Would H.P. Lovecraft's stories have the same impact, the same cosmic dread, if not for the author's own phobias, anxieties, and prejudices?
The best way to craft any good horror story (or roleplaying game scenario, whatever the case might be) is to bring real fears into it. And the truest and most convincing way to inject real fear into a narrative is to put your own fears into it.
I'm afraid of social media. Lately I've been reading about the history of mass hysteria, and the epidemiology of violence and suicide. Werther effect. Tarantism. Witch trials. Dancing plague. Satanic ritual abuse. I fear that social media may be an effective vector for hysterical contagion. We can see it already with the anti-vaccer movement; normal people like you and I that have been filled with such irrational fear of autism that they refuse vaccinations, transforming their children into an army of mini Typhoid-Maries and sending them out to infect everyone around them with contagions of a more biological nature.
Now, how do I put this fear to use? It could be used in a Call of Cthulhu or All Flesh Must Be Eaten game where the populace is being transformed by a mimetic virus. Stephen King wrote a book called Cell along those lines, and I believe there's a story by another author (I haven't read yet) where the English language itself is a carrier for mimetic disease. We also see a fascinating intersection of biological, mimetic, and computer infections in Peter Watt's Rifters trilogy. Any other ideas?
Do you ever use your own real fears when crafting adventures or characters?
Agreed. One of the easiest way to spin a genuine feeling of horror, is to reach to the experiences that evoke fear within us. Body horror freaks the shit out of me...so naturally, it's my favourite device to use when running horror games. All Hail The New Flesh is a rather common rallying cry among my villains.
While I don't have a phobia, I have a very strong fear of the darkness - if locked in a dark room, I will not lose control, but I'm going to panic a bit. So darkness and claustrophobic spaces, feature heavily in my games.
Finally, I'm a rather neat person, and absolutely hate any sort of dirt, ichor, and general stickiness...so naturally, those dark, claustrophobic spaces, are filled with the slime dripping from the mouth of a monstrosity that turns out to be an inhumane fusion of metal and man, descending from a ceiling in order to capture another prey.
Quote from: Cave Bear;944439Now, how do I put this fear to use? It could be used in a Call of Cthulhu or All Flesh Must Be Eaten game where the populace is being transformed by a mimetic virus. Stephen King wrote a book called Cell along those lines, and I believe there's a story by another author (I haven't read yet) where the English language itself is a carrier for mimetic disease.
The movies Pontypool (2008) and The Signal (2007) are good depictions of that sort of contagion.
Quote from: Cave Bear;944439Would H.P. Lovecraft's stories have the same impact, the same cosmic dread, if not for the author's own phobias, anxieties, and prejudices?
I don't think so.
Quote from: Cave Bear;944439Any other ideas?
Uzimaki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzumaki)
Threshold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_(TV_series))
Snow Crash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash)
Quote from: Cave Bear;944439Do you ever use your own real fears when crafting adventures or characters?
You have no idea.
Geoff Ryman's Air (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_(novel)) may be of interest. Also a great critique of the way dictators, corporations and mobs can use social media is in The Net Delusion. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/06/books/review/Siegel-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)
I agree with all the techniques mentioned. It helps to read horror-fantasy short-stories (Pit & The Pendulum, Lovecraft, and other weirder stuff) to get a context of how literary horror-fantasy was approached. Oh, over in the "Evoking a genuine sense of 'horror' alongside 'fantasy'" thread I posted a link to one of the Earthdawn preview stories from the 90s which I have updated to make sense with the 4th edition game-world. It's seriously one of the creepiest fantasy short storeis I've read, and definitely deserves more eyes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.2nj50j2um1z3
A sense of isolation magnifies horror significantly. Try adding that . . . easier to do in 1920s than present.
Quote from: Vic99;944661A sense of isolation magnifies horror significantly. Try adding that . . . easier to do in 1920s than present.
I'd argue it's even easier to do in the present.
Ride the bus or go to a coffee shop and you'll see everyone with their nose stuck in a mobile device. Our social interactions are mediated by electronics.
Sever the internet connection or cut the power, and watch people flip their shit. They can't handle it.
Yes... but I'd add that one doesn't need to identify particular personal fears if one can develop empathy for fears everyone has, and then relate experiences authentically. Then anything that would or could be frightening in reality can be similar in a game. Unless the game mechanics remove the danger in gamey ways..
Hmm, my big fears:
Immortality on planet Earth.
Numbing stasis from obscene level comfort (Stepford Wives desperation).
Camping, or survival in nature for pretty much anything. (Eww, insects & poop.)
