Seems like a neat idea, does such a thing exist?

What I'm contemplating is a feat that reduces the cost of one of your existing metamagic feats by 1 level. So you could cast "still" or "silent" spells at no level increase, for instance, or cast quicken with only a +3 level increase. Since you have to already have taken a metamagic feat for it to apply to, does it seem overpowered to, in essence, take two feats to get this kind of bonus?

Easy Metamagic X.

You apply it to a specific Metamagic feat and it reduce it cost by 1. Don't stack with itself (I think). Was from an issue of Dragon. Don't know which.

But we use it

Cool, thanks! I'm not sure I'd have a problem with it stacking with itself or not, since it's burning up feat slots, which are pretty limited.

Edit: Never mind, it should definately not stack. The idea of somebody burning 4 feats to be able to quicken ALL of their spells just gave me a cardiac arrest.

Quote from: Name LipsCool, thanks! I'm not sure I'd have a problem with it stacking with itself or not, since it's burning up feat slots, which are pretty limited.

Edit: Never mind, it should definately not stack. The idea of somebody burning 4 feats to be able to quicken ALL of their spells just gave me a cardiac arrest.

there is an epic feat in the epic book that reduce the cost of all your Metamagic feats by 1  (minimum 1) and stack with itself! Woohoo!

There is something in the PHB2 called, I believe, Arcane Thesis. It applies only to a specific spell, and it has a mid-range skill prereq (K: Arcana 9, I think) but it lets you apply any of your metamagic feats to that spell with one less level cost -- except Heighten Spell, because the feat already grants a bonus to caster level as well.

I can't be more specific, because I don't have the book here at work.

Quote from: JamieThere is something in the PHB2 called, I believe, Arcane Thesis. It applies only to a specific spell, and it has a mid-range skill prereq (K: Arcana 9, I think) but it lets you apply any of your metamagic feats to that spell with one less level cost -- except Heighten Spell, because the feat already grants a bonus to caster level as well.

I can't be more specific, because I don't have the book here at work.

Yup, +2 to caster level with that spell.

Quote from: YigYup, +2 to caster level with that spell.

I actually really like that feat -- before the introduction of some of the alternate base classes (like the Duskblade) I was trying to come up with a decent spell list for an armored sorceror, so I focussed on spells w/o somatic components (there are a few out there.) This would be nice to add on a couple of spells with the Still Spell feat added on for "free."

Quote from: Name LipsSeems like a neat idea, does such a thing exist?

What I'm contemplating is a feat that reduces the cost of one of your existing metamagic feats by 1 level. So you could cast "still" or "silent" spells at no level increase, for instance, or cast quicken with only a +3 level increase. Since you have to already have taken a metamagic feat for it to apply to, does it seem overpowered to, in essence, take two feats to get this kind of bonus?

I would totally go with this, not sure I really like the idea of the Epic Level feat, but then a lot of the epic level feats trouble me...  I prefer it working with only one metamagic feat, though I suppose I could see putting a restriction on it that it couldn't drop the level increase below +1 if one was really worried about a pc with all of thier spells being silent or stilled.

Quote from: cnath.rmI prefer it working with only one metamagic feat, though I suppose I could see putting a restriction on it that it couldn't drop the level increase below +1 if one was really worried about a pc with all of thier spells being silent or stilled.

If someone is spending TWO feats to always have their spells silent or stilled, I got no problem with that.  It's cool but expensive.

Quote from: YigEasy Metamagic X.

You apply it to a specific Metamagic feat and it reduce it cost by 1. Don't stack with itself (I think). Was from an issue of Dragon. Don't know which.

But we use it

I think Easy Metamagic still required the minimum level of the metamagic feat to be 1.  Arcane Thesis doesn't have that limitation though.  A couple of other options also exist, but they all seem to have that minimum level duration.

One of my absolute favorite feats is Nonverbal Spell, zero level modifier, and it allows you to cast while just making some sounds.  So you can cast your spell while holding a conversation with someone, etc.  Doesn't help with silence, but it's an awesome game effect.

Quote from: JanosI think Easy Metamagic still required the minimum level of the metamagic feat to be 1.  Arcane Thesis doesn't have that limitation though.  A couple of other options also exist, but they all seem to have that minimum level duration.

One of my absolute favorite feats is Nonverbal Spell, zero level modifier, and it allows you to cast while just making some sounds.  So you can cast your spell while holding a conversation with someone, etc.  Doesn't help with silence, but it's an awesome game effect.

You want something wicked, take this:

Nonverbal Spell;
Sudden Still;
Sudden Maximize;
Sudden Widen;

and cast Vortex of Teeth (I think that's the one...) You'll do 24 pts of damage every round for 7 rounds to everyone in a radius of 40 feet, with a 5-ft safe square at the centre. And no one will know what happened.

For four feats and a spell, you'd damn well better be able to do something impressive!

And that sounds like something to base a whole adventure around.  Neat.  

Quote from: CyberzombieFor four feats and a spell, you'd damn well better be able to do something impressive!

Especially with three of the feats being one-use-a-day feats. You'd only get one shot, but one shot might be all you need.

Quote from: CyberzombieAnd that sounds like something to base a whole adventure around.  Neat.  

Yes, I think it would make more sense for an NPC, given its limited usage. But it would be a very nasty NPC, because you can do that at 7th level.

I'd pair him with my Critical Strike Fiend (see below) and see what havoc they could unleash.

CSF: Power Critical gives a +4 to confirm a crit with one weapon, and it stacks. The prerequesites mean that you can take it 3 times by sixth level as a fighter -- and require that you have WF in the given weapon as well. So picture this:

Level 6 fighter, Keen Falchion, STR 16, WF: Falchion, Power Critical Falchion x3: You have a +11 to hit (+6 BAB, +3 STR, +1 WF, +1 from mwk Falchion), threaten on a 15-20, and have +23 to confirm a critical (all of the above +12 from the 3 Power Critical feats.)

And while you'd be substantially less effective without that Falchion, you still have 3 feats (4 if you're human) to try to cover your gap. Improved Unarmed Strike, perhaps.

Again, for that many feats, you damn well better rock at your chosen schtick.    Given how many monsters that PCs encounter are undead, constructs, or are otherwise immune to crits, I don't think the feat is overpowered at all.

Now, on an NPC going after a party, it becomes a little more potent, but not enough to ruin the fun of the game, I think.

I'm in love with Arcane Thesis.  You can reduce the metamagic cost down to 0 with it, and apply multiple nasty effects that way.  I'm going to start using Searing Scortching Fell Weakening fireballs.