Do you use firearms (of the gunpowder variety, not ray-guns) in your fantasy game, or not?  Either way, why?  (answers may differ between your campaigns of course)

Second question: is there a set of firearms rules you use with your pre-4e D&D game (or related cousin - S&W, LL, et al), and if so, what do you like about it?

I'm >this close< to adding muskets to my game, but I'm leery.

Depends. For something like Eberron seems crazy not to have guns - it's got everything else. And personally I was always fond of my regiment of halfling muskeeters from the Five Shires (Mystara).

Then again for something with a more dark ages feel, probably not.

I try to every now and again. Mechanically, I like keeping their normal damage on par with other weapons (no 4d12 guns in my D&D), while using armor penetration or critical damage to set them apart. I also dislike the "forever to load" disadvantage, so I often bring them up to revolver age tech. This might be anachronistic with people still using swords, polearms, and plate, but I've never much cared about that.

Generally no, but there are games I've read which have firearms, and they fit with the ensemble.

Basically depends on whether you're going for an early modern/baroque feel, although in some settings, such as Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen, there's a big story behind the use of gunpowder, beyond just emulating a particular era. E.g. also if I'm not mistaken Shades of Fantasy, and of course Glorantha (Dwarves), have gunpowder as a big secret that's monopolized by a particular sect/faction.

My only concern about using firearms (though not explosives) in D&D is that somehow they bring the weirdness of the D&D hit point system into even starker relief than other weapons, including arrows.

The problem with firearms is that no one knows, really, what hit points represent. People are comfortable with getting a cut from a sword, but not an abrasion from a gun. It is stupid that someone can have enough HP to be shot 10-12 times and be FINE. That's what you have with D&D.

The fixes are equally bad. Like making guns do d10*10 damage, exploding dice, blah blah blah, in an effort to get the characters to act like they are being shot at. Basically, the gun gets HUGE stats, even though a stab from a sword will kill you the same.

The other end is what I do. In my games, you don't get your HP gained after 1st level unless you are actively defending yourself. I made Perception a fighter skill and they get to add their BAB to it when spotting snipers. If a character in any way is trying to defend himself, he gets his HP, so long as that methoid is effective. Standing in the open having a sword fight isn't sufficent, so guns DO change the game. You have to run, shoot back, take cover, or have concealment to keep your HP.

In that case, higher level characters are much better at getting to cover and moving around. Any damage done that doesn't reduce you to your first level HP is technically a miss, and you get those points back when the fight is over, so long as you aren't injured. If you are, you regain health according to the normal rules.

I feel with D&D there are basically 4 options. Describe all gunshot wounds as scratches. Describe all gunshot wounds as deadly, but high level characters are tougher and have more meat. Increase gun damage so that players behave like their characters are being shot at, or not allow them their HP unless they provide an effective defense. In the last case, you have to think long and hard about stealth and perception, but that's what I do.

I wrote up my own gun rules for my Steam Punk setting (Pathfinder). I'll post an unclean version here.

I hear you on that, beejazz - I'm leaning toward revolvers myself, sort of a fantasy-western territory (but categorically not the way Deadlands did it).

It seems like if firearms are commonplace and can easily 'replace' standard fantasy weapons (bows, for example) and do similar damage, then there's no issue.  Except the issue of guns versus armor, and assorted attendant "reality" questions (which I loathe).

I use them in Emern. Guns are actually pretty common. I don't treat them with special rules though. They're shorter range than bows, but harder hitting.

Firearms

Weapon   Damage   Critical Hit Range   Payload   Range Increment   Rate of Fire   Reload Time
Dragon Pistol - Smoothbore   1d10   20 (x3)   1   5'   Single   4 rounds
Ericson Revolver - Rifled   1d12   20 (x3)   6   30'   2 / round   20 rounds
Pocket Pistol - Rifled   1d8   20 (x2)   2   15'   2 / round   10 rounds
Pepperbox - Rifled   1d8   20 (x2)   6   20'   2 / round   20 rounds
Percussion Cap Pistol - Smoothbore   2d8   20 (x3)   1   20'   Single   6 rounds
Percussion Cap Pistol - Rifled   2d6   19+ (x2)   1   30'      12 rounds
                  
Blunderbuss - Smoothbore   5d4   20 (x3)   1   15'   Single   4 rounds
Musket - Smoothbore   2d10   20 (x3)   1   30'   Single   6 rounds
Percussion Cap Rifle   2d8   19+ (x2)   1   50'   Single   12 rounds
Luther Repeating Rifle   2d8   19+ (x2)   7   50'   4 / round   4 rounds
Volley Gun - Rifled   2d8   20 (x2)   7   30'   2 / round   80 rounds
Coach Gun – Solid Slug   2d8   20 (x3)   2   30'   2 / round   20 rounds
Coach Gun - Scattershot   2d6   20 (x3)   2   15'   2 / round   20 rounds
                  
Dwarven Steam Rifle   2d10   19+ (x2)   20   50'   4 / round   10 rounds
                  
Heavy Crossbow   2d6   20 (x3)   1   220'   Single   8 rounds
Light Crossbow   1d8   20 (x3)   1   70'   Single   4 rounds
War Bow   2d6   20 (x3)   1   200'   2 / round   Free Action
Short Bow   1d6   20 (x3)   1   60'   2 / round   Free Action

Firearm Traits
Inaccurate

Weapons with the trait "Inaccurate" suffer a -4 penalty to strike beyond their first range increment.