Required participation/viewing Sporting Events.
Childcare, esp. Religious Fundamentalist Childcare.
Banal, endless, pop culture topical conversation.
Nope, not getting much to Mythos here. It's sorta already done. Works great for In Nomine with angels and demons having plans for humanity. A veritable hell on Earth is already made. But mythos creepy? Not so much.
I let you all spin out a yarn of Soccer Mom Cthylla or something.
Quote from: Opaopajr;944737Hmm, my big fears:
Immortality on planet Earth.
Numbing stasis from obscene level comfort (Stepford Wives desperation).
Camping, or survival in nature for pretty much anything. (Eww, insects & poop.)
Required participation/viewing Sporting Events.
Childcare, esp. Religious Fundamentalist Childcare.
Banal, endless, pop culture topical conversation.
Nope, not getting much to Mythos here. It's sorta already done. Works great for In Nomine with angels and demons having plans for humanity. A veritable hell on Earth is already made. But mythos creepy? Not so much.
I let you all spin out a yarn of Soccer Mom Cthylla or something.
Hey man, I'd be down for
High Rise meets
Dogma In Nomine.
Quote from: Rincewind1;944759Hey man, I'd be down for High Rise meets Dogma In Nomine.
:D
And if we want true horror we'll try to passionately gossip about Real Housewives in-game.
Quote from: Simlasa;944472The movies Pontypool (2008) and The Signal (2007) are good depictions of that sort of contagion.
There's also "Need to Know" from the 80's Twilight Zone.
[video=youtube;UeWCnW3ZroA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWCnW3ZroA[/youtube]
Quote from: Rincewind1;944759Hey man, I'd be down for High Rise meets Dogma In Nomine.
How can there be no Ballard-inspired sf RPG material? That's what is wrong with the world.
It's always been my practice to ask a game group for a list of subjects that they find particularly traumatizing and leave those as forbidden subjects.
It's a game. It may be a game about the characters getting scared. But messing with your player's real life fears and traumatic subjects stops things from being just a game. It's not fun at all.
It's important to know where to draw the line. Maintain it rock solid.
I'm a veteran of running a great number of horror games using this philosophy. I still managed to spook the players at every turn. And still have them begging for more.
I watched a lot of classic horror movies as a kid. I'm familiar with their flow and their beats. It's something I highly recommend as study if you want to run a horror game.
And remember: It is not how hokey the monsters or effects appear by modern standards. It's the process of cultivating an atmosphere of fear that you need to watch for. Those old movies relied primarily on creating an atmosphere of fear more than anything else carry them through.
Once you have mastered the creation of an atmosphere of fear. The rest of the elements of a horror game pretty much fall into place by themselves.
Having everyone on the same page seems like common sense but was often not done in the past. Hence why there were so many frustrating sessions as a teen.
Quote from: Voros;948334Having everyone on the same page seems like common sense but was often not done in the past. Hence why there were so many frustrating sessions as a teen.
Nobody ever walked away from any of my horror games traumatized. Or even slightly uncomfortable.
I had one player shred me up one side and down the other for bringing the fear to his character anytime when he isolated and vulnerable. But he also said he had blast. And couldn't wait for the next session.
But even at the beginning of that game I told the players something straight out. "Killing your characters ends the fun. Why on earth would I want to do that? It's more fun to keep them alive and give them a constant stream of frightening near misses to amp up the atmosphere before we reach the session's climax."
I only played CoC which never went into any truly disturbing areas in our play. I experienced more creepy rapey stuff in D&D than in any horror session, ironically.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327It's always been my practice to ask a game group for a list of subjects that they find particularly traumatizing and leave those as forbidden subjects.
That's my checklist for the game.
My long time players love to let me know personal stuff about the other players on the sly, just so I can use it in-game to freak them the fuck out. But I've learned, the fun part isn't inflicting THAT phobia on THAT players, but using it against another PC or even NPC while I have THAT player's full attention.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327But messing with your player's real life fears and traumatic subjects stops things from being just a game. It's not fun at all.
That's not true.
People pay to see horror movies that 100% checkbox their real life fears. The creepiest Halloween events are the ones with the most expensive tickets that sell out the fastest, and people every year are looking for more immersive haunted houses, jump scares, and uber creep outs.
Freak the fuck out of your players. Why? That's why they are playing a horror RPG.
It's not rocket science.
If your players show up for heroic space opera, give them heroic space opera!
If your players show up for grimdark fantasy murderhobo, give them that!
