As a forever GM, I like the idea of an AI GM to do pre-made adventures or stuff you prompt it to do. That can be useful. But people are already doing that with Chat GPT and I'm sure other VTT software will have something similar. Everything else about this software seems lesser compared to competitors and most importantly, you get far less whilst paying far more in terms of the MTX.

I really do hope this doesn't get supported. It might not actually as it seems like several influencers are putting their foot down about this.

Quote from: S'mon on April 04, 2023, 12:08:11 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 11:51:45 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 04, 2023, 11:05:46 AM
The 4E tools that got released were the only completed parts of what was supposed to be a fully integrated virtual tabletop. There's a whole mess involving the lead designer killing themselves and, depending on the story you believe, either destroyed all the code and its backups before offing himself or (slightly more likely) it was all vaporware they were unable to deliver on and the suicide gave them a story of woe to tell (instead of rank incompetence).

Anyway, the 4E tools we got were thrown together in about a month and the whole digital side basically collapsed before Essentials even released (the original builder could be hacked to get the Dark Sun material they had in the database but hadn't turned on at the point they killed the offline version and others created work arounds to update it with the later material).

So, yes, this just feels like 4Ev2.0 all over again.

Wow, I knew there was something going on and it failed but I didnt know all of that.

Thanks for the full story.

He didn't mention the lead designer also murdered his estranged wife.

I was never sure if that was real or just added for dramatic effect.

Regardless, calling the 4E digital project a dumpster fire is an insult to metal garbage containers filled with lit combustibles.

Quote from: tenbones on April 04, 2023, 10:13:23 AM


D&D aside... (no this isn't D&D) WotC is entering a realm they *have* no idea how to handle. They're producing a videogame and are pretending it's just an "app" to supplement their TTRPG. At least that's how its being sold. But the reality is this is an entirely different industry which they have no real experience in.

Yes, I strongly suspect the Microsoft executives who are now WotC executives came into WotC hoping to make a Live Service video game. Because that's all they know how to do. But they don't actually understand the needs and wants of the Pen and Paper RPG crowd. They think they can turn DnD into a product. A live service they can sell to people. Without understanding that this is a hobby. One that is very different to any one average video game. You could argue they tried to do that with 4E but that was still with the understand of their VTT being able to run on lower end systems. If this isn't optimized for a variety of PC specs, let alone all the different mobile devices, This One DnD thing will flop harder than 4E.

Quote from: S'mon on April 04, 2023, 12:08:11 PM
He didn't mention the lead designer also murdered his estranged wife.

Geeze it's almost getting to the point where we can say WOTC drives their employees nuts and ruins lives.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2023, 12:35:32 PMHe meant what he said.

I use Foundry myself and I don't get along with Pundit. I just tend to play devil's advocate.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 04, 2023, 01:21:10 PM
As a forever GM, I like the idea of an AI GM to do pre-made adventures or stuff you prompt it to do. That can be useful. But people are already doing that with Chat GPT and I'm sure other VTT software will have something similar. Everything else about this software seems lesser compared to competitors and most importantly, you get far less whilst paying far more in terms of the MTX.

I really do hope this doesn't get supported. It might not actually as it seems like several influencers are putting their foot down about this.

Wow- Wizards of the Coast: Never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 04, 2023, 01:34:45 PM

Quote from: tenbones on April 04, 2023, 10:13:23 AM


D&D aside... (no this isn't D&D) WotC is entering a realm they *have* no idea how to handle. They're producing a videogame and are pretending it's just an "app" to supplement their TTRPG. At least that's how its being sold. But the reality is this is an entirely different industry which they have no real experience in.

Yes, I strongly suspect the Microsoft executives who are now WotC executives came into WotC hoping to make a Live Service video game. Because that's all they know how to do. But they don't actually understand the needs and wants of the Pen and Paper RPG crowd. They think they can turn DnD into a product. A live service they can sell to people. Without understanding that this is a hobby. One that is very different to any one average video game. You could argue they tried to do that with 4E but that was still with the understand of their VTT being able to run on lower end systems. If this isn't optimized for a variety of PC specs, let alone all the different mobile devices, This One DnD thing will flop harder than 4E.

