I played AD&D for years...1e only. Then a few years back 5e.
I am very tired of the culture surrounding 5e but also the lack of real danger.
I also think experience for treasure is something I miss. I've thought about just going back to Gygax/OSRIC, but a part of me thinks basic would be freeing and clean.
It also gets rid of this worry about "spotlight" and "roles." I don't get that. We just protected the magic user to avoid having him killed. When he drops a fireball later we are glad we did.
I thought about a pdf of the rules cyclopedia but wondered if there were other superior ways to get into b/x. I think I have mold at basic and expert manuals but not the other books. Bought them all at Gen con 25 years ago, loaned them out and...yeah. My locate object spell no longer works.
Awesome, I'm glad you're thinking of it. I had fun playing in a by the book B/X campaign. That's worth doing for the experience and to see what emerges, but really the game can be changed. Fighters can stand to be powered up as they level for one thing, and you may well want other changes for your table or to represent your campaign world. B/X is a good base if you're willing to house rule it eventually, but I have a hard time seeing a full 1-9 campaign strictly by the book.
other ways to get into B/X
OSE is a pure clone of B/X. It restates and reorganizes the rules, but doesn't add any innovations of its own in as some retroclones do. It's a useful reference at the table, but it lacks the advice and examples of play that the real games had, so there's a tradeoff if its your only book. It's the hot new thing in the OSR right now, but, by virtue of being the exact same game, has the same limitation as B/X for me that I wouldn't want to stick to RAW forever.
There are other retroclones as well. Labyrinth Lord is a B/X clone that makes just a few changes (clerics get spells at 1st level, a few minor ones I don't recall) that was big for a while.
My own game of choice is ACKS, which is yet another clone of B/X that powers up the fighter slightly, adds a proficiency system (which I consider fully optional if you look at mechanically but isn't called out as optional in the book) plus has some expanded options on domain play, downtime activities, and even a mercantile trading subsystem if you ever happen to need it. If you're thinking of straight B/X this isn't what you're looking for now but may be a useful resource down the line.
Thanks! I was wondering about OSE. If we want to dabble and rest it out, this looks like a good option.
As working people with kids, the amount of prep with newer games is somewhat prohibitive. Not 3e prohibitive, but sitting down rolling up a character quick and getting to it has an appeal.
I always thought D&D was too simple...now I am seeing some appeal to that.
I am going to check out OSE. But that only goes to level14, correct? I don't even know how long it takes to get there in B/X!
Quote from: Dapig on July 11, 2021, 10:51:17 AM
I am going to check out OSE. But that only goes to level14, correct? I don't even know how long it takes to get there in B/X!
Since the DM awards the experience points, it can take as long as you (the DM) wants it to.
I have OSE because everyone swore by it and honestly it does just what it was supposed to. I just don't like it.
Too many 5E games? I dunno but I can't stand race as class. I think the advanced OSE hardbacks are coming soon but I already found my happy place with Basic Fantasy.
It's BX but split apart race from class.
Now they also limit casters to 6th level spells and that doesn't work for me but it was nothing to just copy paste one of the other games spells and spell tables over to Basic Fantasy.
OSE really is getting pushed hard these days and probably for good reason but I just couldn't make that race as class step.
I ordered the hard back copy of the Rules Cyclopedia, and I like it much more than I thought I would.
I actually prefer Mentzer's BE to Moldvay's B/X. dndclassics has the PDFs for $5 for each book (Moldvay has two books, while Menzter has three book—two for Basic, and one for Expert).
You might be able to find the pdf for the last Basic Black Box somewhere, but dndclassics does not offer it—yet.
I like race as class; elves can cast spells while wearing armor, which is cool. Dwarves can discover "large, structural" traps, and halflings can hide in shadows, like the thief. The saving throws for Halflings and Dwarves are also very good, so they can be the ones to open chests and sip unidentified potions.
Was it an original or from drive through rpg or the like?
Quote from: Dapig on July 12, 2021, 12:30:40 PM
Was it an original or from drive through rpg or the like?
It was a Print on Demand copy from dndclassics/Drivethrurpg
Quote from: Dapig on July 11, 2021, 09:35:50 AM
I thought about a pdf of the rules cyclopedia but wondered if there were other superior ways to get into b/x. I think I have mold at basic and expert manuals but not the other books. Bought them all at Gen con 25 years ago, loaned them out and...yeah. My locate object spell no longer works.
Rules Cyclopedia is not BX. Its a sort of consensing of BECMI which is a fair bit different from BX as it stretched levels wuite a bit and eventually steps into the realm of gods.
