I rather like the idea of rewarding the racial niches that exist in D&D.  Elves should be good wizards.  Orcs should be good barbarians, etc.  So, I think the idea of a favored class is good.  I just don't much care for the implementation in 3E.  I don't want to penalize anyone for playing against type.  I would like to reward them for playing to type, though.
 
The only idea I've ever heard, besides the XP penalty for multiclassing, is to grant an extra skill point to characters for the levels which they take "in class".  Has anyone tried this?
 
Anyone have a better idea?

I've never really liked the way favored classes are implemented. They don't make the race better at the class; they mean that a member of the race can easily pick up a few levels in the class while doing something else. Elves don't necessarily make the best wizards by the standard rules.

The idea of an extra skill point when taking the favored class actually seems like an elegant solution; it mirrors the human advantages of all favored classes/universal extra skill point. I may have to try this at some time.

In my own games, I usually simply ignore multiclassing penalties altogether. One thing I do is give nonhumans some starting equipment bonuses related to their favored class, as "that's just what they grew up with." A nice perk without being too unbalancing.

An extra skill point is a simple and interesting way of simulating this.

Allowing alternative/replacement class levels is another way I like. It can serve racial or regional  stereotypes well, too.


Chacal

So the only advantage a human wizard would have over an elven wizard is one bonus feat.

Does one bonus feat equal all the racial abilities of an elf?

Quote from: SobekElves should be good wizards.

Personally I think they should be druids and rangers, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

I have two ideas.

1: Use the substitution levels from the Races of... books. Most classes have pretty advantageous sub-levels for their favored classes.
2. Give them some sort of bonus for sticking with their favored class. I believe the Conan RPG gives a bonus feat at 5th, 10th and 15th level in that class.

Then again, you could take the approach championied by Keith "Eberron" Baker, which is that "favored class" doesn't mean "the class most of them focus on", but rather "the class most of them at least dabble in". So even great elven warriors know a few spells, great dwarven wizards know how to
fight, and great halfling barbarians know how to sneak.

The only incentive to taking a "Favored Class" is for multiclassing.  I don't penalize for multiclassing.  I like the d20 Modern approach of encouraging it if that's what a player wants.  I have no problem with a wizard player taking a level of fighter just to get the weapons training.

That having been said, to maintain that delicate game balance that D&D3.5 has, if you're wanting to provide incentive to someone for taking a specific class you have to give that same incentive to Humans for whatever class they select at first level.  It's only fair.

Quote from: TrainzSo the only advantage a human wizard would have over an elven wizard is one bonus feat.

Does one bonus feat equal all the racial abilities of an elf?

You seem to be forgetting that humans have a favoured class, too.  They just get to choose it.

Either that or you're just being a contrary asshat.  


I think the racial substitution levels idea sounds interesting.  The only exposure I've had to them is with some halfling barbarian RSL's in Dragon (actually, come to think of it, they had something for some elven class, too), but the idea does look neat in principle.

Quote from: CyberzombieYou seem to be forgetting that humans have a favoured class, too.  They just get to choose it.

They don't strickly choose it just happens to be whichever class is highest. If you gave a bonus skill point to their highest class, and let them choose when they are even that would be okay I suppose.

Also willpax original comment about the extra skill point.

QuoteThe idea of an extra skill point when taking the favored class actually seems like an elegant solution; it mirrors the human advantages of all favored classes/universal extra skill point. I may have to try this at some time.

Sort of implied humans already had the advantage, and so wouldn't get it on top of the bonus skill point they already get. So I don't think Trainz had forgot or was being "a contrary asshat".

Quote from: BagpussThey don't strickly choose it just happens to be whichever class is highest. If you gave a bonus skill point to their highest class, and let them choose when they are even that would be okay I suppose.

I'd personally have them choose a class that it applies to.  The "whichever is highest" thing doesn't make much sense in the standard rules, so it really wouldn't make much sense in this context.

Quote from: BagpussSort of implied humans already had the advantage, and so wouldn't get it on top of the bonus skill point they already get. So I don't think Trainz had forgot or was being "a contrary asshat".

Well that would be a pretty fucking dumb way to do things.    If that was what Willpax meant, then I guess Trainz had a good reason to be snarky there!

I lean towards ignoring favored class in most games. I don't see it as adding anything really. Of course I mostly use the AE rules for multiclassing and fractional save and BAB advancement, so YMMV.

Fractional saves and BAB are the shit, mang!  I never munchkinize without 'em.  When you're taking 10 classes in 12 levels, those fractions add up fast!  

Yeah, I'm not going to win any munchkinizing contests around here. I'm an English major, after all.

Maybe I misunderstand things, but I do think that the bonus skill point and bonus feat at first level are pretty big because the player gets to choose. What the other races lose out on is flexibility, and I think that skill points are such a constraint almost across the board that I find that to be a big, big bonus.

Having a demihuman class get a bonus skill point only for one class is great if you plan on taking that class; the racial bonuses are great if you happen to be in situations where they apply. The human bonuses help no matter what concept you are pursuing; that flexibility is worth something.

So, I suppose the best test would be: if a rule like this were in place, would anyone play a non-elven wizard?

Quote from: CyberzombieI think the racial substitution levels idea sounds interesting.  The only exposure I've had to them is with some halfling barbarian RSL's in Dragon (actually, come to think of it, they had something for some elven class, too), but the idea does look neat in principle.

Two examples.

Elven Wizard
Level 1 - Generalist Wizardry: The character starts out with one more 1st-level spell in his spellbook. He gains one more spell at each level, and can prepare one more spell of the highest level he can cast. This replaces the ability to specialize.
Level 3 - Natural Link: Double the familiar bonus (e.g. +6 hp instead of +3 hp for a toad) as long as it is within arm's reach. Replaces the familiar's ability to deliver touch spells and speak with animals.
Level 5 - Bonus feat: Get a bow-related feat instead of a metamagic/item creation feat.

Dwarven Fighter
General: at any level where the character takes a substitution level, he rolls 1d12 for hp and treats Knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill.
Level 1 - Axe focus: Gain weapon focus with hand axe, battleaxe, greataxe, dwarven waraxe, throwing axe, and the axe part of an urgrosh. Replaces the standard fighter bonus feat.
Level 2 - Racial foes: +2 damage vs. orcs, goblinoids, and giants. Replaces the fighter bonus feat.
Level 8 - Heavy armor expertise: +1 AC when wearing heavy armor. Replaces the fighter bonus feat

In the Races series, each race gets substitution levels for three classes: their favored class, another stereotypical class, and an oddball class. For example, dwarves have substitution levels for fighter (favored), cleric (stereotype), and sorcerer (oddball).

Quote from: DackeTwo examples.

Thanks.    Interesting ideas.  Not interesting enough for me to buy the books, but very interesting.