Quote from: Erik BoielleHmmm. Is there really anyone out there who doesn't think massive multiple voting is involved in any online poll?

Not on the ENnies board.  Now I have some questions for you:
1. Just because everyone else is doing it, does that make it right?
2. Just because you can break the rules, does it mean you should?
3. If someone breaks the rules, brags about it then gets caught, shouldn't there be consequences for the rule-breaker?

Quote from: DeniseHi Jim,

We added the following sentence:
"Just remember, even if you do have access to multiple IP addresses, we follow the democratic principle of one person, one vote."

Before we were running with a gentleman's agreement based on the aforementioned principle, but figured we'd better hammer the point home.

So before that line was written, there actually was no written instructions for voting that limited anyone to one person one vote?  I think, from what I can tell, the IP checking was in place, but there was noting explicitly stating a person could only vote once. So was it assumed that people would understand the implied meaning of the IP checking?

I ask all this because you've accused someone of cheating (which could very well be the case), but the rule in question does not seem to have been explictly been stated - at least as far as I can tell.

Quote from: DeniseNot on the ENnies board.  Now I have some questions for you:
1. Just because everyone else is doing it, does that make it right?
2. Just because you can break the rules, does it mean you should?
3. If someone breaks the rules, brags about it then gets caught, shouldn't there be consequences for the rule-breaker?

Well, this is my point.  I don't seem to be able to find any rule that said, prior to your addition yesterday, that I could only vote once.  I, in fact, considered voting more than once because I assumed this was what people did since there was no rule explicitly stating otherwise.

Now to you, and to others, and to the board, this might seem like bending the rules, or intentionally cheating.  But to a newcomer like me, this didn't seem to be a stretch.

Is there something in the judge application that states this is the rule?  That would make it clear to the people who were involved (the Fear the Boot folks), but it still wasn't clear to the general population.  Again, this is all based on my searching the site - I could have missed it somewhere...

Quote from: James J SkachI ask all this because you've accused someone of cheating (which could very well be the case), but the rule in question does not seem to have been explictly been stated - at least as far as I can tell.

Do you suffer from Asperger's Syndrome? Did your mother have to explicitly tell you not to walk off high ledges as a kid? Do you twist at rules like this with your DM??

Quote from: PookaDo you suffer from Asperger's Syndrome? Did your mother have to explicitly tell you not to walk off high ledges as a kid? Do you twist at rules like this with your DM??

Hey, he's just asking. No harm in askin'

For some reason I seem to recall a previous Ennies (might have been Origins Award) where you were only supposed to vote once per day, but they pretty much encouraged multiple votes.

Hey, perverse question, can I disqualify people by voting for them twice, then fessing up to it? That would be kinda funny.:haw:

You're right!

At no point before the 6th of August did we ever explicitly state that voting more than once was against the rules.  We also failed to warn anyone that it was wrong to offer bribes to voters, or to threaten them.  And to inform them that water is, indeed :eek: wet.

We will be implementing new policies and rules- and posting them in great length on the ennieawards.com site.

Quote from: James J SkachI ask all this because you've accused someone of cheating (which could very well be the case), but the rule in question does not seem to have been explictly been stated - at least as far as I can tell.

Quote from: DeniseNot on the ENnies board.  Now I have some questions for you:
1. Just because everyone else is doing it, does that make it right?

Certainly not. And certainly not anymore than doing "it" makes "it" wrong. Which in this case until you guys decided it was wrong post incident, it wasn't wrong.

Quote2. Just because you can break the rules, does it mean you should?

I understand the spirit of this question, but I think this is kind of crass of you. You're asking for our understanding, and for us to make an allowance but you, by which I mean the Imperial you-the ENnies staff-seem unwilling to make the same allowances.

Now perhaps you believe you're holding yourself to some higher standard, and certainly that's laudable, but I'd think that fan reaction combined with reactions across the community seem to show you guys were off base in your "accusations". (Forgive me if that's too strong of a word.)

I really think you guys owe FtB and their crew a pretty public apology-if you have already, than I apologize for demanding such again.

Quote3. If someone breaks the rules, brags about it then gets caught, shouldn't there be consequences for the rule-breaker?