Quote from: Omega on July 13, 2021, 03:02:58 AM
Quote from: Dapig on July 11, 2021, 09:35:50 AM
I thought about a pdf of the rules cyclopedia but wondered if there were other superior ways to get into b/x. I think I have mold at basic and expert manuals but not the other books. Bought them all at Gen con 25 years ago, loaned them out and...yeah. My locate object spell no longer works.
Rules Cyclopedia is not BX. Its a sort of consensing of BECMI which is a fair bit different from BX as it stretched levels wuite a bit and eventually steps into the realm of gods.
Right you are! I guess we would be open to BECMI if we end up liking basic. Apparently my buddy already prepped a module, so I guess we are doing this....
I hope y'all have fun!
In "Basic D&D" (either B/X or BECMI), creating a dungeon is the DM equivalent to the players creating characters—it involves more work, but the random rolls for monsters and treasure feels similar (to me) to rolling for attributes, hit points, and starting money. And, in the same way that one begins to think about the background of a newly created character, the DM begins to think of the story behind the dungeon during its creation.
I cannot recommend Old School Essentials enough. It is simply fantastic. The Classic Fantasy all in one tome or individual cooks is pure B/X with some additional options you can choose from. The Advanced Fantasy Player's Tome & Referee's Tomes or the individual books add in elements from 1e AD&D, expanding the classes, adding options for race separated from class, Ascending AC, etc.
Here is a list of my house rules and optional rules I use for my online game I starting soon:
HOUSE RULES:
1. Character Generation: Roll 4d6 and drop lowest all the way down and assign scores as you wish
2. Maximum Hit Points at first level
3. Critical Hits & Fumbles: A natural 1 roll results in a Critical Hit in combat and results in max damage being applied to the target. A natural roll of 20 in combat results in a Fumble and the Referee will add a complication to the task at hand.
OPTIONAL RULES:
• Ascending AC (PT: 13, 16, 18, 223)
• Secondary Skills (PT 25)
• Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Specialization (PT 23)
• Re-Rolling 1s and 2s when generating Attributes (PT 17)
• Monster Morale (PT 226)
• Race separated from class (this means humans get the enhancements mentioned in the book when doing this – Racial Abilities (PT: 78, 86)
• Lifting Class and Level Restrictions (PT 78)
• Reload (PT 97)
• Variable Weapon Damage (PT 222)
• Limits on Turning Undead (PT 111)
• Advanced Spell Book Rules (PT 112)
• Encumbrance – Option 1: Basic Encumbrance (PT 203)
• Returning from Death (PT 207) [RARE]
• Variable Wind Conditions (PT 215)
• Attacking with Two Weapons (PT 224)
• Charging into Melee (PT 224)
• Invulnerabilities (PT 224)
• Missile Attacks on Targets in Melee (PT 224)
• Parrying (PT 225)
• Splash Weapons (PT 225)
• Subduing (PT 225)
I think we will use the d6 for each side default initiative to start and if folks decide they want to try it, move to individual initiative rolls if the group decides this is their preference.
The individual books for Classic and Advanced Fantasy are really nice because you can pass them around the table for whoever needs whichever book at a given time. The Referee could have the rules book behind his/her Refereee screen while passing the Illusionist spells over to a player, for example. If you want everything combined you can instead opt for the complete Classic game in the Rules Tome or if you want the Classic game with the Advanced Fantasy options all in on, you can instead pick up the Advanced Player's Tome + the Advanced Fantasy Feferee's Tome. Those latter 2 books have literally everything for the game in them.
It is also very easy to try the game out for free due to Necrotic Gnome having a free Basic Rules PDF that is fully illustrated and 56 pages long that you can download at their website.
The game is super modular and has tons of options to choose from. I adore it. It is my favorite OSR game, hands down.
https://necroticgnome.com/ (https://necroticgnome.com/)
Quote from: Omega on July 13, 2021, 03:02:58 AM
Quote from: Dapig on July 11, 2021, 09:35:50 AM
I thought about a pdf of the rules cyclopedia but wondered if there were other superior ways to get into b/x. I think I have mold at basic and expert manuals but not the other books. Bought them all at Gen con 25 years ago, loaned them out and...yeah. My locate object spell no longer works.
Rules Cyclopedia is not BX. Its a sort of consensing of BECMI which is a fair bit different from BX as it stretched levels wuite a bit and eventually steps into the realm of gods.
Yes, but be warned that the I/Immortals is not in the Cyclopia, it's just BECM. They did have a Wrath of the Immortals product which is free on drivethru that covered some of the same stuff but it is not in the rules Cyclopedia itself.
