Quote from: Mercurius on September 11, 2024, 11:52:13 PMAnyhow, part of the appeal of Shadowdark--aside from the physical product and the streamlined "neo-OSR" rules--is that it doesn't feed into the culture war BS on either side. Quite frankly, a lot of the beef I see for Shadowdark is coming from edgelordy righties who are pissed that the creator hasn't pledged her allegiance to their ideology. The suspicion seems to be that If she's not one of us, she's one of them. I mean, she's a woman! She looks vaguely leftish ...maybe? So that puts certain people off.

Kelsey takes an "actively Neutral" stance in banning politics from SD social media. She interacts happily with right wing as well as left wing OSR figures. From what I see on X she really gets more flak for this from the Left than from the Right, there are a lot more cancelpigs on the Left. I've seen her accused of being "pro BrOSR" because she's friendly with people who are friendly with Jeffro sort of thing. This has resulted in Shadowdark social media sites being much more pleasant sites than most OSR sites on Reddit and Facebook, which are largely controlled by SJWs from what I've seen. 

One thing that sucks about Shadowdark though is there is no Hills encounter table in the core book. An unforgivable lapse.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 05:35:14 AMWell, that's a fair point. That said, the number of RPGs that actually "feed into the culture war" from the right are very few.

Yeah, I agree. That's probably because of demographics - there are (as far as I can tell) more left-leaning types in the RPG community, and of course the corporate element, at least from Hasbro (i.e. corporations virtue signaling their wokeness).

Quote from: S'mon on September 12, 2024, 06:52:34 AM

Quote from: Mercurius on September 11, 2024, 11:52:13 PMAnyhow, part of the appeal of Shadowdark--aside from the physical product and the streamlined "neo-OSR" rules--is that it doesn't feed into the culture war BS on either side. Quite frankly, a lot of the beef I see for Shadowdark is coming from edgelordy righties who are pissed that the creator hasn't pledged her allegiance to their ideology. The suspicion seems to be that If she's not one of us, she's one of them. I mean, she's a woman! She looks vaguely leftish ...maybe? So that puts certain people off.

Kelsey takes an "actively Neutral" stance in banning politics from SD social media. She interacts happily with right wing as well as left wing OSR figures. From what I see on X she really gets more flak for this from the Left than from the Right, there are a lot more cancelpigs on the Left. I've seen her accused of being "pro BrOSR" because she's friendly with people who are friendly with Jeffro sort of thing. This has resulted in Shadowdark social media sites being much more pleasant sites than most OSR sites on Reddit and Facebook, which are largely controlled by SJWs from what I've seen. 

Good to know - and I generally agree, that the left is more prone to the cancel game.

Quote from: Mercurius on September 12, 2024, 08:19:23 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 05:35:14 AMWell, that's a fair point. That said, the number of RPGs that actually "feed into the culture war" from the right are very few.

Yeah, I agree. That's probably because of demographics - there are (as far as I can tell) more left-leaning types in the RPG community, and of course the corporate element, at least from Hasbro (i.e. corporations virtue signaling their wokeness).

No, it's not just that. It's that most right-wing gamers DO NOT WANT to make games that are thinly-veiled ideological propaganda. They want to make games that are just for gaming, and their political position is not shoved into their books.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 09:27:21 AM

Quote from: Mercurius on September 12, 2024, 08:19:23 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 05:35:14 AMWell, that's a fair point. That said, the number of RPGs that actually "feed into the culture war" from the right are very few.

Yeah, I agree. That's probably because of demographics - there are (as far as I can tell) more left-leaning types in the RPG community, and of course the corporate element, at least from Hasbro (i.e. corporations virtue signaling their wokeness).

No, it's not just that. It's that most right-wing gamers DO NOT WANT to make games that are thinly-veiled ideological propaganda. They want to make games that are just for gaming, and their political position is not shoved into their books.

The operative word is "most," which applies the other way. That is, most left-wing gamers don't either, it is just that there's a rather loud segment that do and it is fueled by larger social dynamics and corporate elements. This is part of the problem: the assumption by some that if you're left-leaning in any way, you want to proselytize about any and all SJW pet issues, as if the left is one monolithic, blue-haired bloc. It goes back to the tribalism that I mentioned upthread: and people on either side "signal" their allegiance, and if they don't they're suspect. A lot of folks that are left, even far-left in some ways, don't care about such things - just like a lot of folks that are right.

Lefties run the gamut from authoritarian types to libertarian types - just like righties.

Quote from: Mercurius on September 12, 2024, 08:19:23 AMYeah, I agree. That's probably because of demographics - there are (as far as I can tell) more left-leaning types in the RPG community, and of course the corporate element, at least from Hasbro (i.e. corporations virtue signaling their wokeness).

  WotC has been progressive from its roots, if the infamous Salon article by John Tynes can be trusted, and Paizo even more so. I think a lot of it is that the two biggest players in the industry are centered in a part of the United States notorious for strident and self-righteous progessivism.

Quote from: Mercurius on September 12, 2024, 10:12:43 AMThat is, most left-wing gamers don't either, it is just that there's a rather loud segment that do and it is fueled by larger social dynamics and corporate elements.

There could also be a fair bit of difference between what left-wing gamers want to see and what left-wing game designers/writers want to produce.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 12, 2024, 10:41:59 AM

Quote from: Mercurius on September 12, 2024, 08:19:23 AMYeah, I agree. That's probably because of demographics - there are (as far as I can tell) more left-leaning types in the RPG community, and of course the corporate element, at least from Hasbro (i.e. corporations virtue signaling their wokeness).