From what I can gather, Chris Cocks seems to think that gamers are just one big community with no subsets. A FPS gamer is the same as a JRPG gamer is the same as a TTRPG gamer is the same as a MtG gamer is the same as an MMORPG gamer. Which is why I think he's so full of shit when he claims to be this big D&D player.

Anybody who actually games knows that there is a big difference between people who play WoW and people who play D&D. While there is likely some crossover, generally when a person is logging into WoW it's because they want to play an MMO, whereas when a person is pulling their D&D books off the shelf it's because they want to roll some real dice and tell a story with friends. I came to TTRPGs and board gaming late, though I've been a video gamer most of my life. Still am, but most of my focus has shifted to the analog gaming sphere, and if I'm sitting down at an actual table in-person with friends to play a game, the last thing I want to do is whip out my laptop or tablet and stare at that all night.

All in all, none of the people running the show at Hasbro/WotC give me gamer vibes. On any level. But every single one of them give me "we hate you, give us your money" vibes.

Quote from: Grognard GM on April 03, 2023, 02:56:08 PM
Pasty white tech nerd for competency, surrounded by box tickers for optics.

Strange - I was expecting a virtual tabletop but it looks like they are still using tokens!

The 4E character builder was an excellent tool that thankfully was kept alive with community hacks so remains functional.  The rest of their VTT aspirations... not so much.  But thanks to more community hacks, it was possible to scrape the online compendium for the 4E data and import it to Fantasy Grounds, which automated a lot of it really well.  I ran a long campaign for it in Fantasy Grounds and was extremely pleased thanks to the data importer.

I'm all on board with good VTTs so everyone's on the same page about what's where in fights, the automation I can take or leave since it needs to be handled well to not burden a game with people having to fiddle their way through a UI to do anything.  Whether this is a good VTT or not is still entirely up in the air on information we don't yet have, but since it's WotC, I'm betting they fuck it up.  Unlike previous generations they may actually manage to release working software (since they just outright bought a company that already made it), but I anticipate arduous DLC costs or subscription fees weighing it down.

Quote from: Wasteland Sniper on April 04, 2023, 02:10:46 PM

All in all, none of the people running the show at Hasbro/WotC give me gamer vibes. On any level. But every single one of them give me "we hate you, give us your money" vibes.

Nope but they do give the corporate "Give me all of your money vibe" that is for sure.

I cant think of any people, Chris Cocks, etc I have less faith in to not screw things up.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 04, 2023, 01:34:45 PM

Quote from: tenbones on April 04, 2023, 10:13:23 AM


D&D aside... (no this isn't D&D) WotC is entering a realm they *have* no idea how to handle. They're producing a videogame and are pretending it's just an "app" to supplement their TTRPG. At least that's how its being sold. But the reality is this is an entirely different industry which they have no real experience in.

Yes, I strongly suspect the Microsoft executives who are now WotC executives came into WotC hoping to make a Live Service video game. Because that's all they know how to do. But they don't actually understand the needs and wants of the Pen and Paper RPG crowd. They think they can turn DnD into a product. A live service they can sell to people. Without understanding that this is a hobby. One that is very different to any one average video game. You could argue they tried to do that with 4E but that was still with the understand of their VTT being able to run on lower end systems. If this isn't optimized for a variety of PC specs, let alone all the different mobile devices, This One DnD thing will flop harder than 4E.

IF what I read about it is correct then it's even worse than that:

It's not a live service, you run it on your own machine, but you have to pay them a monthly fee for the privilege, Foundry or FG (whichever is pay once and forget) is looking better and better, or the other 3d thingy IF it's pay once.

Me? I'm gonna learn how to use MapTool.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 04, 2023, 01:42:36 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2023, 12:35:32 PMHe meant what he said.

I use Foundry myself and I don't get along with Pundit. I just tend to play devil's advocate.