Quote from: palaeomerus on July 14, 2021, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: Omega on July 13, 2021, 03:02:58 AM
Quote from: Dapig on July 11, 2021, 09:35:50 AM
I thought about a pdf of the rules cyclopedia but wondered if there were other superior ways to get into b/x. I think I have mold at basic and expert manuals but not the other books. Bought them all at Gen con 25 years ago, loaned them out and...yeah. My locate object spell no longer works.
Rules Cyclopedia is not BX. Its a sort of consensing of BECMI which is a fair bit different from BX as it stretched levels wuite a bit and eventually steps into the realm of gods.
Yes, but be warned that the I/Immortals is not in the Cyclopia, it's just BECM. They did have a Wrath of the Immortals product which is free on drivethru that covered some of the same stuff but it is not in the rules Cyclopedia itself.
I seem to recall some of the artifacts and stuff from Masters also got excised? Not enough to make it unplayable, but enough that you'd notice if you compared the two.
But it's been literal decades since I've cracked a copy of each open and compared.
Quote from: palaeomerus on July 14, 2021, 10:57:50 AM
Quote from: Omega on July 13, 2021, 03:02:58 AM
Quote from: Dapig on July 11, 2021, 09:35:50 AM
I thought about a pdf of the rules cyclopedia but wondered if there were other superior ways to get into b/x. I think I have mold at basic and expert manuals but not the other books. Bought them all at Gen con 25 years ago, loaned them out and...yeah. My locate object spell no longer works.
Rules Cyclopedia is not BX. Its a sort of consensing of BECMI which is a fair bit different from BX as it stretched levels wuite a bit and eventually steps into the realm of gods.
Yes, but be warned that the I/Immortals is not in the Cyclopia, it's just BECM. They did have a Wrath of the Immortals product which is free on drivethru that covered some of the same stuff but it is not in the rules Cyclopedia itself.
It's free? It is free! (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/284479/Wrath-of-the-Immortals) When did that happen?
Anyone who is interested in Basic D&D should grab it. That was a big box set for the Rules Cyclopedia, containing an adaptation of the earlier BECMI Immortals rules (as palaeomerus mentioned, it's not the same), and print copies aren't cheap.
I was introduced to rpgs with the moldvay boxed sets, B/X. Recently used it to teach my kids how to play. The system definitely has a small following. I think it is great to teach kids or if you want rules light and more liberty as a DM and more situational player choice. I much prefer race and class instead of race as a class, but it's a great game.
Lots of clones and retroclones too as others have mentioned. Good luck.
Old School Essentials allows you to separate race and class.
Every possible thread, Batjon? How much are you getting paid?
It's just B/X. It's a perfectly frabjous presentation of B/X, but it's just B/X.
I am pretty pumped actually. I have not thought of playing BECMI for many years. Decades. I played basic a couple of times maybe 40 years ago as a small kid! Can't be sure—-might have been isle of dread because I remember being attacked by natives on a ship. But you know, 2nd grade = hazy memory.
We got into AD&D by junior high and held on tight: skipped 2e.
So this really is unknown territory for us. But I am sick of adding lots of bonuses and fiddle shit. I want the risk of death and do for treasure. I am really optimistic. Plus, my own 7 year old (holy shit prophetic) will better be able to grasp it I hope and foster his interest...
I did an experiment yesterday, based on a thread on another forum. Using the cover art of Mentzer's red box for inspiration, I created a fighter (actually, I used the guy in the intro adventure), levelled him to three, gave him gauntlets of ogre power, magic armor, a couple of magic rings, and three magic swords for the player to choose from. Then, I scribbled down the info for a red dragon. The only numbers that I changed were the hit points of both fighter and dragon. Then, I have them fight.
The dragon won every time but once, when the player won initiative and used the normal sword +1/light to cast light at the dragon's eyes. The dragon failed its save, and was blinded. In Basic (but not in the Rules Cyclopedia!) blinded creatures cannot attack. I ruled that that included breath weapons. So, the player rolled multiple times, sometimes hitting, but mostly missing. The spell was the cleric's version, which meant it lasted two hours (12 turns). I finally said that the two hours had passed, and the spell wore off. The dragon won initiative, and immediately blasted the fighter with its fire breath—for one point of damage, since the fighter had knocked the dragon down to one hit point. The dragon was then despatched.