Except they broke no rules, weren't really bragging and you pretty much know this. So really your logic is good for the next case right, but not so much here?

If you were a nominee, then sure, you could get yourself DQ'd for voting for yourself twice.  Dare to dream, friend!  Start up a fan site or publishing company, produce some excellent material to get yourself nominated, then deliberately throw the world the goat by getting yourself disqualified.  ANARCHY!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem.

And I'm pretty sure that no ENnies Awards have encouraged multiple votes.  

Quote from: Abyssal MawFor some reason I seem to recall a previous Ennies (might have been Origins Award) where you were only supposed to vote once per day, but they pretty much encouraged multiple votes.

Hey, perverse question, can I disqualify people by voting for them twice, then fessing up to it? That would be kinda funny.:haw:

This is where we part ways, Paul.
There may have not been a codified rule against stuffing the ballots, but any reasonable person knowing that we were tracking IPs would conclude that this was to prevent multiple votes.  The vast majority of our voters live in a democratic society.  A fundamental principle thereof is one person, one vote.

Voting more than once is wrong, and they know it.  They admitted it.  They apologized.

I'll concede they weren't necessarily "bragging".  They were just joking in public about what they had done.

Quote from: Serious PaulExcept they broke no rules, weren't really bragging and you pretty much know this. So really your logic is good for the next case right, but not so much here?

Quote from: DeniseThis is where we part ways, Paul.

Fair enough. I do disagree with you, but if this is where you've drawn your personal line who am I to press you?

Here's the transcript.

Quote from: Fear the Boot, July 25If you have have not voted yet or if there is a computer you have not voted from yet because it's by IP. I will tell you guys this: I am a consultant and have access to many clients' servers. I have voted from all of them. I'll tell you right now this is what happens when you unleash nerds upon a voting contest... My brother who works for Microsoft says that they have a ton of internal IPs. He cycled through all of them; every single one of them has been used for an abuse vote... You're gonna get us DQed. This is exactly what happens when you unleash this many nerds on a voting contest but, if you're an honest person who has not voted for us yet, please go out to //www.ennieawards.com.

Make of it what you will.

AHEM!
You are missing out on the tone, the context and the rest of the conversation.

I suppose the tone of the podcast matters, even after one of the podcasters admitted that he had, indeed, voted for himself more than once?  Outside of the podcast?

Geez.  It's a simple matter here.

1. Fear The Boot jokes about how easy to cheat the ENnies, casually implies that they have already done so.

2. ENnies people do something behind the scenes, make some decisions, and ask Fear the Boot to step out of the running.

3. Fear the Boot is disqualified.  End of story.


But wait!  For some inexplicable reason, the story doesn't end there!  Instead we have:

4. Intarwebs rally behind downtrodden heroes, Fear The Boot!

5. Wild accusations are thrown at the ENnies staff (who are mostly volunteer, I should add) including distortment of facts, like issues of "mass rigging" and "teh conspeerasees!"

6. Fear The Boot gets plenty of press from this.  I know I never heard of them before this came up.

7. People who know dick all about the situation think they know enough about the situation to open their big mouths.

8. Some folks on the RPG Site come up with the genius idea of "if it's not explicitedly disallowed, then it should not be wrong" argument.

The reason is plainly and easily that the programmer guy who runs the vote is a whiney bitch who takes himself way to seriously.
Again, the "official" reason was the "dishonouring of the awards"
 
Dishonourable, my ass.

Quote from: Roudi8. Some folks on the RPG Site come up with the genius idea of "if it's not explicitedly disallowed, then it should not be wrong" argument.

For starters, this isn't some political competetion where the winner is endowed with a job or powers, it's just a popularity contest. Just admit that the stakes are lower. If people take the brief moment to find out that they can vote more than once, then they just might if it's not explicitly disallowed, because they don't see some earthshaking harm in voting for their favorite hobby trifle in some internet popularity contest. This is not new people, and if you think so, you must be very new to internet in general.

If you need further convincing, consider that the most well-known popularity contest available to the public in the US is American Idol, and they do allow people to vote more than once, and boy do they.

Don't have to be a genius to figure that one out.