  WotC has been progressive from its roots, if the infamous Salon article by John Tynes can be trusted, and Paizo even more so. I think a lot of it is that the two biggest players in the industry are centered in a part of the United States notorious for strident and self-righteous progessivism.

IMHO there's a difference between "progressive" and full on "woke mind virus".  A lot of these companies were progressive, true, but it's only the last few years where they've gone full "if you don't support left-leaning politics, especially identity politics around LGBT+, you're a bigot and a nazi" sort of nonsense.  It used to be that these people kept it to themselves.  Instead you now have prominent people spouting leftist, communist crap like calling anyone supporting the republicans a fascist and telling them they're not wanted in the game or community and should be ostracized for having different political beliefs.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 09:27:21 AM

Quote from: Mercurius on September 12, 2024, 08:19:23 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 05:35:14 AMWell, that's a fair point. That said, the number of RPGs that actually "feed into the culture war" from the right are very few.

Yeah, I agree. That's probably because of demographics - there are (as far as I can tell) more left-leaning types in the RPG community, and of course the corporate element, at least from Hasbro (i.e. corporations virtue signaling their wokeness).

No, it's not just that. It's that most right-wing gamers DO NOT WANT to make games that are thinly-veiled ideological propaganda. They want to make games that are just for gaming, and their political position is not shoved into their books.

One advantage I think that right leaning (and centrist) creators have is that they're not afraid to use popular tropes that left leaning creators mock or outright thing are "problematic".

Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 12, 2024, 01:01:57 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 09:27:21 AM

Quote from: Mercurius on September 12, 2024, 08:19:23 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 05:35:14 AMWell, that's a fair point. That said, the number of RPGs that actually "feed into the culture war" from the right are very few.

Yeah, I agree. That's probably because of demographics - there are (as far as I can tell) more left-leaning types in the RPG community, and of course the corporate element, at least from Hasbro (i.e. corporations virtue signaling their wokeness).

No, it's not just that. It's that most right-wing gamers DO NOT WANT to make games that are thinly-veiled ideological propaganda. They want to make games that are just for gaming, and their political position is not shoved into their books.

One advantage I think that right leaning (and centrist) creators have is that they're not afraid to use popular tropes that left leaning creators mock or outright thing are "problematic".

Well yes. I mean, most right wing game designers just make RPG products that have no explicit politics. But they do stuff like have goblins that act like goblins, or have medieval setting where people actually behave like its NOT 2024 Seattle, and the Left therefore claims its evil.

Some leftists called Sword & Caravan racist, because I am writing about non-white cultures and am not of those cultures (like, only an Uzbek could write about Uzbeks in an RPG setting). Others claim that Baptism of Fire is "fascist" because it has Christianity and doesn't present Christianity as a bad thing.

That's kind of the point on the new PHB: everything heroic is "evil" to the left, and everything traditional is evil to the left, so all they have left is having the PCs eating diversity foods while showing off your outfit and talking about your sex life. THAT is their vision of the future of D&D.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 07:17:11 PMThat's kind of the point on the new PHB: everything heroic is "evil" to the left, and everything traditional is evil to the left, so all they have left is having the PCs eating diversity foods while showing off your outfit and talking about your sex life. THAT is their vision of the future of D&D.

Well, the (largely) shit art in the 2024 PHB might follow along with your take on their "vision" but the mechanics don't do anything to back that up. The amount of game mechanics that apply to "eating diversity foods" or wearing fashionable outfits or talking about (or having) sex is practically nil. Instead the mechanics are focussed on the same type of adventuring they always have been.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 07:40:07 PMWell, the (largely) shit art in the 2024 PHB might follow along with your take on their "vision" but the mechanics don't do anything to back that up. The amount of game mechanics that apply to "eating diversity foods" or wearing fashionable outfits or talking about (or having) sex is practically nil. Instead the mechanics are focussed on the same type of adventuring they always have been.

  It is not at all unheard of for the tone of the game's art, fiction, and adventures to run in a direction decidedly orthogonal to the mechanics. I submit most of AD&D 2nd Edition as evidence.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 07:40:07 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 07:17:11 PMThat's kind of the point on the new PHB: everything heroic is "evil" to the left, and everything traditional is evil to the left, so all they have left is having the PCs eating diversity foods while showing off your outfit and talking about your sex life. THAT is their vision of the future of D&D.

Well, the (largely) shit art in the 2024 PHB might follow along with your take on their "vision" but the mechanics don't do anything to back that up. The amount of game mechanics that apply to "eating diversity foods" or wearing fashionable outfits or talking about (or having) sex is practically nil. Instead the mechanics are focussed on the same type of adventuring they always have been.

The mechanics might support the same old adventuring as always but what about published scenarios that outline the activities that PCs actually do? Granted there are no published adventures for 2024 D&D yet but if the ones published for the 2014 rules in the past few years are any indication then they don't support a whole lot that the mechanics seem to support.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 12, 2024, 07:40:07 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 12, 2024, 07:17:11 PMThat's kind of the point on the new PHB: everything heroic is "evil" to the left, and everything traditional is evil to the left, so all they have left is having the PCs eating diversity foods while showing off your outfit and talking about your sex life. THAT is their vision of the future of D&D.

Well, the (largely) shit art in the 2024 PHB might follow along with your take on their "vision" but the mechanics don't do anything to back that up. The amount of game mechanics that apply to "eating diversity foods" or wearing fashionable outfits or talking about (or having) sex is practically nil. Instead the mechanics are focussed on the same type of adventuring they always have been.

Except that now orcs aren't evil. Drow aren't evil. Mind flayers aren't evil. Race doesn't really exist anymore as a category. There's all kinds of changes that were put into parts of the rules for ideological purposes.