Scattershot

Weapons that fire a spread such as the Dragon Pistol, Coach Gun and Blunderbuss gain a +4 to strike when making a full attack (even if the shooter only gets 1 attack) at their 2nd-4th range increments.

When making an attack roll with one of these weapons, all targets within 2 and a half feet to either side of the barrel for the weapons full range suffer the attack. One attack roll is made. This roll is applied to the AC of every target in range. Anyone hit suffers damage. The GM can request damage be roll separately for each target or average damage can be delivered to everyone hit.

Such weapons can only score critical hits in their first range increment. If the shooter accepts a critical hit against a target in the first range increment, no other targets suffer damage.

Armor Piercing

This weapon ignores armor in its first range increment. Plate steel, such as the Breast Plate, Steel Cuirass and Steel Shield are still effective.

Armor Piercing - Greater

Weapons with Armor Piercing – Greater automatically have Armor Piercing.

Weapons with this trait can ignore plate steel in their first range increment and all other armor types in their second.

Dangerous

Whenever this weapon's wielder confirms a natural 1 with another natural 1, the weapon explodes. The wielder suffers 2d6 points of damage directly to HP and loses all remaining SDC. In addition, he becomes "Nauseated" for 1d4 rounds.

Firearm Details

Dragon Pistol
●   Scattershot
●   Armor Piercing

This wide barreled weapon is designed to increase the spread of its shot and to facilitate faster reloading.

Ericson Revolver
●   Dangerous
●   Armor Piercing

The first true ball and cap revolver, this weapon must have the firing chambers waxed in order to prevent accidentally discharging all of them at once.

Pocket Pistol
●   Inaccurate
●   Dangerous
●   Armor Piercing

This small handgun can easily be concealed in a stocking. The barrels tilt forward for easier reloading.
Firing both barrels grants +2 to the Critical Hit confirmation roll, no additional damage dice and +4 on all intimidation checks immediately after.

Pepperbox
●   Inaccurate
●   Dangerous
●   Armor Piercing

Like the pocket pistol, the pepperbox's barrels tilt forward for quick loading. This gun is extremely dangerous to the wielder. Its many barrels are built close together and are prone to firing together or exploding.

Percussion Cap Pistols
●   Armor Piercing – Greater

These high powered, muzzle loaded weapons are capable of penetrating bulletproof armor at pointblank range.

The smoothbore variation is inaccurate.

Blunderbuss
●   Scattershot
●   Armor Piercing

This weapon was designed for cavalry and mounted infantry to be fast and easy to reload while mounted. Its wide muzzle opening facilitates faster reloading while not appreciably altering the weapon's scatter.

All targets within 75' of the blunderbuss in a straight line, five feet wide, are targeted by this attack. One strike roll is made, which is applied to each target. The GM may call for separate damage to be rolled against each victim.

The blunderbuss can only score a critical hit in its first range increment. If it does so, no additional targets suffer damage.

Musket
●   Inaccurate
●   Armor Piercing - Greater

The musket is an antique weapon, replaced by the percussion cap rifle in most places.

Many muskets have been rifled, which increases the range by 10' and doubles the reloading time. Rifled muskets are no longer inaccurate.

Percussion Cap Rifle
●   Armor Piercing – Greater

Some percussion cap rifles (like handguns) were originally flintlock weapons that were converted, though "modern" firearms exclusively use percussion caps because they are reliable in wet conditions. These rifles are muzzle loaded and high powered, capable of penetrating bulletproof armor at point blank range.

Luther Repeating Rifle
●   Armor Piercing – Greater

This weapon is the first human firearm to use shells. A magazine containing 7 rounds is loaded into the gun. After each round is fired, the next shot is readied by pulling a lever (lever action). This weapon is very new, however its application is obvious; governments and individuals with the money are hurrying to employ them.

Volley Gun
●   Armor Piercing - Greater
●   Dangerous
●   Inaccurate

The volley gun is a muzzle loaded rifle with 7 barrels. Each barrel must be rotated into firing position (as a move action) prior to firing. The volley gun has been completely phased out by the repeating rifle, which performs the same task more efficiently. Still, they can be found.

Coach Gun
●   Scattershot
●   Inaccurate (solid slug)
●   Armor Piercing

The coach gun is a common weapon for hunting, home defense, and travel. Two long barrels break forward for easy loading. Also known as a shotgun, this weapon is deadly at close range. The coach gun is one of the most versatile weapons.

While it takes a full turn (with rapid reload) to load the weapon, a single barrel can be loaded in 5 rounds.

When using a solid slug, the weapon's range is longer and the damage to a single target greater.

Both barrels can be fired simultaneously. Doing so grants a +4 bonus on intimidation rolls and a +4 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls (though it does no extra damage). When firing both barrels, the coach gun crits on a 19+ but retains its x3 multiplier.

