Quote from: Intergalactic Threat;851928Nothing I have said is incoherent, prove otherwise.

Again, name one thing that i've said that isn't coherent. If you can't understand or don't like it, that's your problem.

How about this response when asked what country you are from?

Quote from: Intergalactic ThreatI'm from the United Kingdom States of Great Britainstralianada, specifically England Sector.

So, fuck off back to whatever basement you came from.

Quote from: jeff37923;851942How about this response when asked what country you are from?



So, fuck off back to whatever basement you came from.

How about you read the fucking response you quoted: specifically England sector.

How is that not clear? Know many places called England do you?

Quote from: Spike;851931You, in post 53 of this thread.


You, at the start of your latest wave of empty shit posts.

And what is mendacious about what you quoted?

Quote from: MrHurst;851519I'd guess the system would put you off the game myself, but they have a free version to check out floating around somewhere.

I've played the game and generally like the system. It's trying to depict some complex concepts at times so I'm fine with a bit of crunch.

QuoteMe, I like knowing I own my own body. Kinda a core political issue to me. I'm not nearly so far left as to see communism to the point of bodies being community property being a good thing.

In-game that stuff just adds to the horror... the games of EP I've played were creepy mindfucks and I enjoyed them. I didn't see the indentured servitude being presented as a 'good' thing... just a fact of the setting.

Quote from: MrHurst;851519I'd guess the system would put you off the game myself, but they have a free version to check out floating around somewhere. I did, and the preferred politics where some creepy shit. Me, I like knowing I own my own body. Kinda a core political issue to me. I'm not nearly so far left as to see communism to the point of bodies being community property being a good thing.

Justifiers, another transhuman themed RPG, had a similar premise of the PCs being owned by the corps, working towards buying off their indenture.

d20 GW was worse though, which isnt surprising as it was a White Wolf product.

Quote from: Intergalactic Threat;851946And what is mendacious about what you quoted?

Aside from your utter lack of reading comprehension: you stated that you did not bring the topic of MRAs into the thread, whereas I demonstrated that in fact, you did.

Thus, you are a liar.

Now fuck off

And ... back to topic.

To Intergalactic Threat: I don't know Eclipse Phase personally. Let's just agree to disagree about wether the content is too left-leaning or not. Just give us your opinion about which game you like best or else leave it be.

Quote from: Spike;851988Aside from your utter lack of reading comprehension: you stated that you did not bring the topic of MRAs into the thread, whereas I demonstrated that in fact, you did.

Thus, you are a liar.

Now fuck off

Except I didn't as even the most cursory glance will tell you, you lazy minded twat.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;851996And ... back to topic.

To Intergalactic Threat: I don't know Eclipse Phase personally. Let's just agree to disagree about wether the content is too left-leaning or not. Just give us your opinion about which game you like best or else leave it be.

Well, let's not agree to just disagree because this is about an assertion that the people who wrote the game are trying to push an agenda, moreover that this agenda is somehow 'bad'. This seems to derive from the fact they booted out some troublemakers from their forum who were joined by a bunch of sympathetic idiots who flounced off because...oppression of MEN!

I find the idea that an RPG setting can be this dangerous to be quite insidious. Ecliupse phase, as i've said, contains a myriad of different and independent cultures, from the fascist to the anarchist, as well as capitalist and socialist. To infer from this that the publishers are pushing a negative agenda (that women should have rights! Oh the horror!) is bizarre and totally unproductive. So for that reason I can't agree to disagree. If you don't like the setting, that's entirely fine. But if one wants to portray it as the result of an ideological conspiracy they are going to need to prove that, and if true, prove why that ideology should be rejected. Claims from whiny cowards who hide their own nastiness behind the banner of MRA won't cut it.

EP is the only transhuman game I am familiar with.

OK, I've got Intergalactic Threat on Ignore, but I bet he wasn't reasonable to jan paparazzi and did not give his opinion on the game and instead gave some kind of anti-MRA pro-liberal politics screed.

Am I right?

On the off-chance you're not simply trolling...