But if they show up for a horror fest, give it to them with both barrels and butt tentacle.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327It's important to know where to draw the line.
Yes, and use it as a goal post for rushing past. Steamroll down the line to crazy town.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327It's the process of cultivating an atmosphere of fear that you need to watch for. Those old movies relied primarily on creating an atmosphere of fear more than anything else carry them through.
Absolutely.
The atmosphere of fear is key. And that's all about willing suspension of disbelief and there are many things you can do to help players achieve that suspension.
There are many excellent old horror movies, but there are many modern films that do a good job in this regard as well. I was impressed by last year's 10 Cloverfield Lane' use of phobias, uncertainty of anyone's motives, and the constant question of whether the people within were trapped or being protected. The Others from 2001 is a superb creepout film, that plays wonderfully with the audience's misconceptions.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948341I had one player shred me up one side and down the other for bringing the fear to his character anytime when he isolated and vulnerable. But he also said he had blast. And couldn't wait for the next session.
It sounds like you triggered their trauma and made them uncomfortable...and that made the player happy.
People who like their ass smacked during sex still feel the sting of the slap, but in THAT context, that pain is pleasurable to them.
Human brains are weird.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948341But even at the beginning of that game I told the players something straight out. "Killing your characters ends the fun. Why on earth would I want to do that? It's more fun to keep them alive and give them a constant stream of frightening near misses to amp up the atmosphere before we reach the session's climax."
But that's a railroad. If the players know the GM is pulling punches and navigating the game to a pre-chosen climax, then their choices don't matter. However, I fully acknowledge that railroad game play is very popular, and even preferred by some players.
Quote from: Voros;948346I only played CoC which never went into any truly disturbing areas in our play. I experienced more creepy rapey stuff in D&D than in any horror session, ironically.
Because too often in D&D, the Alignments don't matter unless the DM forces the issue. And if you don't have a GM willing to force the issue. Then you are out of luck.
My own experiences with D&D gave me three impressions.
One: That I don't like the old classic D&D formula one little bit.
Two: That to make things work at all with D&D, it needs a DM with an absolutely iron hand to make it work at all.
Three: That most players i have encountered will turn their characters into absolute sociopaths. And seem to expect to kill their way through any setting. Regardless of of their character's claimed alignment.
I consider that there needs to be a pact towards co-op play at a table. I prefer heroic or swashbuckling fun not murderhobo sprees as they start to feel one dimensional and monotonous.
Back when we were playing in our late teens none of those ground rules were in place so while that was what the majority were shooting for we did have one rather odd fellow who obviously had a different idea. He was a drow wizard who wore black and was taciurn and mysterious, I know you've never heard of it before have you? He was the one who acted rapey and creeped out the rest of the table.
Quote from: Spinachcat;948360But that's a railroad. If the players know the GM is pulling punches and navigating the game to a pre-chosen climax, then their choices don't matter. However, I fully acknowledge that railroad game play is very popular, and even preferred by some players.
It can't be a railroad when the destination is not fixed. And as a GM, it is my job to make sure the players enjoy the ride. And not just rush to the final outcome.
I usually keep my outcomes nebulous. I usually have a general idea of what I want the climax to entail. But all along the way, the character's actions shape the actual expression of it. I play off the players as much as they play off me. I do not meticulously plan everything in my horror games out. Simply because by nature, players are unpredictable. And you never will know what direction they will take you. So you have to adapt. And that's what I do. Adapt my ideas along the way.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948365Three: That most players i have encountered will turn their characters into absolute sociopaths. And seem to expect to kill their way through any setting. Regardless of of their character's claimed alignment.
With lots of goofball players, if you replace "orc chief and goblins" with "mother and children" as the holders of loot, you'll get the same results. Hacky hacky screamy screamy. But that sort of player is going to behave that way no matter what.
For fear and horror to work, it does require the buy-in of everyone there. I have to let myself be scared in a movie or haunted house, since I know it's not real. But since I
want to feel that, I will go with it. Same thing at the tabletop. We've had some genuinely creepy and suspenseful CoC games (and WFRP 1e games, for that matter) because I set the tone and expectations, and everyone wanted to go along for the ride.
Invariably, one guy (always the same guy) gets uncomfortable and tries to crack a terrible joke to break the mood, but that's how it goes.
Quote from: darthfozzywig;948370Invariably, one guy (always the same guy) gets uncomfortable and tries to crack a terrible joke to break the mood, but that's how it goes.
In my prior groups. It was more often than not. Someone repeating lines from Monty Python. That would kill any serious mood.
