Quote from: yosemitemike on December 30, 2024, 02:55:57 AM

Quote from: Omega on December 29, 2024, 10:57:27 PMExcept... not really.

Except yes obviously.  Are we looking at the same picture?  The first one has longer hair but is otherwise the same.  The second one has longer hair and no glasses.  The third is just the same guy in different clothes.  The fourth one is the same guy with hair dye and no glasses.  The other one is obviously the DM.  A couple of them are slightly idealized which is common in self-inserts.

Greetings!

Yeah, YosemiteMike, I see the obvious SELF_INSERT of the Players and the DM in that game. *Laughing* OF COURSE they self-insert! Geesus. What clowns, you know? And the artwork is just terrible.

It makes me wonder "Who the EFF are WOTC making this game for anymore?" You know? Right right. Yeah, *WE* are certainly not their target audience.

Omega? He is just being contrarian and jerky. He seems to like doing that. *Laughing*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 28, 2024, 08:08:45 PM...
I agree, but I'm curious which games you'd cite as examples. I'd really like a good middle-weight classic fantasy RPG I could settle on for running D&D settings. I've looked at several games and not found something that filled the niche for me.

There's almost none.

Old Swords Reign, with feats allowed gets close. Low fantasy gaming was close, but I didn't like some of the design choices made.

It is a very fine line to walk, because as you add stuff to a rules-lite base it's really easy to get to full 5e levels of fiddly.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 29, 2024, 11:03:38 AMThat's normal for all of the OSR. It's one of the benefits of the OSR, you don't have to give a tutorial of how to play, because the people getting into the OSR have almost certainly played D&D before.

The difference  between the traditional OSR and a game like ShadowDark is that most of the OSR's mechanical heavy lifting is derived from B/X or AD&D, which are complete games. Other than 'what is an RPG' and an example of play, you are essentially getting a variant of what was sold in the late 70's early 80's.

Whereas SD breaks from the traditional OSR model is by making a d20 "D&D" game by distilling 5e gameplay down to less than b/x levels of complexity. SD is so cut-down and abbreviated - it leaves out lots of little details that traditional OSR games like Lion and Dragon include as a matter of course. So by default SD relies a lot more on a GM's assumed knowledge of 'how D&D works' than most other well-known OSR offerings.

Which of course it can get away with, because it is largely drawing people from 5e's network effect.

Hmm, that's a good point.

Quote from: ForgottenF on December 28, 2024, 08:08:45 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on December 28, 2024, 07:33:46 PMI personally think that there is a sweet middle ground for design between 5e (which is deceptively fiddly), and something as lite as SD.

I agree, but I'm curious which games you'd cite as examples. I'd really like a good middle-weight classic fantasy RPG I could settle on for running D&D settings. I've looked at several games and not found something that filled the niche for me.

Tales of Argosa (formerly Low Fantasy Gaming). There's been a thread on it here before.

50% off, today only:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/479871/tales-of-argosa?src=DotD

Here's a list of features:

Quote from: ToA9 Classes: Artificer (or Alchemist variant), Barbarian, Bard, Cultist, Fighter, Monk, Ranger, Rogue & Magic User; only two of which involve magic.

9th Level max caps PC power levels.

Flatter HP Curve Most PCs will have approx 10-40 hit points over their nine levels.

Unique Features Every 3rd level design your own PC ability in conjunction with your GM, or choose from 40+ examples.

Roll Under for Attribute checks, making every stat point matter. Degrees of success via Great Successes and Terrible Failures. 

Roll High for attack & damage rolls.

Wisdom is split into Perception and Willpower. Perception mod applies to ranged attacks instead of Dex. 

Simple Skills grant a +1 bonus on relevant Attribute checks, but more importantly allow a PC to access their limited Reroll Pool if they fail. The Variant Rules chapter includes a further simplified "Class, Race & Background" combo to replace the skill list, if desired.   

Minor, Major & Rescue Exploits on top of damage, not in lieu, promote improvised stunts and moments of
greatness.

