So, I got my Dark Albion book yesterday, the print proof; and while the cover will be a little different than the one in this version, the interior (barring any typos) will be identical.
So, head over to my blog (http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2015/06/first-look-at-dark-albion-rose-war-book.html)and check out the first look at the actual book!
RPGPundit
You're killing me here man, here I am trying to curtail my rpg spending and you go off and release this.
As I said on Pundy's blog, I'd likely not get one second of use out of it but I'm damned tempted to get it anyway. I love the concept, and it looks awesome.
Got a price-point yet?
Looks nice, from what little the preview tells.
I'm impressed with the artwork. Many books, self-published or small press, that use period art manage to mess it up by choosing inconsistent pieces and poorly cropping or shopping them. These pieces are really beautifully rendered, huge fan of the wood-block look.
Nice looking stuff, Pundit.
That's a good looking book
Layout and art looks pretty good! I'm starting to get interested in the content too.
Definitely getting a WFRP vibe from the preview, which, of course, is a great thing.
Are you going to have a hardback/pdf bundle?
Quote from: CRKrueger;838123Are you going to have a hardback/pdf bundle?
Ah, sorry, but no.
Price of printed book, and price of PDF will be kept extremely reasonable (at least in my opinion; not set yet, but no more than FH&W for POD, and probably 10$ for PDF).
Printed book will be on Lulu for hardback, and Amazon for softcover. Then RPGnow/Drivethru for the PDF. However, the PDF will come with bookmarks (for all the table-of-contents and index entries), plus files to print maps in larger size (if you can get an appropriate printer) and maps not featured in the book (i.e. maps for players, that lost their hexes and got a parchment rendition). Add to this an introductory 1st level adventure of 20 pages, published separately, that will be "pay-what-you-want" (so you can get it for free).
I think it's still an honest dealing. First of all, POD on RPGnow means they get money from the book, when all the royalties get into our pockets (RPGPundit and me) when sold from Amazon/Lulu. So why do that? Keep in mind that doing books like this, takes enormous time (it took one year in my spare time doing the Dark Albion layout, maps, etc.). All the money it will bring us, you can see it as a kind of sponsoring (or like a kickstarter) of future products! For example, I have already material for a future 32-40 pages adventure in Dark Albion (with an additional regional map, castle floorlans, etc.), and also a supplement for Averoigne in Frogland! (Though it will be called Auverogne because of copyright issues.) But there must be incentive to do it too. Although Dark Albion (as well as FH&W) was a labor of love, this love doesn't put food in your plate.
By the same token, I don't do discounts (reduced prices) at a later date. For one reason (among others), I think it is kind of an insult toward those who paid it full price in the first place...
The system used is D&D?
Quote from: Scutter;838141The system used is D&D?
Most of the book (approximately 220 pages out of 275) is about describing the setting, without game rules. That is: the gazetteer, history, law-and-justice chapters, etc., make no mention of rules, except for the
rare line such as "when standing under a dolmen magic-users cast their spells at +1 caster level".
Then, the pages that describe rules (i.e., character classes in Albion, chapter on magic, etc.) are intended for (and compatible with) most OSR games. That means that they are relevant to any pre-3e D&D game, and all their iterations (S&W, Osric, FH&W, LL, DCC, LotFP, etc.).
Then, the 30 pages of appendices, feature rule information for playing with specific games, such as FH&W. But the info here could easily be ported to other D&D based games.
I think you might also use 5e to run a Dark Albion campaign, but you would have first to carefully think about spellcasters who have unlimited (low-level) spells per day, before beginning it. Just considering how that would fit and affect your campaign, since Dark Albion is supposed to be "low magic".
Thanks Turanil
Thanks for the rundown, Turanil. That pretty much sold me on getting this. Fantastic work!
Heh, I can't un-see Tom Servo on the cover.
Quote from: JeremyR;838160Heh, I can't un-see Tom Servo on the cover.
The final cover is much different. And there is two covers available when you buy a hardcover book on lulu: one with a 100% medieval manuscript flavor, and another with this painting (the choose-your-rose one) but different logo and bordering.
