Quote from: jeff37923 on April 03, 2023, 05:53:33 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 12:15:06 PM
I am sure this will work for some people.   I prefer to play in person.

https://youtu.be/S8NoG-w1RbI

That's not D&D. That is WoW.

Extra Hard Pass on that bullshit.

Greetings!

Yeah, you KNOW that's right, Jeff!

I can remember hanging out with some friends, we would have drinks, be smoking cigars, while playing WoW on our laptops around a big table. Fun times, but that isn't D&D.

Just like the BS presented in the video isn't D&D. Fuck that!

On a technical or thematic note, there is so much wrong with everything going on here. Everyone's attention is not on the DM, or even each other. Everyone is glued to their fucking laptop screens! AARRGGHHH! No real miniatures, no actual dice rolling, no paper character sheets, no actual note taking!

No DM making weird growling noises, no players screaming. WTF, you know?

This whole BS set up there seems so *clinical*, artificial, and sterile. Like people jerking themselves at a meeting room while at work.

Definitely a hard pass. Fuck them and their stupid game. It certainly isn't D&D!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 03, 2023, 05:53:33 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 12:15:06 PM
I am sure this will work for some people.   I prefer to play in person.

https://youtu.be/S8NoG-w1RbI

That's not D&D. That is WoW.

Extra Hard Pass on that bullshit.

If it's WoW it's a shittier version of it, just like it being a shittier version of TTRPGs.

But like I said, they will probably make bank, lots of videogames prove that an idiot and their money will soon part ways. It will be filled with microtransactions up the wazoo plus your monthly fee (as a player or GM) to be able to what? Play online?

VTTs work better for that.

Play in person? I don't need a VTT for that.

But the animations! Yeah, for much less than the cost of this shit I can buy TTS and play with my friends, And there's no monthly fee or microtransactions.

Hilariously WotC seems to be a year late to the party even in the superficial 3D spectacle arena.

I agree with almost everything said, but what I am therefore curious about is what Hasbro/WOTC is thinking. Are they envisioning the current boom in D&D as their chance to create a 2020's World of Warcraft titan, with a huge subscription base, etc., and the fact it is a "new edition" of the venerable tabletop game is just incidental? Or, do they truly believe that an online video game is the future of tabletop roleplaying and they are merely trying to capture this inevitable shift from pen-and-paper to computer? (ie, that in five years, almost no one will be playing with books and dice.)

I would just love to know what they really believe they are doing here.

I do think ttrpgs aren't taking advantage of how tablets make reading much faster. For example, Chaosium still redundantly repeats their rules with minor variations for each campaign setting. When they could save space by releasing rules and campaign settings separately.

But I feel VTT just exacerbates the existing problems with limiting groups' creativity. Your brain and a digital notepad is all the VTT you need. Unless you're playing Neverwinter Nights 3 and making modules for it, then there's no point. VTT is just an inferior tabletop experience. You can already play with others via chat and shared digital notepads.

There's nothing remotely WoW about any of that, outside of there being 3D models involved.  And generally speaking people don't all come to Timmy's house to play on a VTT on a laptop, it's for remote play.  In my case I'm in games with a bunch of people in different countries, so it's flatly impossible to play in person and we use software to handle the gaming.  While it is possible to all run to one person's house to all then log onto the Internet and load up their online game, I wouldn't expect that to actually occur for real people.  They just did it that way for their demo so they could catch all the excitement those not-paid people were so genuinely having at the riveting gameplay.

Would I pay WotC for this to play in person on laptops?  Fuck no.  Even if I wanted to play D&D 6 in the first place, if I was playing locally with people I'd just play with normal minis on a table.  Would I pay them to play remotely with people?  Well, again, I have no desire to play new D&D, but if I did it would hinge on the cost and availability of assets.  There's no point to having a 3D tabletop with minis and stuff if they don't have minis for half the monsters you're trying to use, or maps made for the scenes you want to play on, or if they want you to shell out $50 for the Extreme Beholders Asset Pack or $30/month for some subscription.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 03, 2023, 07:35:32 PM
I do think ttrpgs aren't taking advantage of how tablets make reading much faster. For example, Chaosium still redundantly repeats their rules with minor variations for each campaign setting. When they could save space by releasing rules and campaign settings separately.

But I feel VTT just exacerbates the existing problems with limiting groups' creativity. Your brain and a digital notepad is all the VTT you need. Unless you're playing Neverwinter Nights 3 and making modules for it, then there's no point. VTT is just an inferior tabletop experience. You can already play with others via chat and shared digital notepads.