The games I've run where my players have felt genuinely scared/creeped-out have mostly been D&D games. I've run a lot of Call of Cthulhu too, but I think the players are expecting it to be scary, and so they themselves are not really 'scared' on behalf of their characters.
Quote from: RPGPundit;949660The games I've run where my players have felt genuinely scared/creeped-out have mostly been D&D games. I've run a lot of Call of Cthulhu too, but I think the players are expecting it to be scary, and so they themselves are not really 'scared' on behalf of their characters.
The issue I have with Call Of Cthulhu is the Mythos. So many people know the Mythos that when you use one of the critters, they lose their sense of mystery.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;949680The issue I have with Call Of Cthulhu is the Mythos. So many people know the Mythos that when you use one of the critters, they lose their sense of mystery.
But when you use the underlying themes without the obligatory gribblies (the obligribbities?) the result can be brilliant. Just look at the first season of True Detective.
I would say that among my players, horror is regarded as my specialty.
After about 20 years of running Mythos-esque games, I'm currently of the opinion that 75% of an effective session is the right background music.
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;949680The issue I have with Call Of Cthulhu is the Mythos. So many people know the Mythos that when you use one of the critters, they lose their sense of mystery.
This I agree with. I will generally only use Mythos beings in fun one-offs. For campaigns, I prefer to come up with my own Mythos, and just occasionally drop in obscure references to the other stuff.
Quote from: Cave Bear;949760But when you use the underlying themes without the obligatory gribblies (the obligribbities?) the result can be brilliant. Just look at the first season of True Detective.
I really loved that first season. Never saw the second, but I heard it dropped the ball.
Quote from: Tristram Evans;949766I really loved that first season. Never saw the second, but I heard it dropped the ball.
I'd say it did not - it's different. First one was very psychological and Lovecraftian as well as strongly influenced by Seven, the second is a more classic noir political story, with a few gritty shootouts. It's a bit worse, because definitely scenario stretches under the weight of 4 protagonists, but I'd give it a solid 8 out of 10. It's just that the first one was either a solid 9 or even a 10 that makes the second season appear so much poorer, while I'd say that if it was a new standalone series, it'd be received well. Also, a lot of people are noticeably biased because apparently Colin Farrell is the worst thing in acting since Birdemic, or so they say at least. I found his delivery as a beaten-by-life corrupt cop trying to find a measure of redemption believable and noiric.
Quote from: Rincewind1;949768I'd say it did not - it's different. First one was very psychological and Lovecraftian as well as strongly influenced by Seven, the second is a more classic noir political story. It's a bit worse, because definitely scenario stretches under the weight of 4 protagonists, but I'd give it a solid 8 out of 10. It's just that the first one was either a solid 9 or even a 10 that makes the second season appear so much poorer, while I'd say that if it was a new standalone series, it'd be received well.
With Season Two I got the feeling that they started out still going with "The Occult History of the US Transportation System" and then somewhere in there decided to ditch the paranormal aspect, but didn't rewrite, edit and reshoot for the new focus. With that many main characters, and that detailed a plot, 8 episodes was way too little time to cover that story.
Quote from: CRKrueger;949771With Season Two I got the feeling that they started out still going with "The Occult History of the US Transportation System" and then somewhere in there decided to ditch the paranormal aspect, but didn't rewrite, edit and reshoot for the new focus. With that many main characters, and that detailed a plot, 8 episodes was way too little time to cover that story.
Indeed - the plot definitely stretches to the point of collapse under weight of too many protagonists, too little time. The Mad Max is the least developed character, which is a shame because his storyline definitely had much more potential than Lifestyle drama we received. None the less - as long as you watch it with the same idea that the director had, that it's a new noir storyline, not a continuation of season 1, it's in my opinion a solid viewing. I myself like Colin Farrell too, so it was a plus for me as well (as a leftist degenerate, I might as well provide actual proof of my degeneracy).
As for the Cthulhu mythos - I actually would recommend toying with alternative approach. Embrace the Mythos and shout it right from the beginning in player's face, then spin your own story using it. One of the most fun, scary and effective campaigns was when I was playing Bookhounds of London, and the PCs were hired by Mr Wilde, the Repairer of Reputations, to deliver a copy of King in Yellow to the scenario writer of the new upcoming Hollywood flick. Of course, after one of the PCs, inspired by their cocaine addiction, decided to read the book, all hell broke loose as they finished Act III on the walls of their apartment in their own blood. There were also 2 different secret societies trying to get their hands on the book, and a really creepy Adams Family style noble, who was a superior of one of the PCs in their secret society, who ultimately provided the book in return for Cthulhu statue owed by a dockside Cockney gang.
