I have zero interest in this. Hard pass.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 04, 2023, 04:30:24 AM
My Sword & Caravan campaign is an online campaign. We don't need a virtual tabletop. We just meet up on video, everyone rolls their own dice because we're grownups. That's it.

I'm surprised.  You always seemed like someone resistant to playing online.  What changed?

I wonder if WOTC is going to pull support from the other VTT's out there?

Sure, people can create their own homebrew modules that aren't official but it wouldn't surprise me if WOTC was petty enough to do that to force people to use their shitty VTT

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 03, 2023, 05:53:33 PM

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 03, 2023, 12:15:06 PM
I am sure this will work for some people.   I prefer to play in person.

https://youtu.be/S8NoG-w1RbI

That's not D&D. That is WoW.


Extra Hard Pass on that bullshit.

It's worse than WOW.  It's WOW with terrible lag becuase people can't make up their minds what to do every round.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on April 04, 2023, 09:40:59 AM

It's worse than WOW.  It's WOW with terrible lag because people can't make up their minds what to do every round.

Thee worst part of that video is those were not family members or friends, they had to be actors because they just didnt even act like normal people do.

Hopefully WOTC didn't pay them much.

I'm laughing my ass off - apparently the VTT demo was on "very high end machine" (I don't know the specs but attendees at the Creator Summit said they were Alienware machines). When the attendees started asking questions about what will the minimum specs required be... the fuckheads at WotC said "Oh... we didn't realize you'd be interested in that?"

They didn't even know what those specs would be - and effectively as of now, yeah you need a "high-end" machine to even run this piece of shit.

D&D aside... (no this isn't D&D) WotC is entering a realm they *have* no idea how to handle. They're producing a videogame and are pretending it's just an "app" to supplement their TTRPG. At least that's how its being sold. But the reality is this is an entirely different industry which they have no real experience in.

BTW - the "Creator Summit" as I've heard about it, was a disaster. So the people they expected to shill their dogshit were there to fight them. Well it'll be fun watching WotC go down on this.

But Chris Cocks totally plays D&D and has for decades, guys. This is his baby, and he claims to be a huge D&D nerd, so obviously that must mean he's got his finger on the pulse of what D&D players truly want: a shitty copy of software that is already available from other companies that apparently has far too much happening on the back end to run on the same fairly decent machines the other software can run on.

Quote from: tenbones on April 04, 2023, 10:13:23 AM
I'm laughing my ass off - apparently the VTT demo was on "very high end machine" (I don't know the specs but attendees at the Creator Summit said they were Alienware machines). When the attendees started asking questions about what will the minimum specs required be... the fuckheads at WotC said "Oh... we didn't realize you'd be interested in that?"

They didn't even know what those specs would be - and effectively as of now, yeah you need a "high-end" machine to even run this piece of shit.

Agreed.  Not knowing the basic requirements for their VTT is a very rookie move and makes them look stupid.

Quote from: tenbones on April 04, 2023, 10:13:23 AMD&D aside... (no this isn't D&D) WotC is entering a realm they *have* no idea how to handle. They're producing a videogame and are pretending it's just an "app" to supplement their TTRPG. At least that's how its being sold. But the reality is this is an entirely different industry which they have no real experience in.

Didnt they try a VTT before and it crashed and burned?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2023, 11:29:48 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 03, 2023, 07:35:32 PM
I do think ttrpgs aren't taking advantage of how tablets make reading much faster. For example, Chaosium still redundantly repeats their rules with minor variations for each campaign setting. When they could save space by releasing rules and campaign settings separately.

But I feel VTT just exacerbates the existing problems with limiting groups' creativity. Your brain and a digital notepad is all the VTT you need. Unless you're playing Neverwinter Nights 3 and making modules for it, then there's no point. VTT is just an inferior tabletop experience. You can already play with others via chat and shared digital notepads.

VTT isn't an inferior tabletop experience, it's a different way of playing, could we play online using ONLY theater of the mind? YES, but not all people like that style, if you can't play in person (my group is in 3 different countries) then playing online is the way, if you like playing with miniatures then a VTT is the way.

In my group we do both, sometimes it's theater of the mind others it's maps and tokens, it all depends on the GM and WHAT we're doing, personally for combat I much rather use maps and minis/tokens, but for everything else I'm fine with theater of the mind. Then there's those times we went left instead of right and the GM rolled a random encounter, then he uses the VTT drawing capabilities like if it was paper and scribbles a map on it.

Now, D&Done isn't for me, because I don't need the animations and because I don't like being the paypig of ANYONE, IF MapTool (free and opensource VTT) was easier to use I would be using that and pushing for my GM to switch to it and save some money, if THEY came out with a 3D version I would still stay in the 2D one.