VTT isn't an inferior tabletop experience, it's a different way of playing, could we play online using ONLY theater of the mind? YES, but not all people like that style, if you can't play in person (my group is in 3 different countries) then playing online is the way, if you like playing with miniatures then a VTT is the way.

In my group we do both, sometimes it's theater of the mind others it's maps and tokens, it all depends on the GM and WHAT we're doing, personally for combat I much rather use maps and minis/tokens, but for everything else I'm fine with theater of the mind. Then there's those times we went left instead of right and the GM rolled a random encounter, then he uses the VTT drawing capabilities like if it was paper and scribbles a map on it.

Now, D&Done isn't for me, because I don't need the animations and because I don't like being the paypig of ANYONE, IF MapTool (free and opensource VTT) was easier to use I would be using that and pushing for my GM to switch to it and save some money, if THEY came out with a 3D version I would still stay in the 2D one.

I mean why use a chat? You could play by snailmail! It's even more analog! or find a happy medium and play by IRCC.

Quote from: Valatar on April 03, 2023, 10:13:55 PM
There's nothing remotely WoW about any of that, outside of there being 3D models involved.  And generally speaking people don't all come to Timmy's house to play on a VTT on a laptop, it's for remote play.  In my case I'm in games with a bunch of people in different countries, so it's flatly impossible to play in person and we use software to handle the gaming.  While it is possible to all run to one person's house to all then log onto the Internet and load up their online game, I wouldn't expect that to actually occur for real people.  They just did it that way for their demo so they could catch all the excitement those not-paid people were so genuinely having at the riveting gameplay.

Would I pay WotC for this to play in person on laptops?  Fuck no.  Even if I wanted to play D&D 6 in the first place, if I was playing locally with people I'd just play with normal minis on a table.  Would I pay them to play remotely with people?  Well, again, I have no desire to play new D&D, but if I did it would hinge on the cost and availability of assets.  There's no point to having a 3D tabletop with minis and stuff if they don't have minis for half the monsters you're trying to use, or maps made for the scenes you want to play on, or if they want you to shell out $50 for the Extreme Beholders Asset Pack or $30/month for some subscription.

IF it was a one time payment (even if the players had to pay too) and you could use it to play other games... Then I might think about it, but I don't need the animations, furthermore It's running on their servers, wanna bet it will lag like nobody's business when it launches (if it has demand)?

On the other hand, if it's not a huge hit it will be closed, because running those servers costs money, so all the money you paid is now lost.

Or they could (and will) start policing your activity outside of their platform and ban you for being a notzee, no refunds, sorry.

Add to that the microtransactions (because the brand is undermonetized after all), yeah, no thanks, that'll be a hard pass from me.

I have minis, paper, dice and rulebooks. I don't need any of this shit.

Even if I wanted to play online, I'd just use Roll20.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 03, 2023, 11:55:04 PM
I have minis, paper, dice and rulebooks. I don't need any of this shit.

Even if I wanted to play online, I'd just use Roll20.

This guy gets it.

For a video that is supposed to be a demonstration of what's coming, it spends an awful lot of time focusing on the faces of the players.

My Sword & Caravan campaign is an online campaign. We don't need a virtual tabletop. We just meet up on video, everyone rolls their own dice because we're grownups. That's it.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2023, 11:29:48 PM
VTT isn't an inferior tabletop experience, it's a different way of playing, could we play online using ONLY theater of the mind? YES, but not all people like that style, if you can't play in person (my group is in 3 different countries) then playing online is the way, if you like playing with miniatures then a VTT is the way.

The group I VTT with is spread from Boston to China and spots in between. One them also sits at a particular place on the spectrum where theatre of the mind visualization is almost impossible for them and they need visual representations (they don't have to be good... but they need to be present) to even be able to function in any sort of combat encounter.

It's one of the better groups I've played with over the decades and it wouldn't even be possible if not for Discord (for voice chat) + Foundry (for visuals).

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 03, 2023, 05:53:33 PM

That's not D&D. That is WoW.

Extra Hard Pass on that bullshit.

SO True.  If I wanted to play WOW I would play WOW.

I don't.  I play RPGS.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 03, 2023, 07:08:47 PM
Hilariously WotC seems to be a year late to the party even in the superficial 3D spectacle arena.

Granted I dont want to play online but if I did, I would go this route.  This is so much better than what WOTC is presenting.