Quote from: BalbinusAt the risk of taking the Forge side for a moment, that's a reason for not buying certainly but is it any more than that?  Is it ultimately any different to that d20 tome of ultimate evil (apparent from probably better designed and written)?

Bzzt.  Wrong.  Quite a lot of people were just as displeased with books like Book of Erotic Fantasy and Book of Vile Darkness, and seemed to feel they were juvenile wastes of paper.

Quote from: J ArcaneBzzt.  Wrong.  Quite a lot of people were just as displeased with books like Book of Erotic Fantasy and Book of Vile Darkness, and seemed to feel they were juvenile wastes of paper.

Fair point.

Reading the rpg.net thread, it's just Ian and Hollian pushing the being edgy is fun angle isn't it?  I don't really see anyone else there doing that though I admit I didn't have the will for the whole thing.

I mean, if they hadn't boasted (I suspect in full knowledge of what would happen) of how evil their characters were we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?

It's not the game, it's Ian actively engaged in viral marketing, rather successfully to in one sense his credit (though not a credit I would wish myself).  We know almost nothing about the game, all we know is that Ian is a skilled viral marketer.

Quote from: Elliot WilenI've only played GTA III, not all the way through, and I will cop to enjoying the content; in fact, I think that elements of the gameplay ultimately soured me on the game sooner than the content did. (I.e., I gave up on sniping that dude over at the waterfront, it was just too hard, while in terms of gameplay I think I enjoy 1st/3rd person shooters, RTS, and flight sims better.)

But did I take the content seriously? No, I took it as a seriously ironic take on both modern urban life and on pop-media portrayals of street life and organized crime. In short, pretty irresponsible, playful, dark comedy, more Pulp Fiction than Scarface. (And I love Pulp Fiction, while Scarface left me cold at best.)

I'd agree with all of that.

And yeah, some of the gameplay is not so good, it's just much of it is so great I keep pushing on, but at times I want to throw it at the wall.

Curiously, I did get more moral reaction with CoD2 which I finished last night, at times the sheer amount of killing did weary me and leave me feeling a bit revulsed, but then I got attacked by more enemies and had to fire too quickly to dwell on the point.

Quote from: J ArcaneWow. It's like I've stepped back into the 19th century.

So, tell us some more about the evil poor.  Maybe a little social Darwinism and white man's burden too.

You made me chuckle. If this was TBP I'd tell you to take the laugh point.

Quote from: droogI remain highly amused at the unsophisticated Puritanism displayed here and elsewhere. Like it or not, it is the 21st century. At least Pierce does some philosophical justification to back up his squeamishness.

Ahem.

Just because people in this day and age (and in all ages previously) do cut people's heads off and rape their neck holes, or firebomb villages, or slowly flay the skin of keetoms in their basements, does NOT mean that it has to be paraded about as an example of how sophisticated and "edgy" someone is. I'm fairly certain that most psychologists would say that people who are NOT at least slightly put off by such things are the kind of folks that society needs to keep an eye on.

Watching "Faces of Death" in the privacy of your home is one thing. Thinking yourself more enlightened than the plebs outside your door for doing so is another. Parading up and down the street showing it on a portable TV and tooting your own horn while doing so is yet another.

Quote from: WerekoalaAhem.

Just because people in this day and age (and in all ages previously) do cut people's heads off and rape their neck holes, or firebomb villages, or slowly flay the skin of keetoms in their basements, does NOT mean that it has to be paraded about as an example of how sophisticated and "edgy" someone is. I'm fairly certain that most psychologists would say that people who are NOT at least slightly put off by such things are the kind of folks that society needs to keep an eye on.

Oh, lighten up!

Quote from: BalbinusI've seen similar Dogs threads, people boasting about how kewl it was when their character blew some kid away (in a non-sexual sense I believe), it just comes across as a bit patheticand pampered, but I owned Dogs and nothing in it requires that.

True, again look to David R's post.

Quote from: RezendevousIt's so commercially unviable that it sold out it's run at GenCon.

If the print run is only 20 copies then that doesn't say much.

Quote from: RezendevousOne of the copies that was sold there was bought by yours truly.  And to say that people are mischaracterizing this game is a massive understatement.

So here's your chance to change my opinion. Tell me about the game and why I'm mischaracterizing it. In your own words, of course.

Quote from: gleichman1. They do in fact think the game encourages such play, and they do in fact think such play has an effect on the players- but they like that outcome and lie about their belief on that one point.

2. They don't really believe their own theories, or rather apply them when it suits them and ignore them when they don't.

It's simple.

• System Matters.
• So if your game is fucked-up and sucks, it's the system's fault, not the players.
• Unless that game is a Forge game, in which case everything good that happens is because of the system, and everything bad that happens is because of the players.

I don't see why this is a mystery to you. It's been their thing for a long time. For example, old Uncle Ronny told us that if you had no fun playing D&D or Vampire or whatever, it's because those games are fucked-up and made you crazy. But if you had no fun playing Sorcerer, it's because you didn't understand it, man.

Me, as you all know I say, "fuck system, people matter." Your game session is an expression of you. So if your game is twisted and fucked-up, it's you. If your game session is brilliant and interesting and fun, it's you. You, the player or GM, get the blame and the credit for everything that happens at the game table. The system's just a tool.

Some tools are better or wose for some jobs than others, but in the end it's a bad tradesman who blames his tools, and a modest tradesman who credits them. People matter to the outcome of a game session much much more than any system.

Quote from: walkerpit sounds like many of the people over there are expressing the same kind of kneejerk faux-morality that I'm hearing here. It's a natural human reaction for us wealthy citizens of the world. Theory doesn't come into play.

You're a fuckstick.

Quote from: BalbinusCuriously, I did get more moral reaction with CoD2 which I finished last night, at times the sheer amount of killing did weary me and leave me feeling a bit revulsed, but then I got attacked by more enemies and had to fire too quickly to dwell on the point.

Is that Call of Duty 2?

I have to say I'm such a CoD nut that I reinstalled CoD 1 for the third time last month. CoD2 didn't repel me, it was just more of the same to me, and wallowing too much in its own cinematesque railroadicity.

GTA was fun as long as it lasted, i.e. not very, because I had a way of getting the streets seriously crowded with tanks after about 5 mins. of gameplay. Also, I sucked at the stunts. The one where you jump off the ramp and hopefully across the canal? Well, I only ever figured out part 1 of that.

Quote from: KoltarWhat is so wrong with calling sick stuff...well "sick stuff" ?

I'd never want to game with someone who thought that violating an NPC's corpse made him a better gamer - Thats a twisted(WRONg twisted) individual I don't want at my game table.

To use that example to promote a game is almost equally wrong.

This is my point of view as well.  

It also breaks RPG.net's rules:

Quote from: RPG.net Rules & GuidelinesRule 5: Respect the audience. Do not post pornography and/or anything that can be considered inappropriate graphic sexual content in any format; this includes detailed descriptions of sex acts. Do not post links to pornography or otherwise inappropriate sexually explicit sites.

Yes, well, rules only apply to those not in the Clique over there, as I'm sure you know.

Actually, I'm not RPG.net alumni... so I don't really know who's who.  These were admins posting that stuff?  Or just friends of admins?

No and no.

Rpg.net is not Forge home turf, not by any stretch.

Ian Noble started the thread. He's generally a good guy, and most certainly not a shill, as somebody upthread suggested who clearly doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

The only GTA I've played is Vice City and part of its sequel, and those remind me of RoboCop.