Very nice interior. Cat approves too! ha I was pretty confidant from looking at Turanil's game that the interior layout would have the feel of the game.
Check the grey backgrounds in those text boxes to make sure they aren't too dark in the print edition. Just noticed that from the photos. Couldn't really tell for sure from the small photos, though.
Quote from: Turanil;838140I think it's still an honest dealing. First of all, POD on RPGnow means they get money from the book, when all the royalties get into our pockets (RPGPundit and me) when sold from Amazon/Lulu. So why do that?
Because the OBS sites move a huge number of copies compared to Lulu/Amazon for fringe indie publishers like us. Even for a mature market publisher like Evil Hat, with physical distribution channel access, the OBS sales are comparable to what they move through Amazon. For indie publishers without an independent marketing reach, the unified storefront that OBS provides and the eyeballs you can get from their hottest and newest-sell ribbons are invaluable.
OBS POD is also much cheaper than Lulu. A 275 page b/w hardback book costs $18.90 to print with Lulu, whereas OBS offers it for $11.80, with bulk discounts at 50+ copies. Even if you're just printing a batch of hardcovers for FBA, you can get 50 copies for about $10 apiece at $500 against Lulu doing 50 for $945.
OBS also has excellent marketing tools. The Dark Albion freebies you offer all put their downloaders onto your company's mailing list as long as they haven't opted out of it, allowing you to use it as a base for tapping past buyers when you get new content out. If Amazon or Lulu offer these options, I haven't seen them.
OBS makes royalties much easier. You can set automatic royalty splits on individual products so that the payout automatically is delivered to both of you in the proportions agreed.
For pricing, I would
strongly encourage a much higher price point than FH&W on Amazon. If you're selling a hardback for less than $39.99 you're leaving money on the table, especially when it's a comparatively large, 275-page game. If you're pricing for reach with the PDF, that should be $9.99, though it could easily hit $14.99, and if you're optimizing for return over the long run and are going to keep supporting the line, $19.99 is possible. (Side note: why no POD for FH&W on OBS? People love to buy paper+PDF bundles; a quarter of my sales are paper, and other publishers have even higher ratios.) RPGs are luxury goods, and competing on price in a luxury good market is Not Fruitful.
I extend this advice because it wounds me to see any publisher not making as much money as possible from their hard work. OBS is simply where small publishers sell these days. Amazon and Lulu cannot begin to compete with it for a concentrated market of people who want to buy what you sell.
Quote from: SineNomine;838176Because the OBS sites move a huge number of copies compared to Lulu/Amazon for fringe indie publishers like us. Even for a mature market publisher like Evil Hat, with physical distribution channel access, the OBS sales are comparable to what they move through Amazon. For indie publishers without an independent marketing reach, the unified storefront that OBS provides and the eyeballs you can get from their hottest and newest-sell ribbons are invaluable.
OBS POD is also much cheaper than Lulu. A 275 page b/w hardback book costs $18.90 to print with Lulu, whereas OBS offers it for $11.80, with bulk discounts at 50+ copies. Even if you're just printing a batch of hardcovers for FBA, you can get 50 copies for about $10 apiece at $500 against Lulu doing 50 for $945.
OBS also has excellent marketing tools. The Dark Albion freebies you offer all put their downloaders onto your company's mailing list as long as they haven't opted out of it, allowing you to use it as a base for tapping past buyers when you get new content out. If Amazon or Lulu offer these options, I haven't seen them.
...
I extend this advice because it wounds me to see any publisher not making as much money as possible from their hard work. OBS is simply where small publishers sell these days. Amazon and Lulu cannot begin to compete with it for a concentrated market of people who want to buy what you sell.
Like SineNomine said. OBS isn't perfect, but it has your target audience, and can provide views and sales and opportunities that you won't get from Lulu or Amazon. So, yes, you'll lose some $ in royalties, but think of it as getting 65 to 70 cents on the dollar from an OBS sale, versus NO cents on the dollar from lost sales due to a limited audience on Lulu and Amazon.
