DCC is one of those books that begs to be used on sight; gorgeous old school art and a gonzo Jack Vance aesthetic. What always trips me up is the lack of fleshed out content (random magic items, timekeeping and movement rules for dungeon exploration, a full bestiary of strange creatures, etc.). I know the idea is that all monsters and magic items should be unique, but for me a huge part of a D&Dish experience is random monster and magic item tables and rules for dungeon exploration. DCC feels like an intro version of the perfect RPG for me, I just need more meat on the bones. Has anyone found a book that provides these things for DCC in a way that's a natural fit? Every monster/magic item book I've looked into doesn't really fit DCC, and then I just get frustrated and go back to 5e. But then that DCC book spine calls...
I would imagine that whatever is missing could be ported over from another OSR system. I'm not sure though as I'm not that familiar with the mechanics of DCC, I haven't really sat down and read mine yet I just keep getting lost in the illustrations.
Quote from: Arkansan;834696I would imagine that whatever is missing could be ported over from another OSR system.
That's been what I've done, and seen other folks doing. Take whatever item/monster/spell you like and DCC-icize.
I'm actually glad Goodman isn't shoveling out shedloads of 'official' rules supplements... though there are some great third party endeavors that provide new settings, new Patrons, new critters.
Fire on the Velvet Horizon is the most recent book I've been drawing DCC inspiration from... it being mostly system agnostic.
Angels, Demons & Beings Between is a useful book of DCC patrons but also has some new critters and spells.
Critters, Creatures & Denizens is a useful resource for designing DCC monsters and has a small example bestiary in it.
There are also zines like
Crawl that give a lot of support for the core flavor... others like
Crawljammer,
Crawling Under A Broken Moon,
Six Guns & Sorcery and
Metal Gods of Ur Hadad support alternative settings with new creatures, spells and equipment.
I'd love to see the same stuff as the OP — patrons and spells, in particular, are a hassle to write up.
Angels, Demons & Beings Between is okay, I guess, though I expected something more archetypal.
If anyone's statted up classic entities from D&D lore (Orcus, Demogorgon, the Dukes of Hell, etc.) and/or from literature (Lovecraft's Great Old Ones and Elder Gods, Moorcock's Lords of Law and Chaos, etc.) or thinly veiled pastiches thereof, that'd be sweet.
Quote from: The Butcher;834734I'd love to see the same stuff as the OP — patrons and spells, in particular, are a hassle to write up.
Those two are the elements that are most unique to DCC and so harder to borrow straight from other sources (though there are guidelines for quicky spell conversion).
Petty Gods seems to me a good source of inspiration for new Patrons but there'd still be a lot of work to do.
How about rules for dungeon crawling; time, distance, torches running out, etc? I feel like DCC needs an ADCC supplement.
DCC seems to be what OD&D was before Greyhawk. The rules are designed specifically to empower the DM to be heavy-handed, all while operating under the guise of "randomness".
That said, just use crap from AD&D, but ALL the cursed stuff and "gotcha!" monsters. Throw in a little Warhammer for good measure. Done.
Quote from: RabidWookie;834917How about rules for dungeon crawling; time, distance, torches running out, etc? I feel like DCC needs an ADCC supplement.
I guess I don't see such things as a big hole in the rules... but there are plenty of nifty suggestions out there for how to manage such things... such as Faster Monkey's 'Turntracker' (YT Video) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9jwAgPKga0)
Quote from: RabidWookie;834917How about rules for dungeon crawling; time, distance, torches running out, etc? I feel like DCC needs an ADCC supplement.
I usually just use the BECM rules when I need to fill in those details. I love DCC.l but use it in more of a standard D&D style (sometimes a goblin is just a goblin). But I also like very unique magic items.
Remember the wizard spells for swords,staves, rings, etc are also used for random magic item generation for treasure placement.
I have championed more spells and such on the Goodman boars but I also have to remember that each DCC spell actually "covers" more than 1 D&D spell. Example: Fireball ranges all the way up to a Meteor Swarm type spell.
Really after I sat down and examined what each spell can do on the high end, they really do cover most of the D&D bases.
I do agree a good bestiary book would be awesome with some more standardized monsters and some "pre-rolled" DCC type critters. If you have not checked out Monster Alphabet, I highly recommend that but I admit it is not quite even what I think of in "bestiary".