I mean why use a chat? You could play by snailmail! It's even more analog! or find a happy medium and play by IRCC.

I can understand apps that make bookkeeping easier, provide notepads that better suit the chaotic nature of human thought, provide virtual grids that track PCs and NPCs in combat... but this is a blatant microtransaction scheme.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 10:43:32 AM
Didnt they try a VTT before and it crashed and burned?

The 4E tools that got released were the only completed parts of what was supposed to be a fully integrated virtual tabletop. There's a whole mess involving the lead designer killing themselves and, depending on the story you believe, either destroyed all the code and its backups before offing himself or (slightly more likely) it was all vaporware they were unable to deliver on and the suicide gave them a story of woe to tell (instead of rank incompetence).

Anyway, the 4E tools we got were thrown together in about a month and the whole digital side basically collapsed before Essentials even released (the original builder could be hacked to get the Dark Sun material they had in the database but hadn't turned on at the point they killed the offline version and others created work arounds to update it with the later material).

So, yes, this just feels like 4Ev2.0 all over again.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 04, 2023, 08:17:43 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 03, 2023, 11:29:48 PM
VTT isn't an inferior tabletop experience, it's a different way of playing, could we play online using ONLY theater of the mind? YES, but not all people like that style, if you can't play in person (my group is in 3 different countries) then playing online is the way, if you like playing with miniatures then a VTT is the way.

The group I VTT with is spread from Boston to China and spots in between. One them also sits at a particular place on the spectrum where theatre of the mind visualization is almost impossible for them and they need visual representations (they don't have to be good... but they need to be present) to even be able to function in any sort of combat encounter.

It's one of the better groups I've played with over the decades and it wouldn't even be possible if not for Discord (for voice chat) + Foundry (for visuals).

Well, your friend (and I) aren't grownups according to Pundit...

Granted I could work combat in theater of the mind but I don't like it and it's more work for me to be able to work it, so, given that visual representation is possible my DM provides because he isn't a fucktard.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 04, 2023, 11:05:46 AM
The 4E tools that got released were the only completed parts of what was supposed to be a fully integrated virtual tabletop. There's a whole mess involving the lead designer killing themselves and, depending on the story you believe, either destroyed all the code and its backups before offing himself or (slightly more likely) it was all vaporware they were unable to deliver on and the suicide gave them a story of woe to tell (instead of rank incompetence).

Anyway, the 4E tools we got were thrown together in about a month and the whole digital side basically collapsed before Essentials even released (the original builder could be hacked to get the Dark Sun material they had in the database but hadn't turned on at the point they killed the offline version and others created work arounds to update it with the later material).

So, yes, this just feels like 4Ev2.0 all over again.

Wow, I knew there was something going on and it failed but I didnt know all of that.

Thanks for the full story.

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 04, 2023, 11:51:45 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 04, 2023, 11:05:46 AM
The 4E tools that got released were the only completed parts of what was supposed to be a fully integrated virtual tabletop. There's a whole mess involving the lead designer killing themselves and, depending on the story you believe, either destroyed all the code and its backups before offing himself or (slightly more likely) it was all vaporware they were unable to deliver on and the suicide gave them a story of woe to tell (instead of rank incompetence).

Anyway, the 4E tools we got were thrown together in about a month and the whole digital side basically collapsed before Essentials even released (the original builder could be hacked to get the Dark Sun material they had in the database but hadn't turned on at the point they killed the offline version and others created work arounds to update it with the later material).

So, yes, this just feels like 4Ev2.0 all over again.

Wow, I knew there was something going on and it failed but I didnt know all of that.

Thanks for the full story.

He didn't mention the lead designer also murdered his estranged wife.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2023, 11:30:54 AMWell, your friend (and I) aren't grownups according to Pundit...

Being charitable to him, I meant like "I don't need a public display of rolled dice because I trust my players with the physical dice they roll on their tables".

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 04, 2023, 12:17:26 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2023, 11:30:54 AMWell, your friend (and I) aren't grownups according to Pundit...

Being charitable to him, I meant like "I don't need a public display of rolled dice because I trust my players with the physical dice they roll on their tables".

He meant what he said.

You're aware that you can totally use a VTT and still roll your real dice? You don't have to use their rolling app. I know because we've done it to see if our DM could get better rolls with his real dice and because we wanted the feel of the dice in our hands and the sound of rolling them.

Roll20 also has  a voice chat app, we still use discord for that, and for the text chat (which you can also do on roll20).