I get along with him just fine, he's still an asshat at times.

I didn't think you shared his opinion, the devil's advocate vibes were strong and clear.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2023, 04:37:56 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 04, 2023, 01:34:45 PM

Quote from: tenbones on April 04, 2023, 10:13:23 AM


D&D aside... (no this isn't D&D) WotC is entering a realm they *have* no idea how to handle. They're producing a videogame and are pretending it's just an "app" to supplement their TTRPG. At least that's how its being sold. But the reality is this is an entirely different industry which they have no real experience in.

Yes, I strongly suspect the Microsoft executives who are now WotC executives came into WotC hoping to make a Live Service video game. Because that's all they know how to do. But they don't actually understand the needs and wants of the Pen and Paper RPG crowd. They think they can turn DnD into a product. A live service they can sell to people. Without understanding that this is a hobby. One that is very different to any one average video game. You could argue they tried to do that with 4E but that was still with the understand of their VTT being able to run on lower end systems. If this isn't optimized for a variety of PC specs, let alone all the different mobile devices, This One DnD thing will flop harder than 4E.

IF what I read about it is correct then it's even worse than that:

It's not a live service, you run it on your own machine, but you have to pay them a monthly fee for the privilege, Foundry or FG (whichever is pay once and forget) is looking better and better, or the other 3d thingy IF it's pay once.

Me? I'm gonna learn how to use MapTool.

The WotC Microsoft executives don't care what the pen-and-paper crowd wants. They're going to market Dungeons and Dragons to the new fanbase they think they've acquired through Stranger Things. A younger demographic who are more hip, more technologically savvy, and more politically progressive, who will access this through their Surface tablets.

Quote from: Corolinth on April 04, 2023, 06:04:45 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2023, 04:37:56 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 04, 2023, 01:34:45 PM

Quote from: tenbones on April 04, 2023, 10:13:23 AM


D&D aside... (no this isn't D&D) WotC is entering a realm they *have* no idea how to handle. They're producing a videogame and are pretending it's just an "app" to supplement their TTRPG. At least that's how its being sold. But the reality is this is an entirely different industry which they have no real experience in.

Yes, I strongly suspect the Microsoft executives who are now WotC executives came into WotC hoping to make a Live Service video game. Because that's all they know how to do. But they don't actually understand the needs and wants of the Pen and Paper RPG crowd. They think they can turn DnD into a product. A live service they can sell to people. Without understanding that this is a hobby. One that is very different to any one average video game. You could argue they tried to do that with 4E but that was still with the understand of their VTT being able to run on lower end systems. If this isn't optimized for a variety of PC specs, let alone all the different mobile devices, This One DnD thing will flop harder than 4E.

IF what I read about it is correct then it's even worse than that:

It's not a live service, you run it on your own machine, but you have to pay them a monthly fee for the privilege, Foundry or FG (whichever is pay once and forget) is looking better and better, or the other 3d thingy IF it's pay once.

Me? I'm gonna learn how to use MapTool.

The WotC Microsoft executives don't care what the pen-and-paper crowd wants. They're going to market Dungeons and Dragons to the new fanbase they think they've acquired through Stranger Things. A younger demographic who are more hip, more technologically savvy, and more politically progressive, who will access this through their Surface tablets.

The sad thing is they might be right and end up making lots of coin. Young consumers are brand followers and don't care about property rights, privacy, etc. They are perfectly fine with the megacorporation preventing you from really owning what you bought from them.

Because convenience, safety, blah, blah, blah.

Yet, 99% of them have never formatted a hard drive, built their own PC, used Linux (it's too complicated man!) or fixed anything ever.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament on April 04, 2023, 08:51:01 AM
I have zero interest in this. Hard pass.

Bingo.

Gameplay looks clunky, confined to digital parameters and lacking all the magic that made the game famous, but without intregrating a branded VTT, WotC can't monetize via subscriptions and microtransactions. Not to mention you know they won't/can't hire good digital designers and programmers, so it'll be buggy as hell. I expect it to fail hard.