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;834924I usually just use the BECM rules when I need to fill in those details. I love DCC.l but use it in more of a standard D&D style (sometimes a goblin is just a goblin). But I also like very unique magic items.
Remember the wizard spells for swords,staves, rings, etc are also used for random magic item generation for treasure placement.
I have championed more spells and such on the Goodman boars but I also have to remember that each DCC spell actually "covers" more than 1 D&D spell. Example: Fireball ranges all the way up to a Meteor Swarm type spell.
Really after I sat down and examined what each spell can do on the high end, they really do cover most of the D&D bases.
I do agree a good bestiary book would be awesome with some more standardized monsters and some "pre-rolled" DCC type critters. If you have not checked out Monster Alphabet, I highly recommend that but I admit it is not quite even what I think of in "bestiary".
I'm with you, I want DCC to be D&D with a gonzo 1e aesthetic and a more fun magic system. Does Rules Cyclopedia/BECM work with DCC without conversion?
Quote from: RabidWookie;834939I'm with you, I want DCC to be D&D with a gonzo 1e aesthetic and a more fun magic system. Does Rules Cyclopedia/BECM work with DCC without conversion?
Yes I use BECM to fill in some gaps without any conversion. YMMV. Mostly out of the Expert book which I keep by my side.
Here's a list of some of the things I use.
Expanded gear/prices (I sometimes inflate prices on the fly)
Overland travel, ships, henchmen
Rules for henchmen hiring/mmorale but I base it on DCC personality score instead of CHA.
If I need a random treasure I will usually roll on the Expert table.
If I need a wondering monster I use the 2e Monster Cyclone diamond charts.
Sometimes I pull a monster straight out of BECM. Invert the AC. Hp and damage are usually the same. Attack bonus = HD for most.
Level drain is out (even if I am playing BECM.) Convert to ability score drain that seems right.
Level drain attacks on a DCC level spread of 1 to 10 is just nuts.
Try skipping the funnel rolling level 1 characters (blasphemy on the Goodman boards). Add 1d4 hp to level 1 characters. I still roll random stats but you can let players sort to taste stats to give them more control over the type of character they want to play or use the point swap from D&D.
I think those things will give you more of the D&D feel and keep many of the cool DCC things intact: deeds, magic, thieves, crits, etc.
Oh yeah saving throws.... use character class/ level that seems closest to monster in question.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;834953Yes I use BECM to fill in some gaps without any conversion. YMMV. Mostly out of the Expert book which I keep by my side.
Here's a list of some of the things I use.
Expanded gear/prices (I sometimes inflate prices on the fly)
Overland travel, ships, henchmen
Rules for henchmen hiring/mmorale but I base it on DCC personality score instead of CHA.
If I need a random treasure I will usually roll on the Expert table.
If I need a wondering monster I use the 2e Monster Cyclone diamond charts.
Sometimes I pull a monster straight out of BECM. Invert the AC. Hp and damage are usually the same. Attack bonus = HD for most.
Level drain is out (even if I am playing BECM.) Convert to ability score drain that seems right.
Level drain attacks on a DCC level spread of 1 to 10 is just nuts.
Try skipping the funnel rolling level 1 characters (blasphemy on the Goodman boards). Add 1d4 hp to level 1 characters. I still roll random stats but you can let players sort to taste stats to give them more control over the type of character they want to play or use the point swap from D&D.
I think those things will give you more of the D&D feel and keep many of the cool DCC things intact: deeds, magic, thieves, crits, etc.
Thanks for the detailed advice! I love DCC, but it's such a cop out IMO when Goodman writes "we deliberately left out x (magic item list, bestiary, more equipment, etc) since so many other books have them". I bought your book because I want to play your game. If I wanted to constantly reference books I already have I'd be playing those games in the first place.
Quote from: RabidWookie;835000Thanks for the detailed advice! I love DCC, but it's such a cop out IMO when Goodman writes "we deliberately left out x (magic item list, bestiary, more equipment, etc) since so many other books have them". I bought your book because I want to play your game. If I wanted to constantly reference books I already have I'd be playing those games in the first place.
I took a very different meaning from the book. To me, it said "these are things you will probably house-rule anyway, so have at it!"