I've been very happy with how I've been able to sell and manage my own books there.
Quote from: RPGPundit;838071So, I got my Dark Albion book yesterday, the print proof; and while the cover will be a little different than the one in this version, the interior (barring any typos) will be identical.
I can't speak to the text yet, but the page designs look great!
Quote from: SineNomine;838176I extend this advice <...>
Thanks very much. I will re-read your post again, then look at RPGnow POD. If their POD are cheaper than Lulu, it might be a worthy option to propose. I will look into this carefully.
By the way, can you tell me about the quality of their printed books, both hardcover and softcover?
Quote from: Kuroth;838175Check the gray backgrounds in those text boxes to make sure they aren't too dark in the print edition.
This is the same level of shading as in the FH&W books, where it doesn't hinder anything.
Quote from: Scutter;838141The system used is D&D?
It's a setting book for OSR play, but doesn't have a base system in the book (it does have my "Appendix P" house-rule mods for OSR play, and a conversion chapter for running it with FH&W).
So the book itself is largely system-neutral but aimed at the OSR.
Quote from: Kuroth;838175Very nice interior. Cat approves too! ha I was pretty confidant from looking at Turanil's game that the interior layout would have the feel of the game.
Check the grey backgrounds in those text boxes to make sure they aren't too dark in the print edition. Just noticed that from the photos. Couldn't really tell for sure from the small photos, though.
The grey backgrounds look fine from what I've reviewed so far. Good tip though.
Quote from: Turanil;838202By the way, can you tell me about the quality of their printed books, both hardcover and softcover?
It's very good, with tight bindings and crisp blacks. The one caveat is large areas of shading on the page- some books can end up with slight unevenness in large shaded areas due to ink issues.
Quote from: SineNomine;838176Because the OBS sites move a huge number of copies compared to Lulu/Amazon for fringe indie publishers like us. Even for a mature market publisher like Evil Hat, with physical distribution channel access, the OBS sales are comparable to what they move through Amazon. For indie publishers without an independent marketing reach, the unified storefront that OBS provides and the eyeballs you can get from their hottest and newest-sell ribbons are invaluable.
OBS POD is also much cheaper than Lulu. A 275 page b/w hardback book costs $18.90 to print with Lulu, whereas OBS offers it for $11.80, with bulk discounts at 50+ copies. Even if you're just printing a batch of hardcovers for FBA, you can get 50 copies for about $10 apiece at $500 against Lulu doing 50 for $945.
OBS also has excellent marketing tools. The Dark Albion freebies you offer all put their downloaders onto your company's mailing list as long as they haven't opted out of it, allowing you to use it as a base for tapping past buyers when you get new content out. If Amazon or Lulu offer these options, I haven't seen them.
OBS makes royalties much easier. You can set automatic royalty splits on individual products so that the payout automatically is delivered to both of you in the proportions agreed.
For pricing, I would strongly encourage a much higher price point than FH&W on Amazon. If you're selling a hardback for less than $39.99 you're leaving money on the table, especially when it's a comparatively large, 275-page game. If you're pricing for reach with the PDF, that should be $9.99, though it could easily hit $14.99, and if you're optimizing for return over the long run and are going to keep supporting the line, $19.99 is possible. (Side note: why no POD for FH&W on OBS? People love to buy paper+PDF bundles; a quarter of my sales are paper, and other publishers have even higher ratios.) RPGs are luxury goods, and competing on price in a luxury good market is Not Fruitful.
I extend this advice because it wounds me to see any publisher not making as much money as possible from their hard work. OBS is simply where small publishers sell these days. Amazon and Lulu cannot begin to compete with it for a concentrated market of people who want to buy what you sell.
This sounds like very helpful advice worthy of consideration.
Of course, I'm not a publisher, and stuff like this is why I would never ever want to be. I hate that in the gaming scene these days the assumption is that everyone should just be publishing their own stuff; not everyone who's a good game designer is also a good publisher, those skill-sets aren't even remotely related. And of course there are probably people out there who are shitty game-writers/designers but who could potentially make for great small-press publishers if it wasn't that everyone's trying to do it themselves.