Most of the time, if the fighter made the save versus dragon breath, he survived the first fire blast, but got barbecued on the following round. I rerolled the dragon's hit points after each fight; hp ranges from the low forties to the low fifties. I had the player reroll the fighter's hp (roll a d8 twice and add 4 for the CON modifier and another 8, which was the starting hp in the intro adventure), and it ranged from a low of 18 to a high of 25.
Whoa! Free Wrath of the Immortals!! Nice! Thanks!
Quote from: Batjon on July 15, 2021, 01:57:41 PM
Old School Essentials allows you to separate race and class.
How?
Others have mentioned very solid presentations of B/X. I'll just throw in one more if you are feeling adventurous. Lamentations of the Flame Princess is a great B/X adaptation, particularly if you enjoy a focus on weird horror or favor a setting with primitive muzzle-loading firearms.
For me, the first thing to check for any RPG is the character sheet: gives a pretty good indication on the complexity of the game. One just has to look at the traditional B/X character sheet vs. the Goldenrod standard Advanced D&D, and it becomes pretty evident that B/X wins out for far less fiddly bits.
Your son will definitely grasp it better at that age. Heck, Advanced D&D rules still confound most of us as adults. Last thing you want to do is introduce those frustrating rules and turn him off the RPG concept, even though we seem to revel in rule talk later on in life. heh
I have an 8 year old son who I'm slowly introducing to RPG's: B/X has proven (as it was intended) to be grasped relatively easily by younger players and he's enjoying it. I'll let him decide when to break from the traditional and find his own way.
It's definitely a solid foundation for a game system that is not going anywhere anytime soon.
Quote from: palaeomerus on July 14, 2021, 10:57:50 AM
Yes, but be warned that the I/Immortals is not in the Cyclopia, it's just BECM. They did have a Wrath of the Immortals product which is free on drivethru that covered some of the same stuff but it is not in the rules Cyclopedia itself.
[/quote]
Alot of folk seem to consider the omission of Immortals from Cyclopedia a boon.
Personally I thought Immortals was ok. Totally weird. But ok. It got the job done and did it in an interesting way. Little more convoluted than I'd have done. But overall that was a problem of BECMI throughout. The War Machine rules being the exception.
Quote from: Omega on July 18, 2021, 07:30:18 AM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on July 17, 2021, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: Batjon on July 15, 2021, 01:57:41 PM
Old School Essentials allows you to separate race and class.
How?
More the point... why?
It's an optional set of rules in the Advanced Fantasy books if you want to play it closer to AD&D. Otherwise it's B/X versions of AD&D races and classes, i.e. you have a Paladin class or Ranger class that are humans, and you also have the Half-Elf class, or Gnome, or Half-Orc, etc.
There are Basic Paladins. A 9th level fighter that is Law aligned can opt to become a paladin instead of buying a castle and becoming a lord. If the fighter has a WIS of 13 or above, then the paladin can cast cleric spells. There is no minimum CHA requirement.
I started on B/X BITD and still have fond memories of it... particularly Castle Amber.
I looked at Mentzer's BECMI, realized it was Mentzer, then put it down and washed my hands.
The RC? I bought it on a whim, but honestly the artwork looked like shit from Charlton Comics.
Quote from: Semaj Khan on July 18, 2021, 10:16:11 PM
I looked at Mentzer's BECMI, realized it was Mentzer, then put it down and washed my hands.
Greetings!
Hmmm...what is so wrong or terrible about Mentzer's BECMI?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on July 18, 2021, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: Semaj Khan on July 18, 2021, 10:16:11 PM
I looked at Mentzer's BECMI, realized it was Mentzer, then put it down and washed my hands.
Greetings!
Hmmm...what is so wrong or terrible about Mentzer's BECMI?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings!
Because Mentzer is a shit-for-brains writer and DM, and his products are substandard tripe.
Anchors Aweigh,
Semaj Khan
Quote from: Semaj Khan on July 18, 2021, 11:26:39 PM
Quote from: SHARK on July 18, 2021, 11:12:40 PM
Quote from: Semaj Khan on July 18, 2021, 10:16:11 PM
I looked at Mentzer's BECMI, realized it was Mentzer, then put it down and washed my hands.
Greetings!
Hmmm...what is so wrong or terrible about Mentzer's BECMI?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Greetings!
Because Mentzer is a shit-for-brains writer and DM, and his products are substandard tripe.
Anchors Aweigh,
Semaj Khan
Greetings!