Quote from: RabidWookie;835000Thanks for the detailed advice! I love DCC, but it's such a cop out IMO when Goodman writes "we deliberately left out x (magic item list, bestiary, more equipment, etc) since so many other books have them". I bought your book because I want to play your game. If I wanted to constantly reference books I already have I'd be playing those games in the first place.
Believe it or not, this approah makes more sense to me than endless lists of equipment I'm not going to use anyway. I mean, books are finite, and if you had to choose between the whole Patrons mehanic and a list of equipment you have in many other books, which would you rather have?
Of course, not all approaches appeal equally to everyonne, but calling it a cop-out is going too far IMO.
Quote from: AsenRG;835056Believe it or not, this approah makes more sense to me than endless lists of equipment I'm not going to use anyway. I mean, books are finite, and if you had to choose between the whole Patrons mehanic and a list of equipment you have in many other books, which would you rather have?
Just get C&S 2nd edition if you need a list of equipment. It's literally everything you could possibly think of, along with weights and prices.
Quote from: Brad;835064Just get C&S 2nd edition if you need a list of equipment. It's literally everything you could possibly think of, along with weights and prices.
I've got ACKS already for that, but yeah, that's exactly my point:D!
Quote from: AsenRG;835066I've got ACKS already for that, but yeah, that's exactly my point:D!
Absolutely. Too bad this (http://www.icewebring.com/ICE_Products/Misc/SS_5703_10_ft_Pole.php) is out of print...
Quote from: AsenRG;835056Believe it or not, this approah makes more sense to me than endless lists of equipment I'm not going to use anyway. I mean, books are finite, and if you had to choose between the whole Patrons mehanic and a list of equipment you have in many other books, which would you rather have?
Of course, not all approaches appeal equally to everyonne, but calling it a cop-out is going too far IMO.
You could take out stuff like the adventures that will only get used once or twice and put those online instead to make room, and an equipment list doesn't need to take up a ton of space. Or release an Advanced DCC supplement, I know Goodman is anti-splat book and I applaud him for that but one supplement book isn't going to hurt anything.
Quote from: Brad;835087Absolutely. Too bad this (http://www.icewebring.com/ICE_Products/Misc/SS_5703_10_ft_Pole.php) is out of print...
:D
Quote from: RabidWookie;835111You could take out stuff like the adventures that will only get used once or twice and put those online instead to make room,
That's even more room freed, not an argument to put the equipment lists back (especially since I'm going to have to change them for my setting anyway:)).
Quoteand an equipment list doesn't need to take up a ton of space.
ACKS seems to think otherwise. Or look at the supplement Brad linked to;).
QuoteOr release an Advanced DCC supplement, I know Goodman is anti-splat book and I applaud him for that but one supplement book isn't going to hurt anything.
Releasing Advanced DCC would imply that everyone not using it isn't "advanced". Again, I'm fully with Goodman's position.
Besides, the goal of DCC isn't to give the players a D&D-like experience. It's to give them the experience D&D was going for, but didn't quite succeed, namely of being an S&S character;). Long equipment lists are more or less counter-productive to that.
Quote from: AsenRG;835191:D
That's even more room freed, not an argument to put the equipment lists back (especially since I'm going to have to change them for my setting anyway:)).
ACKS seems to think otherwise. Or look at the supplement Brad linked to;).
Releasing Advanced DCC would imply that everyone not using it isn't "advanced". Again, I'm fully with Goodman's position.
Besides, the goal of DCC isn't to give the players a D&D-like experience. It's to give them the experience D&D was going for, but didn't quite succeed, namely of being an S&S character;). Long equipment lists are more or less counter-productive to that.
Ok, how about "DCC Arcana"?
In my DCC campaign I've made use of just about every old-school and OSR book I own at some point or another; and even a couple of things that probably didn't fit that bill.
Quote from: RabidWookie;835311Ok, how about "DCC Arcana"?
I would buy and play the hell out of a more AD&Desque DCC, whatever it's called. DCC Arcana would be a good name.
Quote from: RabidWookie;835311Ok, how about "DCC Arcana"?
You mean another Patrons supplement, I guess;)?
You know, the Appendix P rules that I've put in an appendix at the back of the Dark Albion book (to be released very soon!) has a somewhat DCC-esque feel to it, but is closer to old-school D&D.