Traditional Bows and Crossbows

The short bow, war bow, and hand crossbow are armor piercing.

Heavy crossbows and compound short / war bows have Armor Piercing – Greater, though this bonus doesn't apply against shields.

Here's mine. They're house rule #2

Yep, there are guns in both my homebrew setting and in the Ravenloft games I run.  I just use the firearm rules from the Ravenloft books I have.

Honestly?  While players might be attracted to the higher damage offered by firearms they quickly learn that the noise a gun makes is a huge disadvantage (especially when the PCs are trying to sneak around in a dungeon/castle/etc.).

Ranged Combat

Firearm Attack Bonus

Firearms add the shooter's Wisdom bonus to strike.

Aimed Fire

Archers and gunmen that are not threatened by any enemy gain a +4 bonus to strike when making a full attack.

This bonus is not granted to characters that have been shot at since their last turn.

Burst Fire

Many firearms can only be fired once per round. A character with more than one attack will not be able to take more than 1 unless he has a weapon that allows it. The rate of fire represents the maximum speed at which a firearm can be fired under ideal conditions.

Any character can fire a gun at its maximum rate, however his attack rolls are made without modifiers and critical hits are always 20 (x2) regardless of weapon. Firing bursts with two pistols stacks the two weapon fighting penalties on top of the denial of normal bonuses.

Four Types of Cover

Partial Cover

A character that has less than half his body concealed by cover gains a +4 AC bonus and +1 to Reflex saves.

Cover

A character that has most of his body concealed but is still able to see and attack targets beyond the cover gains a +8 AC bonus and +2 on reflex saving throws. Characters using cover are considered to have evasion.

Total Cover

Characters with total cover gain a +12 bonus to AC and a +4 bonus to Reflex saving throws. While behind total cover, characters gain improved evasion.
Characters that attack from behind total cover are considered to have normal cover.

While under total cover, character must make perception checks with -4 penalties in order to locate enemies they aren't already aware of.

Improved Cover

Improved cover is total cover that has been engineered to allow those taking refuge to shoot at their enemies without difficulty. Walls with arrow and trenches are two good example of improved cover.
Characters can fire from improved cover while retaining the Total Cover bonuses.

Shields and Cover

Characters with large shields are always considered to have partial cover, gaining an additional +4 AC vs. Ranged Weapons. Shields naturally impart a +1 on reflex saves against area of effect attacks.

As a standard action, characters with large shields can "take cover," gaining a +8 AC vs. Ranged Weapons. While taking cover, the character gains +2 to all reflex saves against area of effect attacks and is considered to have Evasion.

All shields are effective against arrows and bolts. Only the heavy steel shield is effective against bullets.

These bonuses are in addition to the normal bonuses to AC granted by the shield.

Characters taking cover are not able to make attacks of opportunity.
While taking cover, a character using a shield can advance towards a shooter.

Inappropriate Behavior

Characters caught flatfooted by firearms as well as those behaving inappropriately (not seeking cover) are in greater danger from firearms. Attacks made against them score critical hits on 19+ for x3 damage and automatically confirm their success.

Partial cover is not sufficient to avoid this penalty. A character must have full cover to avoid the heightened risk of suffering a critical hit.

I had a country who used Enchanted Firearms, only their mages carried or used them because it took a specialized spell they maintained to keep them from exploding. Of course their mages never learned direct attacked spells and had better combat skills in general. (Custom system I played with) Mostly their mages were enchanter/alchemist sorts anyway.


As a followup. If I set a game in the 17th/Early 18th Century era (for feel, not Earth.) Would you expect firearms? Especially in a horror-fantasy setting?

Had a character who dual-wielded single-shot pistols (from the book, base stats etc.) and I spent lots of gold magicin' 'em up so they auto-loaded (basically I fired one per round while the other reloaded itself), one had electrical damage, the other fire, and some +'s to hit/damage on them. I think they ended up costing about 38,000gp each or something but hey, made them literally by-the-book. I could probably have gotten "more bang for my buck" if I'd gone with another type of weapon, but it was strictly a matter of style - a direct result of me playing Torchlight, btw.

Quote from: VectorSigma;493151I hear you on that, beejazz - I'm leaning toward revolvers myself, sort of a fantasy-western territory (but categorically not the way Deadlands did it).

It seems like if firearms are commonplace and can easily 'replace' standard fantasy weapons (bows, for example) and do similar damage, then there's no issue.  Except the issue of guns versus armor, and assorted attendant "reality" questions (which I loathe).

In the system I'm working on, characters have a massive damage threshold past which you roll on a wounds table. Armor does damage reduction. So in enough armor, the hit points that don't kill you are concussive force or something. Without armor? You're getting hurt. Bad.

Same applies to most lethal weapons though, as the rules are meant to deal with the weirdness of D&D style hp more generally.

Wouldn't be hard to incorporate the same general concept in D&D.

Cranewings, out of curiosity, why Wisdom?

I don't want whole pages of combat-rules modifications.  I just want pistols and muskets and things that don't each do 5d6 damage or whatever.

I'm sorely tempted just to 're-skin' bows, but that seems unsatisfying in its own way.