many romance readers will satirize it. "He killed billions of innocent people, but all is forgiven because he's hot."
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 10:23:59 AMQuote from: Zalman on January 08, 2025, 09:42:02 AMQuote from: Omega on January 07, 2025, 09:00:24 PMWhy is there even a section for this?
As it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
Yeah. In my 42+ years gaming, this has happened exactly... never. Seriously. No one has ever tried to seduce the main villain.
Lol! About 25 years into my RPG hobby, I got the bright idea of bribing a couple of fire giants instead of fighting them. And to think I thought I had done something innovative...!!!
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on January 08, 2025, 01:49:16 PMQuote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 10:23:59 AMHonestly, this sounds like the feminization of Western society has gotten to the point where anything can be forgiven as long as a protagonist can "save" the bad guy (typical romance novel plot). When 50 Shades of Gray becomes the ethical foundation of your RPGs, you've listened to too many women...
It's gotten to point where many romance readers will satirize it. "He killed billions of innocent people, but all is forgiven because he's hot."
Yup. See Nu Star Wars. On a related note, imagine how many deaths Obi Wan is responsible for by not killing Anakin/Vader outright not just once, but (as of the TV series) twice...
Nothing says colonialist quite like fucking the indigenous monsters though
Quote from: Anon Adderlan on January 09, 2025, 11:38:59 AMNothing says colonialist quite like fucking the indigenous monsters though
Cultural insemination at its worst.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 10:23:59 AMQuote from: Zalman on January 08, 2025, 09:42:02 AMQuote from: Omega on January 07, 2025, 09:00:24 PMWhy is there even a section for this?
As it says in the text, because "many campaigns come to the crossroads that is romancing the big bad."
So. Many.
Yeah. In my 42+ years gaming, this has happened exactly... never. Seriously. No one has ever tried to seduce the main villain. But then again, that's because my players are people with a strong moral foundation and who would not see a villain as anything other than an evil to be defeated, even if he/she was "hot."
Honestly, this sounds like the feminization of Western society has gotten to the point where anything can be forgiven as long as a protagonist can "save" the bad guy (typical romance novel plot). When 50 Shades of Gray becomes the ethical foundation of your RPGs, you've listened to too many women...
I have had some -really- mild flirting as a player with a villain as part of RPing trying to turn them to the good guys side. As a DM I ran two campaigns that at some point had some forays into romance. Though they usually puttered out.
TSR's Marvel Superheroes on the other hand has romances and other social play as part of the character if so desired. Family, loved ones, and so on. One of the few RPGs to ever think about the non-adventuring side and how it might impact the hero.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 12:15:27 PMQuote from: blackstone on January 08, 2025, 11:27:38 AMI think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common.
Nope. The use of seduction to distract the evil is common. When you have two sections on "consent" in that chapter, you are not talking about flirting or holding hands. You are talking about sex with the bad guy or monster! And that's a popular, degenerate theme in modern women's romance novels.
There have been honeytraps throughout all of real human history. That doesn't mean my group wants to, or has ever, played them. A character flashing the guards for a momentary distraction (and laughs) is NOT the same as creating a subplot where you are boning Vecna (pun intended).
It's not just women's romance stories. James Bond would frequently have sex with a villain. Sometimes he would successfully turn her to his side, like Domino or Pussy Galore. Sometimes he wouldn't and he had to kill her. The same goes for Conan, who had sex with Belit - who turned from his enemy to his ally - as well as other women who ended up betraying him.
The original Monster Manual had a whole bunch of intentionally sexy monsters - Dryad, Succubus, Nymph, Sylph. That matches with some of the source material.
If it's not to one's taste, that's fine. I've rarely had it in any of my games. But it is a feature of many pulp fantasy and adventure stories, not just modern women's romance.
Quote from: jhkim on January 12, 2025, 02:21:37 AMQuote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 12:15:27 PMQuote from: blackstone on January 08, 2025, 11:27:38 AMI think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common.
Nope. The use of seduction to distract the evil is common. When you have two sections on "consent" in that chapter, you are not talking about flirting or holding hands. You are talking about sex with the bad guy or monster! And that's a popular, degenerate theme in modern women's romance novels.
There have been honeytraps throughout all of real human history. That doesn't mean my group wants to, or has ever, played them. A character flashing the guards for a momentary distraction (and laughs) is NOT the same as creating a subplot where you are boning Vecna (pun intended).
It's not just women's romance stories. James Bond would frequently have sex with a villain. Sometimes he would successfully turn her to his side, like Domino or Pussy Galore. Sometimes he wouldn't and he had to kill her. The same goes for Conan, who had sex with Belit - who turned from his enemy to his ally - as well as other women who ended up betraying him.
The original Monster Manual had a whole bunch of intentionally sexy monsters - Dryad, Succubus, Nymph, Sylph. That matches with some of the source material.
If it's not to one's taste, that's fine. I've rarely had it in any of my games. But it is a feature of many pulp fantasy and adventure stories, not just modern women's romance.
If the writer of the book had put a fraction of thought into the topic, you might have a point.
But the whole section reads of "Hey, have you considered fucking the monsters in your adventure?"
Quote from: jhkim on January 12, 2025, 02:21:37 AMQuote from: Eirikrautha on January 08, 2025, 12:15:27 PMQuote from: blackstone on January 08, 2025, 11:27:38 AMI think you might be misunderstanding something here. Use of seduction to defeat the evil is quite common.
Nope. The use of seduction to distract the evil is common. When you have two sections on "consent" in that chapter, you are not talking about flirting or holding hands. You are talking about sex with the bad guy or monster! And that's a popular, degenerate theme in modern women's romance novels.
There have been honeytraps throughout all of real human history. That doesn't mean my group wants to, or has ever, played them. A character flashing the guards for a momentary distraction (and laughs) is NOT the same as creating a subplot where you are boning Vecna (pun intended).
It's not just women's romance stories. James Bond would frequently have sex with a villain. Sometimes he would successfully turn her to his side, like Domino or Pussy Galore. Sometimes he wouldn't and he had to kill her. The same goes for Conan, who had sex with Belit - who turned from his enemy to his ally - as well as other women who ended up betraying him.
The original Monster Manual had a whole bunch of intentionally sexy monsters - Dryad, Succubus, Nymph, Sylph. That matches with some of the source material.
If it's not to one's taste, that's fine. I've rarely had it in any of my games. But it is a feature of many pulp fantasy and adventure stories, not just modern women's romance.
That would use their sex appeal to seduce then kill the PCs. But of course that's Muhsoggyknees.