Ultimately, Turanil decides on these things. Of course, I do think he should pay a lot of attention and consideration to a guy who is one of the most successful publishers the OSR has.
Quote from: Turanil;838202Thanks very much. I will re-read your post again, then look at RPGnow POD. If their POD are cheaper than Lulu, it might be a worthy option to propose. I will look into this carefully.
By the way, can you tell me about the quality of their printed books, both hardcover and softcover?
This is the same level of shading as in the FH&W books, where it doesn't hinder anything.
RPGNow and Lulu use the same printer.
Quote from: danbuter;838217RPGNow and Lulu use the same printer.
Really? I have had so many bad experiences with Lulu books being poorly bound. Never had that problem with RPGnow books.
Okay, POD books will be also available on RPGNow. However, prices will be reasonable (at least in my opinion), so do not expect discounts later, or for bundles.
Quote from: Turanil;838260Okay, POD books will be also available on RPGNow. However, prices will be reasonable (at least in my opinion), so do not expect discounts later, or for bundles.
I would greatly encourage you to fold the PDF into any paper purchase. It costs you absolutely nothing and a lot of customers get irked if it looks like theya have to pay extra for a PDF. I know it can feel aggravating to have people so loudly disinterested in paying extra for a PDF as well as paper, but there's a joke that's useful to remember at such times.
A salesman is closing a deal with an important client. As it's raining outside when the client is about to leave, the salesman hands over his umbrella with a smile. The client departs, and the salesman drives back to the office and puts in an expense report that includes his umbrella. The company accountant denies it, saying it wasn't a necessary business expense. The salesman argues for an hour over it, but the accountant won't budge.
The next week, the salesman goes out on another trip. When he gets back, he hands over an expense report, leans in, and says "
Now find the goddamn umbrella."
TL;DR
Instead of charging $30 for a book and $10 for a PDF, charge $40 for a bundle and only sell the bundle.
This is all being discussed at the moment, I appreciate the advice. Obviously, all final decisions are the publisher's.
I'm constantly tinkering with a low magic system I've made, and I'm seriously thinking of unleashing it on Dark Albion.
The setting is looks brilliant, and is my favourite style of gaming (dark, gritty, grim etc). Could be interesting
If OBS printed locally like Lulu does, I'd buy from OBS. Living in Canada, shipping and possible extra fees for customs (at least 12%) sucks balls.
Quote from: Necrozius;838344If OBS printed locally like Lulu does, I'd buy from OBS. Living in Canada, shipping and possible extra fees for customs (at least 12%) sucks balls.
The book will be shortly thereafter also available on Amazon (the softcover only however, as they don't do hardcover POD). Maybe that will make things easier for you were taxes and shipping costs are concerned?
Quote from: Necrozius;838344If OBS printed locally like Lulu does, I'd buy from OBS. Living in Canada, shipping and possible extra fees for customs (at least 12%) sucks balls.
OBS shipments to Canada get printed in England, so they get treated as intra-Commonwealth packages. It's substantially cheaper than getting a book shipped from America.
Quote from: RPGPundit;838211So the book itself is largely system-neutral but aimed at the OSR.
Didn't you run your campaign with this using LotFP?
It's very pretty. Not sure of how much use it would be to me, but if I've got some disposable income I'll be keeping it in mind. Still don't really see any parallels to Warhammer, but I'm down for any well done historically-inspired game.
Quote from: Scutter;838332I'm constantly tinkering with a low magic system I've made, and I'm seriously thinking of unleashing it on Dark Albion.
The setting is looks brilliant, and is my favourite style of gaming (dark, gritty, grim etc). Could be interesting
The book has guidelines for how to keep your D&D magic level relatively low; but what were you thinking of for your thing?
Not sure what your question is asking, so I'll go ahead and presume you are asking about my system.
