Everyone has certain dealbreakers when it comes to RPGs.

Narrative Rules vs. Traditional Rules
Rules Heavy vs. Rules Light
One Book with supplements vs. Multiple Core Rulebooks
Funky Dice vs. Classic Dice
Books vs. Books plus cards/paraphernalia
Class-based vs. Skill-based
Levels vs. No Levels

FFG Star Wars I think just has more deal-breakers than most RPGs.  They start with the Multiple Core Rulebooks approach like the 40k RPG, but add-in Funky Dice, Class-based, and Narrative Rules while being fairly Rules Heavy.  Just more reasons for people to not like the game compared to other mass-market games.

I find that the Basic boxed sets are detailed enough for most of my needs. By buying all three of those I get a lot of goodies without having to deal with the depth of some of the character trees and so on.

I also bought the hardback books but may never play using them. Too many options, which is probably good for some players but just drives me nuts as a GM because it allows too much of the min/max effect as players work the system.

The dice are a bit strange but oddly fun to use, at least in a short campaign. In a long-term game they may start to get annoying, but so far my players like them.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;875282Also, I seem to remember the 2d20 System being shit on a bit here...the one Jay Little created? That powers the game you develop, correct? Do you dislike that, too?

Absolutely. Like you, I'm a complete idiot and if anybody ever releases something that I don't like I immediately must forswear and despise everything else they have ever made. (/s)

Quote from: CRKrueger;875379Everyone has certain dealbreakers when it comes to RPGs.

I get all that. I just find that as all these years have rolled by under my table, my ability to make a game work the way I do things (which I would say I run a "in-depth Sandbox-style, world-in-motion" etc. kinda thing) the system matters less and less.

I *dislike* 4e for instance. Mainly because the mechanics are limp to me. I don't find it fun to express D&D this way. But could I make it work? Sure.

What I find a bit odd about the line of reasoning with the "paywall" - is that by a LARGE, HUGELY VAST margin - the majority of the content that exists in the Star Wars Expanded Universe comes from the West End game>Comics>Novels>Videogames>Movies in that general order. Everything from the infrastructure of Empire, the timeline, the makeup of the Jedi/Sith blah blah blah. Any attempt to organize an RPG around Star Wars at this point *has* to break that massive amount of content up. It's impossible to do it justice otherwise (see the Kara-Tur thread). It seems silly to me to expect that.

There is an interesting thing that might deserve it's own thread - the connection between Intellectual Property/Genre/System AS an RPG. FFG would never have gotten me to even look at this system without the Star Wars license. I was happy as a clam using my West End books (still am). But to me, it's an endorsement to the miracle of their design that I took a big swig of their Kool-Aid, and used their system *my way* (I don't play modern-era SW) and sure as shit... it worked great. And I have my "dealbreakers" too... and yet. I can't find a whole lot I dislike about the game. There's nitpicks sure. But they're mostly due to things they didn't account for that are easily handled with leveraging the mechanics as necessary.

Quote from: CRKrueger;875379FFG Star Wars I think just has more deal-breakers than most RPGs.  They start with the Multiple Core Rulebooks approach like the 40k RPG, but add-in Funky Dice, Class-based, and Narrative Rules while being fairly Rules Heavy.  Just more reasons for people to not like the game compared to other mass-market games.

If it's not your cuppa, nothing I can say will change that for anyone. I'm against most of these things in general - yet... I really like and respect the design and production quality of this game.

Also, the term 'paywall' has been abused to the point of meaninglessness now.

Quote from: danbuter;875155I like the game mechanics, even with the funky dice. My issue is that the rules are basically "collectible".

Want ships? Buy Age of Rebellion.

Want wookies? Buy Edge of Empire.

Want jedi? Sorry, they don't exist in this game..., but you can be force-sensitive if you buy Force and Destiny!   (And seriously, who the fuck thought leaving jedi out of a Star Wars game was a good idea? All of the movies are ABOUT jedi.)

The funky dice and utilizing symbols are a part of the same same 'walled garden' strategy that both cuts out third parties but leaves you strongly motivated to complete your purchase with additional accessories from a single, compatible source - like Scientology or buying Apple consumer products.

Years from now when the interest is gone, the dice are no longer sold, and the app is no longer cared for the flaw of custom dice will be revealed.  Mainly you can't play the game without modifying good number dice.

Quote from: Snowman0147;875424Years from now when the interest is gone, the dice are no longer sold, and the app is no longer cared for the flaw of custom dice will be revealed.  Mainly you can't play the game without modifying good number dice.

Yeah.  After all, it's not like they got you covered by giving you examples of how to use basic dice in place of the custom dice.

Oh wait, they do.

Quote from: tenbones;875410FFG would never have gotten me to even look at this system without the Star Wars license.

No one bought any other game of Jay Little's either that didn't come with a decades-old IP attached.  Which is why when MWP and Modiphius peddle their narrative systems, they do it through any IP they can manage to buy.

Quote from: Snowman0147;875424Years from now when the interest is gone, the dice are no longer sold, and the app is no longer cared for the flaw of custom dice will be revealed.  Mainly you can't play the game without modifying good number dice.

Brutally onerous. But there is an official sticker sheet for the dice you can print out and sticker normal or blank dice.

Theres probably a conversion table or two by now as well.

Quote from: Omega;875446Brutally onerous. But there is an official sticker sheet for the dice you can print out and sticker normal or blank dice.

Theres probably a conversion table or two by now as well.

Actually, the conversion table has been there since the beta.  I know, cuz I own two of their beta books, as well as their full releases.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875198As someone who's been playing this game line since the first beta came out, I gotta say...  What?

Did you actually play any of these?

Not sure who you directed that at, but yes, I played the starter set.  The adventure was a bland railroad, but that did not matter.  We were playing it to try out the rules and went into it expecting a starter adventure to be non-interesting.  

Gave it two solid sessions to complete the adventure.  Every other version of Star Wars has hooked in that amount of time.  Probably too set in my ways to grok the funky dice and random boons/setbacks.  

Gave it to an old buddy.  Have not talked to him since, but hopefully he liked it well enough.

Quote from: Omega;875446Brutally onerous. But there is an official sticker sheet for the dice you can print out and sticker normal or blank dice.

Theres probably a conversion table or two by now as well.

There is a conversion table.

It's in the core books.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;875440Yeah.  After all, it's not like they got you covered by giving you examples of how to use basic dice in place of the custom dice.

Oh wait, they do.

Point is if they built the game to last they wouldn't need to do that.  Instead they are giving you a lazy patch by giving you one of two things.  A table that translate number dice which slows down the game more.  The other option is to stick on those symbols on to dice.  Not a pretty option that will worn out the stickers and leave you dice sticky.

Just be honest the only reason your playing this shit game is because it has the Star Wars label on it.  This game won't survive within five years is my guess.

Generally speaking, the idea that no game should be allowed to do something if it requires you to own funky, unusual dice for it is completely ridiculous in an industry that got its start with D&D.