[Firearms] Best Firearms Combat Rules?

trechriron · September 08, 2011, 08:18:23 PM

In your opinion, what are the best firearm combat rules you have GM'ed or Played?

How do they handle;

1) Autofire
2) Semi-Auto Fire
3) Reloading
4) Recoil
5) Ammo
6) Variance/similarity to thrown weapons or muscle powered ranged weapons

?

Also, any pet peeves that many/most systems seem to do wrong/poorly?

Thanks,

David Johansen · September 08, 2011, 08:26:18 PM

"Best" is pretty subjective. GURPS is pretty good as long as you can live with the hand wave of "dodging" bringing rifle range accuracy levels down to something a hair more realistic. In GURPS a round is one second long. Loading a magazine generally takes two rounds. Autofire weapons have a "Recoil" value that is the number of points under the chance of success per hit. Ammo is tracked in detail.

Now if you're looking for results like supression that's a different level of "Best".

Talking_Muffin · September 09, 2011, 05:14:06 AM

I'd have to say Cyberpunk 2020.

jibbajibba · September 09, 2011, 05:47:12 AM

best as in most realistic, most playable, the ones that simulate action movies the best, the ones that get out of the way and let you roleplay,

?

Sigmund · September 09, 2011, 09:02:14 AM

Quote from: jibbajibba;477604best as in most realistic, most playable, the ones that simulate action movies the best, the ones that get out of the way and let you roleplay, ?

Great question. The most important in order to answer I'd say.

Silverlion · September 09, 2011, 10:43:24 AM

Quote from: Talking_Muffin;477603I'd have to say Cyberpunk 2020.

I found Friday Night Firefight (Cyberpunk 1E) better myself. Crazy but better.

I am not sure what I'd consider "best." I think that Milleniums End (IIRC) were decent. But that has been ages and ages and now somewhat obscure.

RPGPundit · September 10, 2011, 11:48:07 AM

For me? Any game that involves just rolling one die to see if you hit or not. The last thing I fucking care about is "realism", and unless you're playing a very specific kind of game where the emulation demands it, a great deal of complexity in the rules is usually misplaced gun-fetishism.
Its the kind of thing that might make sense if you're playing a game about special forces ops; but it doesn't make sense in, say, a supers game, or an occult horror game, or even a wuxia game.

RPGPundit

Cranewings · September 10, 2011, 12:21:05 PM

I like the gun rules in Dark Hershey. The correlation between what you need to hit and hitting the left leg is really awesome!

Gruntfuttock · September 10, 2011, 01:47:04 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;477805For me? Any game that involves just rolling one die to see if you hit or not. The last thing I fucking care about is "realism", and unless you're playing a very specific kind of game where the emulation demands it, a great deal of complexity in the rules is usually misplaced gun-fetishism.
Its the kind of thing that might make sense if you're playing a game about special forces ops; but it doesn't make sense in, say, a supers game, or an occult horror game, or even a wuxia game.

RPGPundit

Quoted for truth.

I have an occasional player who is a total gun nut, despite being British and so having very little first-hand knowledge of firearms. You'd think that he'd like simple 'cinematic' gun rules that allow him to be a hotshot gunfighter.

Nope.

He wants 'realism' despite having no real idea of what that means. If I let him (which I don't) he'd argue about how a particular gun should be modelled by the system during the bloody game, and how the system and I have got it wrong.

S'mon · September 10, 2011, 03:05:23 PM

2e Twilight 2000. Nothing like rolling a d6 for every bullet in an autofire burst.

When those 20 d6s hit the table it is ROCK AND ROLL BABY YEAH!!

S'mon · September 10, 2011, 03:07:17 PM

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;477824Quoted for truth.

I have an occasional player who is a total gun nut, despite being British and so having very little first-hand knowledge of firearms.

I'll get me coat...

RPGPundit · September 11, 2011, 03:28:43 AM

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;477824Quoted for truth.

I have an occasional player who is a total gun nut, despite being British and so having very little first-hand knowledge of firearms. You'd think that he'd like simple 'cinematic' gun rules that allow him to be a hotshot gunfighter.

Nope.

He wants 'realism' despite having no real idea of what that means. If I let him (which I don't) he'd argue about how a particular gun should be modelled by the system during the bloody game, and how the system and I have got it wrong.

Its an all-too-common problem.

RPGPundit

Ian Warner · September 11, 2011, 04:06:31 AM

I've noticed some games with simplifed gun rules like nWoD later release supplements for gun nuts with hyper detailed rules. Really you shouldn't have to. Either people should shut up and put up or you should have gun creation rules in the core.

silva · September 11, 2011, 01:14:39 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;477805For me? Any game that involves just rolling one die to see if you hit or not. The last thing I fucking care about is "realism", and unless you're playing a very specific kind of game where the emulation demands it, a great deal of complexity in the rules is usually misplaced gun-fetishism.
Its the kind of thing that might make sense if you're playing a game about special forces ops; but it doesn't make sense in, say, a supers game, or an occult horror game, or even a wuxia game.

RPGPundit

Ditto.

GamerDude · September 13, 2011, 04:49:00 AM

Mongoose Traveller. Ranges are fixed as in, for every weapon "close" is 1-2 squares away, but depending on the type of firearm they have their own set of modifiers for that range (as opposed to like D&D3rd where Long Bows are 100 ft, Composite long are 110 ft, and then you deal with how many "increments" away the target is).

Also between the Core Rule Book and the Consolidated Supply Catalog the list of firearms is HUGE - and for the most part are done as classes/types of weapons vs the 82 different types of sniper rifles each listed separately (ok, I made that number up)

It has great rules for burst and full-auto fire etc.

I've been running it since the open play test in early 2008.

[Firearms] Best Firearms Combat Rules?

Cranewings