Fast Initiative Side based initiative, but a different PC rolls each round. Initiative is a derived stat (average of Dex & Int). If the PC makes their Initiative check the party goes first, otherwise the monsters do. On a Great Success the party also acts before any Heavies or Bosses.

Diminishing Luck attribute replaces saving throws, ratcheting up the danger with each save.

Fierce Battle Martial Exploits, Nat 19s, Crits, Fumble ripostes, Morale checks, Trauma rolls, Heavies, and Bosses make for action packed battles! When reduced to zero hp, healing takes 1d3 minutes (magical or otherwise). Players don't roll to find out if their PC lives until after the combat, when an ally checks the body.

Unbalanced Encounters ToA is designed for unbalanced combat. Clear escape rules put the fate of the PCs in the players' hands - do they fight another round, or run?

Short Rests PCs make two Willpowers checks during a Short Rest to attempt to recover hp and class abilities, encouraging them to press on rather than camp.

Dark & Dangerous Magic Roll to Cast and DDM tests threaten to unleash Veil monsters, madness, mutation, or worse!

Downtime Rules for Carousing, Pets, Black Market Trade, Masterforged Gear, Gambling, Recovery, Potion Brewing, Magical Research, Scroll Inscribing, Rumours, and more.

Emergent Play & Solo Support via mechanics, procedures, and massive GM Toolbox to facilitate improv, including: Lone Wolf PC rules, Range Bands (for smoother Theatre of the Mind), Reaction & Activity rolls, Major Exploits & Rescues, Morale checks, Consult the Bones Dice Oracle, Read the Signs Card Oracle, Hexploration Procedures, Dungeon Tally & Events, Travel Events, Random Encounters, XP Awards, NPC Tables, Treasure Tables, Madness Table, Disease & Parasite Table, Trap Tables, Dungeon Generator, and more!

Easy Compatibility with most OSR and 5e style adventures; just swap out monster stats, treasure, and spells for ToA equivalents, and you're good to go! We've been playtesting with adventures from LFG, Forbidden Lands, Dragonbane, B4 The Lost City, Hot Springs Island, The Toxic Wood, Mines of Perinthos, and very recently Moria (from The One Ring, alpha PDF). Conversion tips are included.

Rules as Guidelines The GM is the final authority on all rules, which are expected to be tweaked to fit table preferences. The Variant Rules chapter includes suggestions such as more/less deadly, less dangerous magic, movement in feet rather than range bands, individual Initiative checks, etc.

Creative Commons Licence ToA has been released under CC BY-SA 4.0. You can create and sell your own supplements, adventures, etc, without needing any authority from us.

(Disclaimer: I'm not associated with the company in any way.)

Another solid choice in the mid-weight fantasy realm is Worlds Without Number, which has a free version:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/348809/worlds-without-number-free-edition

Features:

QuoteSword and sorcery heroes of blade, cunning, and spell. The proven OSR-compatible character creation system of Stars Without Number is redone here for a fantasy world of blade and black magic.
   
OSR-compatible rules, allowing you to plunder decades of existing adventure material for your play. You can even pull in Stars Without Number content, as it's fully compatible.
   
The Gyre region of the far-future Latter Earth, a premade sandbox for quick play. Venture forth to clash with the sinister powers that gather in the shadow of the waning rule of the Reaping King.
   
Worldbuilding tools crafted to the renowned Sine Nomine standard. Did you like the hundred different world tags in SWN? Then have two hundred inspirational tags to help you build ruins, courts, communities, and wilderness points of interest. Grab a wealth of tools for building histories, societies, governments, religions, and geography, all written with a keen eye toward producing good, playable content for your adventuring group.
   
Adventure creation tools to soothe the pangs of a working GM, with guides for building adventures out of combat, exploration, social, and investigative challenges. Use the tags you picked in the worldbuilding section to speed up your creation of a good night's gaming.
   
Faction rules for fantasy worlds, with dark cults, fierce lords, grasping abbots, and greedy merchants all serving to keep your world in motion even when the PCs aren't on the scene.