Having everyone on the same page seems like common sense but was often not done in the past. Hence why there were so many frustrating sessions as a teen.

Quote from: Voros;948334Having everyone on the same page seems like common sense but was often not done in the past. Hence why there were so many frustrating sessions as a teen.

Nobody ever walked away from any of my horror games traumatized. Or even slightly uncomfortable.

I had one player shred me up one side and down the other for bringing the fear to his character anytime when he isolated and vulnerable. But he also said he had blast. And couldn't wait for the next session.

But even at the beginning of that game I told the players something straight out. "Killing your characters ends the fun. Why on earth would I want to do that? It's more fun to keep them alive and give them a constant stream of frightening near misses to amp up the atmosphere before we reach the session's climax."

I only played CoC which never went into any truly disturbing areas in our play. I experienced more creepy rapey stuff in D&D than in any horror session, ironically.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327It's always been my practice to ask a game group for a list of subjects that they find particularly traumatizing and leave those as forbidden subjects.

That's my checklist for the game.

My long time players love to let me know personal stuff about the other players on the sly, just so I can use it in-game to freak them the fuck out. But I've learned, the fun part isn't inflicting THAT phobia on THAT players, but using it against another PC or even NPC while I have THAT player's full attention.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327But messing with your player's real life fears and traumatic subjects stops things from being just a game. It's not fun at all.

That's not true.

People pay to see horror movies that 100% checkbox their real life fears. The creepiest Halloween events are the ones with the most expensive tickets that sell out the fastest, and people every year are looking for more immersive haunted houses, jump scares, and uber creep outs.

Freak the fuck out of your players. Why? That's why they are playing a horror RPG.

It's not rocket science.

If your players show up for heroic space opera, give them heroic space opera!
If your players show up for grimdark fantasy murderhobo, give them that!

But if they show up for a horror fest, give it to them with both barrels and butt tentacle.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327It's important to know where to draw the line.

Yes, and use it as a goal post for rushing past. Steamroll down the line to crazy town.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948327It's the process of cultivating an atmosphere of fear that you need to watch for. Those old movies relied primarily on creating an atmosphere of fear more than anything else carry them through.

Absolutely.

The atmosphere of fear is key. And that's all about willing suspension of disbelief and there are many things you can do to help players achieve that suspension.

There are many excellent old horror movies, but there are many modern films that do a good job in this regard as well. I was impressed by last year's 10 Cloverfield Lane' use of phobias, uncertainty of anyone's motives, and the constant question of whether the people within were trapped or being protected.  The Others from 2001 is a superb creepout film, that plays wonderfully with the audience's misconceptions.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948341I had one player shred me up one side and down the other for bringing the fear to his character anytime when he isolated and vulnerable. But he also said he had blast. And couldn't wait for the next session.

It sounds like you triggered their trauma and made them uncomfortable...and that made the player happy.

People who like their ass smacked during sex still feel the sting of the slap, but in THAT context, that pain is pleasurable to them.

Human brains are weird.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948341But even at the beginning of that game I told the players something straight out. "Killing your characters ends the fun. Why on earth would I want to do that? It's more fun to keep them alive and give them a constant stream of frightening near misses to amp up the atmosphere before we reach the session's climax."

But that's a railroad. If the players know the GM is pulling punches and navigating the game to a pre-chosen climax, then their choices don't matter. However, I fully acknowledge that railroad game play is very popular, and even preferred by some players.

Quote from: Voros;948346I only played CoC which never went into any truly disturbing areas in our play. I experienced more creepy rapey stuff in D&D than in any horror session, ironically.

Because too often in D&D, the Alignments don't matter unless the DM forces the issue. And if you don't have a GM willing to force the issue. Then you are out of luck.

My own experiences with D&D gave me three impressions.

One: That I don't like the old classic D&D formula one little bit.

Two: That to make things work at all with D&D, it needs a DM with an absolutely iron hand to make it work at all.

