I like it when people give specific reasons detailing the mechanics and setting that distinguish it from other games on the market. I prefer this over general, abstract statements about the setting or feel of the game.

Quote from: James McMurraySorry, what I meant was more something that I can download without even needing the book, that encapsulates all the rules needed to play it including pregenerated PCs and a layout of what each character can do.

Ah, you mean something like the step-by-step demos and quickstart kits released by various companies as PDF samples of their products. That's somewhat difficult with Nobilis since it constantly assumes that the course of events will be customized to the characters created by the players, and the themes of the game will largely consist of what they bring to the table. Still, for instance running the "Day of Broken Wings" scenario with the familia of Ambrolam, Parasiel or Sakhrat as pregens shouldn't cause any trouble at all: the miraculous battle between Ada and Nephele is written down as a blow-by-blow account of what will take place unless the players take action, and that's probably the closest thing to linearity that you'll ever see in a Nob adventure. After all, it's not a game that's very friendly to railroading.

Quote from: GrimGentAh, you mean something like the step-by-step demos and quickstart kits released by various companies as PDF samples of their products. That's somewhat difficult with Nobilis since it constantly assumes that the course of events will be customized to the characters created by the players, and the themes of the game will largely consist of what they bring to the table. Still, for instance running the "Day of Broken Wings" scenario with the familia of Ambrolam, Parasiel or Sakhrat as pregens shouldn't cause any trouble at all: the miraculous battle between Ada and Nephele is written down as a blow-by-blow account of what will take place unless the players take action, and that's probably the closest thing to linearity that you'll ever see in a Nob adventure. After all, it's not a game that's very friendly to railroading.

Understandable. It just makes it harder for it to meet that particular bullet point for me. Not a big deal. I still think it could be a cool game, but diceless doesn't quite cut it for my group. If I ever do decide to try a diceless game with them, I'll probably do Nobilis before Amber. I really prefer Amber's setting, but Nobilis still has resource management in it, so it's not a game comprised of mostly GM interpretations. Then if that goes over well, we move on to Amber.

Quote from: James McMurrayIt just makes it harder for it to meet that particular bullet point for me. Not a big deal.

I mean, it only requires a slight adjustment to the initial set-up: make it so that there were originally three Inquisitorial Chancels instead of four, and now that one of them has been destroyed, the newly appointed replacement is Sakhrat the Gray Mask as described in the book rather than the Magister Ram-Khvastra created by the players. Then just present Helissent de Reymes, Lance Romenel, Idony Saint-Germain and Annabelle Zupay as PC options, and voilá: instant pregens.

It's still not an intro adventure that one picks up in order to get a feel for the game, it's an adventure the GM has to create large chunks of after having already bought and digested the rulebook.

I understand its usefulness as a quick piece or start of a long campaign, but that's not useful to me in deciding whether I want to buy a game or not. Doesn't mean it's bad, just that it doesn't apply here.

When I was a boy, the clued-in old dudes (= twenty-somethings) at the store kept trying to persuade me to ditch AD&D for Rolemaster or RuneQuest, on account of these latter two being serious games.

I should have listened to them!

But I just never listen to sales pitches, ever. I do read the "Sell me" threads all the time, because, unlike the pitcher, I can shut them down ad lib.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstSo what gets you when you're curious about a game?

The game's concept and aesthetic presentation.

Quote from: Zachary The Firstwhat turns you off?

Folks who tell me that their game is revolutionary or suitable for all types of play.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiFolks who tell me that their game is revolutionary or suitable for all types of play.

Addendum: Generally games that are "the bestest [input genre] RPG evar".

On line, I like to hear the pros and the cons up front.  Cons aren't always bad; your cons might be my leg-jigglin' pros.

In the meat, I like to see enthusiasm -- and a I like to see the product.  Jeff Combos sold us on HEX because on the 4th day of GenCon, he was still jazzed about his game.  He put a copy in our hands, and he told us up front what the game was and what the game wasn't.  He was frank, excited and friendly.  The game looked good; sold!

In the end, I am final arbiter of what I buy and do not buy, but I like to hear other opinions, too.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!leg-jigglin' pros.

How much do those cost these days?

Quote from: James McMurrayHow much do those cost these days?

More than a half-and-half, but far less than a dirty sanchez or a cleveland steamer...

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!On line, I like to hear the pros and the cons up front.  Cons aren't always bad; your cons might be my leg-jigglin' pros.

And some people's pro's are so much my cons!

"It gives you absolute freedom of character creation!"
"The GM has to do what you say!"
"The rules just "fade into the background"!" (*coff*)
"(...) personality mechanics (...)"

Quote from: Caesar SlaadAnd some people's pro's are so much my cons!

You forgot "It has a really unusual diceless mechanic."

Quote from: Caesar Slaad"The rules just "fade into the background"!" (*coff*)

To which the immediate response should be "Oh, so you used a shitty font?"

Quote from: DrewTo which the immediate response should be "Oh, so you used a shitty font?"

"No, poor ink!"

-clash