It operates on a 2d10 + attribute + skill (divided by 2) get equal to or greater than a 12 with possible dice roll modifiers dependent on the difficulty of the task being attempted. It has grades of success and failure (like that found in FU rpg ((Free Universal)). So from best to worst results you have Success: 'yes and...', 'yes', 'yes but...', and Failure: 'no but...', 'no', and finally 'no and...'. FU rpg: found here (http://perilplanet.com/fu-rpg/). This is newly implemented and we are play testing it to see if the numbers work ok.
It has 8 attributes (strength, stamina, agility*, dexterity*, intellect, perception, willpower, and charisma.
* Agility/Dexterity: I split these into two because I dislike it when games have just the one stat for movement (i.e. 'Agility' or 'Dexterity'). With the one stat it means your 'gymnast' is also a brilliant watchmaker because she has high 'Agility', or you Gnome watchmaker with her high Dexterity who is brilliant on the gymnastic parallel bars :D. Doesn't make sense and having feats/traits/special abilities that link with your 'Agility' or 'Dexterity' attribute, doesn't really solve the issue. No reason why a brilliant gymnast character with a high 'Agility' should also be naturally brilliant at picking locks too.
It has 8 broad skills which I believe cover 99.99% of all actions you might wish to partake of during a game (melee, ranged, thrown, covert, survival, social, lore, craft). You can specialise within those 8 broad skills too.
For example Melee: 2 handed blade, 1 handed blunt, parry, Ranged: Bow, Crossbow, Thrown: Dagger, Spear, Covert: Sneak, Shadow, Hide Survival: Track, Forage Social: Persuade, Intimidate. You can also specialise (in fact, you must) in Lore and Craft , but they're a bit more involved due to all the academic subjects out there. Specialisation lets you roll 3d10 but you discard the lowest d10 result and keep the other two.
It's also got hit locations - because I love hit locations :D (head, torso, left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg). Each location has its own number of health points based off your character's Strength + Stamina cross referenced on a chart. In that respect it's very similar to Runequest hit locations. I've also got rules for wound infection as well.
Then I've made a list of Proficiencies which are similar to feats (but nowhere near as flashy).
Magic is not my own creation (for the most part). I wanted something low in feel, but powerful (if that makes sense). So I copied the magical effects from the 'Chronicles of the Drenai' rpg by Dariel Quiogue (found here: http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/chronicles-of-the-drenai), added a few, changed others, and overall meshed them with my game. Although I basically lifted them from Chronicles of the Drenai, they are used solely for our rpg table and not for money making purposes.
EDIT: I should clarify that in my earlier post I said I've made a magic system. That's not strictly true; I've take an existing magic system and changed it to fit my low magic setting/rules (as detailed in the above paragraph).
Oh, and I also took the Pendragon personality traits rules and implemented them, because I think they are a great way to aid a player in 'role playing' their character, without being too heavy handed.
There are also no classes or levels and I've got the vaguest of rules in place for demi-human races (not that we're using them in our game).
We've had one play test session and the rules are being continually tweaked changed dropped and morphed, but they are very serviceable and that's what counts.
If you weren't asking me about my game system when you asked what I was thinking of for my 'thing', then I apologise for answering incorrectly. It was nice to talk about my homebrew though, so thanks for the opportunity regardless.
EDIT 2: That said, I'll probably end up using GURPS, Runequest 6 or Harnmaster 3ed with Dark Albion.
Quote from: TristramEvans;838380It's very pretty. Not sure of how much use it would be to me, but if I've got some disposable income I'll be keeping it in mind. Still don't really see any parallels to Warhammer, but I'm down for any well done historically-inspired game.
It's only like WH in the sense that it makes use of real-world nations and adds a touch of fantasy. But its way way less fantasy than WH does, and it's also more serious than warhammer.
Quote from: Lynn;838364Didn't you run your campaign with this using LotFP?
Do run. The campaign is still going. But the book itself is not an LotFP book in any way, it has specifically been made to be able to be run with just about any OSR ruleset (or indeed, could fairly easily be used with other fantasy rule-sets too, since a significant part of the book is mechanics-free).