Quote from: The Good AssyrianOn that we fully agree.  I could use some of those myself.

Dude, from what I've read of you on this board, you're fully capable of making good -- no, great -- stories.  Anyone is, really!

Meaning doesn't inhere in things.  You don't need gimmicky game mechanics, a college education or lots of red to make a story meaningful.  Stories get meaning from your interpretation of events, how the events you're recounting impacted you and how you're able to relate that impact to others.  That's something we're all able to do, and it has nothing to do with a silly set of rules on paper.

Stories are a way we have of organizing our experiences and making sense of what happened.  They're told after the fact (yes, I know there are narratives told in the present tense, but every rule has an exception, and I'm not getting into lit theory or the mechanics of authorship here).  Which is why the Forge method of narrative legislation -- putting the narrative cart before the horse, as it were -- strikes me as backward.

EDIT: And Werekoala said some of the same things while I was busy typing this!

Quote from: SettembriniIs this post by GrimGent for real?

Sure. I mean, you already have to tiptoe along a tightrope if you play, say, a servant of Hell, since the devils expect you to cause suffering but the law forbids you from harming innocents. Catch a sinner, though, and you can rightfully make him suffer seven times as much as he has hurt others.

Incidentally, I just read that entire thread over at RPGnet, and the play report on Poison'd certainly doesn't seem to do justice to the whole game. Don't expect me to be horrified if the text mentions sodomy as a possible sin in passing and the players then choose to elaborate on that.

Isn't this game just another version of Grand Theft Auto?  And didn't that game get a lot of press from people condemning it?

Correct my memory if you will, Mr. Chuckles, but I don't think GTA's transgressions were coated with Baker's Own(TM) Christian morality syrup.

Get it before they excise the hot cofee mechanic....

Quote from: chucklesIsn't this game just another version of Grand Theft Auto?  And didn't that game get a lot of press from people condemning it?

No such thing as bad publicity, apparently. But going by what I've read, Poison'd doesn't actually demand a PC to do horrible things to anyone: that's just the easiest way to power at the cost of the character's soul.

Quote from: gleichmanYou raise a good question.

I know that in my case that rpgs are a bit of wish fullfillment. Fighting the good fight, defeating evil, etc. and doing it in style. Being the Hero. If any of that happened in real life I'd be road kill assuming I didn't die from fear first. But I can do it in the game. But I also don't claim the game as some deep reflection upon the nature of Heroism.

I wonder how many of them are in the same boat with story telling- worthless, but they can convince themselves they can do it in the game? And in a telling difference, they seem to consider it a deep reflection upon the nature of Story.

It's an interesting thought, and if true, it would mirror their whole approach to "RPG theory."  To wit, no real, formal study of the matter at hand, but a bunch of poorly thought-out ideas dumped on a public messageboard and presented as dogma.  Admittedly, I have found some very useful ideas and approaches from reading theory, but most of the good comes from RGFA; those folks spoke from long experience actually playing and discussing matters in an honest manner.

Quote from: GrimGentNo such thing as bad publicity, apparently. But going by what I've read, Poison'd doesn't actually demand a PC to do horrible things to anyone: that's just the easiest way to power at the cost of the character's soul.

So it's kind of like how major food corporations aren't really force-feeding the poor a bunch of cheap junk food that destroys their health.  Those poor people could eat better quality food if they wanted, they'll just have to learn to only eat a few meals a week because they can't afford the usual 3/day.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityCorrect my memory if you will, Mr. Chuckles, but I don't think GTA's transgressions were coated with Baker's Own(TM) Christian morality syrup.

"Why, I have been guilty of all the sins in the world! I know not where to begin. I may begin with gaming! No, whoring, that led on to gaming; and gaming led on to drinking; and drinking to lying, and swearing and cursing, and all that is bad; and so to thieving, and to this!"
--the pirate John Brown of Sam Bellamy's crew, at the gallows.

Don't waste my time, GG.

Quote from: jgantsSo it's kind of like how major food corporations aren't really force-feeding the poor a bunch of cheap junk food that destroys their health.

That's not really a valid comparison, since any pirate in the game can choose not to sin, even if it means suffering hardship because of it. Taking care of your soul and pursuing nobler ambitions is every bit as possible as wallowing in depravity, and unlike the sinful life, it will even get you to Heaven in the end.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityDon't waste my time, GG.

I've been reading Under the Black Flag by David Cordingly lately. It contains all kinds of interesting snippets of information which should prove useful if I ever happen to run a pirate game.

Quote from: KenHRIt's an interesting thought, and if true, it would mirror their whole approach to "RPG theory."  To wit, no real, formal study of the matter at hand, but a bunch of poorly thought-out ideas dumped on a public messageboard and presented as dogma.

Indeed it would. Seems likely doesn't it?

Quote from: KenHRAdmittedly, I have found some very useful ideas and approaches from reading theory, but most of the good comes from RGFA; those folks spoke from long experience actually playing and discussing matters in an honest manner.

There are some interesting differences between rgfa and the Forge.

RGFA's statements were born in conflict. Flatly few people there agreed with anyone else. To this was added a desire by a few to understand how and why people so different from themselves worked. Out of that fire came some interesting and worthwhile ideas. It died when the flames became too hot, and the desire for agreement too great.

The Forge in contrast was taken and turned into a platform for one man. And disagreement was disallowed from the beginning. It's already basically died in my mind (it's place taken over by Story Games), but will finally end when Edwards does.

So...I just want to be clear..it's much more difficult to take care of your soul, I think being noble you put it, than it is to submit to Sin and be rewarded.

If I have the right of it, the first question to answer is there any long term impact to submitting; something beyond the reward?  I keep hearing things like you lose your Soul - what does Soul get you?

I just get the sense that there's a piece missing...

These questions will lead to hell in a handbasket I fear.

Quote from: GrimGentThat's not really a valid comparison, since any pirate in the game can choose not to sin, even if it means suffering hardship because of it. Taking care of your soul and pursuing nobler ambitions is every bit as possible as wallowing in depravity, and unlike the sinful life, it will even get you to Heaven in the end.

All of which addresses the point of my original post in no way.

Nor even in the context you've put it does 'getting into Heaven' matter, you've exited play of the game on that event (be it Hell or Heaven) and are either on to something else or creating another Pirate- at least as far as the rules go.