Funnily enough, over the course of the campaign, apart from Mythos scenes, I think the one that scared the players the most was one where the Gray twins (a pun on the famous Kray Twins) were torturing a man who owed them money as a lesson for the PCs to confess to stealing the statue from them. I'd not say I quite unleashed my inner Poison'd player there, but it was pretty gory.
Also, remember - nothing in Lovecraftian Mythos is exactly set in stone, all the informations we have is second-handed. I myself always assumed that the creature met in Call of Cthulhu was not the Great Cthulhu himself, but rather, a "mere" Star-Spawn. Helps to distance a bit from the Godzilla Effect I fear Lovecraftian Mythos suffer nowadays in popculture and therefore, player's conceptions of them.
Of course, if you do use Cthulhu, you are asking for Yum Yum jokes.
I never thought the two seasons would necessarily have anything to do with each other, or even necessarily be in a shared universe, just that they would have a Dark/Pulp/Noir/Weird aspect as the "True Detective" title implies. The season reminds me of Mullholland Drive. No matter how well-crafted, you could tell Lynch started with one thing, and managed to salvage it into another.
It would be one thing if the quasi-occult elements got dismissed as just weird shit as opposed to developed, but they were really just dropped.
I guess they're talking about 3 kinda sorta, and Matt says he'll play Rust again, but I think they might do better to just come up with a new storyline, keep it more tightly focused, and I think season 1 benefitted from a single director.
I still enjoyed season 2.
But, to tie this back in to the thread, there are lots of cop shows where they come across some really weird, fucked up occult shit. The brilliance of Season One was to make us believe that there could be something to it without actually showing us anything that couldn't be explained. That's what the Lovecraft name drop was for...buy-in.
In Season Two, they again started flirting with the occult, but that hint of supernatural fear wasn't kept alive. Really, there's nothing there we haven't seen in weirder episodes of Cop Show X, the name drop that was raising that element at all, was that it was True Detective, but that wasn't enough.
When flirting with the supernatural for the purposes of instilling fear, without making it overt, you have to establish suspension of disbelief or even just reasonable doubt that there is a rational explanation for this.
The decision to drop the occult element came too late, as a result, instead of not being there, it was just kind of dead weight. All those beautifully done, long, slow shots of freeway designs, marking the landscape like mystic runes...no point anymore.
Quote from: CRKrueger;949777I never thought the two seasons would necessarily have anything to do with each other, or even necessarily be in a shared universe, just that they would have a Dark/Pulp/Noir/Weird aspect as the "True Detective" title implies. The season reminds me of Mullholland Drive. No matter how well-crafted, you could tell Lynch started with one thing, and managed to salvage it into another.
It would be one thing if the quasi-occult elements got dismissed as just weird shit as opposed to developed, but they were really just dropped.
I guess they're talking about 3 kinda sorta, and Matt says he'll play Rust again, but I think they might do better to just come up with a new storyline, keep it more tightly focused, and I think season 1 benefitted from a single director.
I still enjoyed season 2.
What quasi-occult elements you mean? I am curious, because it appears as if I have seen the series from a completely different perspective - I assume you mean stuff like burned out eyes, the figurines, weird masks, orgies, etc etc? A good point actually - I myself put all this stuff all off on the "Hollywood decadency" vibe, rather than occult, a wink to the classic tropes of Chandler.
I'm sure my preconceptions had something to do with it.
I had read where the writer said the season was going to be about "Bad men, hard women and the secret occult history of the U.S. transportation system."
I missed the part where they later said it was going to be about bad men and hard women and they were dropping the secret occult history of the U.S. transportation system.
So when it started, there was a lot that fit in with Decadent Hollywood Noir and also fit with an Occult angle. Then, the Occult angle just never went anywhere or did anything, even to the point that the cops involved didn't even really consider there was an Occult angle, like Rust and Marty (or really anyone) would have. The notion was almost conspicuous by its absence.
Quote from: Tristram Evans;949765This I agree with. I will generally only use Mythos beings in fun one-offs. For campaigns, I prefer to come up with my own Mythos, and just occasionally drop in obscure references to the other stuff.
The problem can also appear if you use more conventional movie monsters. Like vampires and werewolves.
People have seen so many interations of them. That a GM has to be really careful to make encounters with them unique and memorable.
The moment you have a player go: "Oh it's just a ______." You lose your audience and pretty much the whole of the atmosphere.
One of my most effective Call of Cthulhu games actually featured a fight between a vampire and a werewolf.