*Laughing* I love it. That response made me almost choke on my coffee from laughing. ;D
I know it is often fashionable for many gamers--especially in the OSR--to wax eloquently in praise of everyone from "The Old Days", but I have seen some various modules and books written by *Old TSR Gaming Luminary* and thought to myself, "Really? What the eff is this guy worshipped so much for? This module is garbage!" ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 17, 2021, 09:19:59 PM
For me, the first thing to check for any RPG is the character sheet: gives a pretty good indication on the complexity of the game. One just has to look at the traditional B/X character sheet vs. the Goldenrod standard Advanced D&D, and it becomes pretty evident that B/X wins out for far less fiddly bits.
Your son will definitely grasp it better at that age. Heck, Advanced D&D rules still confound most of us as adults. Last thing you want to do is introduce those frustrating rules and turn him off the RPG concept, even though we seem to revel in rule talk later on in life. heh
I have an 8 year old son who I'm slowly introducing to RPG's: B/X has proven (as it was intended) to be grasped relatively easily by younger players and he's enjoying it. I'll let him decide when to break from the traditional and find his own way.
It's definitely a solid foundation for a game system that is not going anywhere anytime soon.
I honestly don't think AD&D was that tough to learn. I stared with Holmes basic at age 10, and at age 12 started DMing AD&D for groups of 4 to 12 people without any help from an adult. If I did it, I feel like just about anyone could do it.
Quote from: Mishihari on July 25, 2021, 02:28:24 AM
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 17, 2021, 09:19:59 PM
For me, the first thing to check for any RPG is the character sheet: gives a pretty good indication on the complexity of the game. One just has to look at the traditional B/X character sheet vs. the Goldenrod standard Advanced D&D, and it becomes pretty evident that B/X wins out for far less fiddly bits.
Your son will definitely grasp it better at that age. Heck, Advanced D&D rules still confound most of us as adults. Last thing you want to do is introduce those frustrating rules and turn him off the RPG concept, even though we seem to revel in rule talk later on in life. heh
I have an 8 year old son who I'm slowly introducing to RPG's: B/X has proven (as it was intended) to be grasped relatively easily by younger players and he's enjoying it. I'll let him decide when to break from the traditional and find his own way.
It's definitely a solid foundation for a game system that is not going anywhere anytime soon.
I honestly don't think AD&D was that tough to learn. I stared with Holmes basic at age 10, and at age 12 started DMing AD&D for groups of 4 to 12 people without any help from an adult. If I did it, I feel like just about anyone could do it.
Confidence and comfort are the key. If you have those, system is irrelevant. Without those, and any system is too much.
Quote from: Habitual Gamer on July 26, 2021, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on July 25, 2021, 02:28:24 AM
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on July 17, 2021, 09:19:59 PM
For me, the first thing to check for any RPG is the character sheet: gives a pretty good indication on the complexity of the game. One just has to look at the traditional B/X character sheet vs. the Goldenrod standard Advanced D&D, and it becomes pretty evident that B/X wins out for far less fiddly bits.
Your son will definitely grasp it better at that age. Heck, Advanced D&D rules still confound most of us as adults. Last thing you want to do is introduce those frustrating rules and turn him off the RPG concept, even though we seem to revel in rule talk later on in life. heh
I have an 8 year old son who I'm slowly introducing to RPG's: B/X has proven (as it was intended) to be grasped relatively easily by younger players and he's enjoying it. I'll let him decide when to break from the traditional and find his own way.
It's definitely a solid foundation for a game system that is not going anywhere anytime soon.
I honestly don't think AD&D was that tough to learn. I stared with Holmes basic at age 10, and at age 12 started DMing AD&D for groups of 4 to 12 people without any help from an adult. If I did it, I feel like just about anyone could do it.
Confidence and comfort are the key. If you have those, system is irrelevant. Without those, and any system is too much.
Gentle readers, I would agree if I dumped half the rules in the book and did the (B/X)/AD&D squish that most of us did back when we were young. I suspected the AD&D BTB rules are some sort of Mensa test. My friend and I made a concerted effort back then to play AD&D 1e BTB and it ended in more confusion than anything else and abject failure.
It's not rocket science, and sure you can play AD&D and make it work well enough, but the system needed major modifications to actually make sense and work. Rules have been debated for years on other forums with no resolution. It is not a clear, concise system to learn. Still my favorite edition, because I'm evidently a masochist.
Quote from: Dave 2 on July 15, 2021, 09:20:06 PM
Every possible thread, Batjon? How much are you getting paid?
It's just B/X. It's a perfectly frabjous presentation of B/X, but it's just B/X.
LOL. That is actually not true. If you have the advanced tomes or advanced individual books, they add classes from AD&D, options from AD&D, options for Ascending AC, Weapon Proficiencies, more monsters, spells, etc.