Three: That most players i have encountered will turn their characters into absolute sociopaths. And seem to expect to kill their way through any setting. Regardless of  of their character's claimed alignment.

I consider that there needs to be a pact towards co-op play at a table. I prefer heroic or swashbuckling fun not murderhobo sprees as they start to feel one dimensional and monotonous.

Back when we were playing in our late teens none of those ground rules were in place so while that was what the majority were shooting for we did have one rather odd fellow who obviously had a different idea. He was a drow wizard who wore black and was taciurn and mysterious, I know you've never heard of it before have you? He was the one who acted rapey and creeped out the rest of the table.

Quote from: Spinachcat;948360But that's a railroad. If the players know the GM is pulling punches and navigating the game to a pre-chosen climax, then their choices don't matter. However, I fully acknowledge that railroad game play is very popular, and even preferred by some players.

It can't be a railroad when the destination is not fixed. And as a GM, it is my job to make sure the players enjoy the ride. And not just rush to the final outcome.

I usually keep my outcomes nebulous. I usually have a general idea of what I want the climax to entail. But all along the way, the character's actions shape the actual expression of it. I play off the players as much as they play off me. I do not meticulously plan everything in my horror games out. Simply because by nature, players are unpredictable. And you never will know what direction they will take you. So you have to adapt. And that's what I do. Adapt my ideas along the way.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;948365Three: That most players i have encountered will turn their characters into absolute sociopaths. And seem to expect to kill their way through any setting. Regardless of  of their character's claimed alignment.

With lots of goofball players, if you replace "orc chief and goblins" with "mother and children" as the holders of loot, you'll get the same results. Hacky hacky screamy screamy. But that sort of player is going to behave that way no matter what.

For fear and horror to work, it does require the buy-in of everyone there. I have to let myself be scared in a movie or haunted house, since I know it's not real. But since I want to feel that, I will go with it. Same thing at the tabletop. We've had some genuinely creepy and suspenseful CoC games (and WFRP 1e games, for that matter) because I set the tone and expectations, and everyone wanted to go along for the ride.

Invariably, one guy (always the same guy) gets uncomfortable and tries to crack a terrible joke to break the mood, but that's how it goes.

Quote from: darthfozzywig;948370Invariably, one guy (always the same guy) gets uncomfortable and tries to crack a terrible joke to break the mood, but that's how it goes.

In my prior groups. It was more often than not. Someone repeating lines from Monty Python. That would kill any serious mood.

The games I've run where my players have felt genuinely scared/creeped-out have mostly been D&D games. I've run a lot of Call of Cthulhu too, but I think the players are expecting it to be scary, and so they themselves are not really 'scared' on behalf of their characters.

Quote from: RPGPundit;949660The games I've run where my players have felt genuinely scared/creeped-out have mostly been D&D games. I've run a lot of Call of Cthulhu too, but I think the players are expecting it to be scary, and so they themselves are not really 'scared' on behalf of their characters.

The issue I have with Call Of Cthulhu is the Mythos. So many people know the Mythos that when you use one of the critters, they lose their sense of mystery.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;949680The issue I have with Call Of Cthulhu is the Mythos. So many people know the Mythos that when you use one of the critters, they lose their sense of mystery.

But when you use the underlying themes without the obligatory gribblies (the obligribbities?) the result can be brilliant. Just look at the first season of True Detective.

I would say that among my players, horror is regarded as my specialty.

After about 20 years of running Mythos-esque games, I'm currently of the opinion that 75% of an effective session is the right background music.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;949680The issue I have with Call Of Cthulhu is the Mythos. So many people know the Mythos that when you use one of the critters, they lose their sense of mystery.

This I agree with. I will generally only use Mythos beings in fun one-offs. For campaigns, I prefer to come up with my own Mythos, and just occasionally drop in obscure references to the other stuff.

Quote from: Cave Bear;949760But when you use the underlying themes without the obligatory gribblies (the obligribbities?) the result can be brilliant. Just look at the first season of True Detective.

I really loved that first season. Never saw the second, but I heard it dropped the ball.