Quote from: Intergalactic Threat;852012I find the idea that an RPG setting can be this dangerous to be quite insidious. Ecliupse phase, as i've said, contains a myriad of different and independent cultures, from the fascist to the anarchist, as well as capitalist and socialist. To infer from this that the publishers are pushing a negative agenda (that women should have rights! Oh the horror!) is bizarre and totally unproductive. So for that reason I can't agree to disagree.

So you've got no problems with Tournament of Rapists, right?

What about "brilliant" stuff like FATAL and RAHoWa?

Quote from: Luca;852015On the off-chance you're not simply trolling...




So you've got no problems with Tournament of Rapists, right?

What about "brilliant" stuff like FATAL and RAHoWa?

Are you asking me what I think, or are you telling me?

Quote from: Intergalactic Threat;852018Are you asking me what I think, or are you telling me?

There are question marks, so those are questions. You just stated that someone publishing an RPG where "x" happens can't be automatically seen as the author endorsing "x", and in fact such an assumption is insidious to make. So I was wondering if this applies to everything or just one side of the political spectrum, and/or if you draw a line and where that line is.

Quote from: Intergalactic Threat;851930I wasn't referring to the fan community. I simply asserted that the setting of the game features a variety of different communities, all with their own politics. The existence of so many different and differing communities is one of its defining features.

It doesn't make sense to me that a setting might include states with dodgy politics and that's a reason for some to reject the game. I don't agree with feudalism and monarchies. In fact the politics of Game of Thrones are thoroughly repugnant, does that mean I shouldn't be interested in it?

First of all, I'm not claiming the game's politics are "dangerous" or "insidious" —  I believe in free speech — and to be frank, I'm not sure anyone else's making this point.

Second, I don't think anyone's making a point about the fictional polities themselves, but rather how the authorial voice, under the veneer of an in-game narrator, presents them; frankly unsympathetic to some (hypercorps, Jovian Republic), giving others a wide berth (Autonomists, Brinkers, Scum) and fairly sympathetic to others (Barsoomians, Titanians).

Some worldbuilding decisions, such as the Jovian Republic renaming Jupiter's satellites after cabinet members of the Dubya administration, cross frankly into satire.

Coupled with the positions the game's authors have demonstrated on Internet fora for some time now (well before the recent debacle), I think there are reasonable grounds to infer that their own political positions have definitely colored their presentation of Eclipse Phase's fictional universe.

Nevertheless, credit where credit is due: as you've mentioned, there's a good enough variety of polities, and a dangerous enough universe, that it's not too difficult to treat the presentation as the biased opinions of a fictional character, and play a loyal hypercorp employee or God-fearing Jovian who joins Firewall and works with other agents from cery different polities the better to fight Exsurgent breakouts and other X-risks.

Which, incidentally, is the point fellowhoodlum and I were making.

Quote from: Intergalactic Threat;851930When people then argue to change the setting because of the existence of political structures they personally don't like I think they are massively missing the point. Would you change the setting of Star Wars because the Empire was an oppressive liberty crushing monarchy?

Like I've mentioned above, it's not so much about "changing the setting" as it is about exploring it from different points of view. I've played a hell of a lot of games where PCs aren't necessarily good people or belong to wholesome organizations (VtM's Sabbat, anyone?), and I don't think there's a moral obligation to play the good guys every time.

I just wouldn't be caught dead playing certain particularly vile bad guys, like a rapist or a non-repentant Nazi. Some things I just won't go into.

Quote from: Luca;852030There are question marks, so those are questions. You just stated that someone publishing an RPG where "x" happens can't be automatically seen as the author endorsing "x", and in fact such an assumption is insidious to make. So I was wondering if this applies to everything or just one side of the political spectrum, and/or if you draw a line and where that line is.

Perhaps world your 'questions' a little less stridently so that the 'question' doesn't come across as an assumption of my position.

And, given the politics i've espoused thus far, asking me if I endorse something called 'Tournament of Rapists' (which I couldn't look up because DTRPG requires me to log in and change my filters which I suspect would be an endeavour not worthy of the outcome) is a pretty stupid place to start. If you honestly think there's any doubt whether I don't endorse 'Tournmanent of the - I can't even believe I'm typing such a phrase -Rapists' then really there's no point pursuing any kind of sensible discussion.

So, no, I do not support it. I don't even know what it is. I don't want to know what it is. There is, I suppose, a chance it could turn out to be something deeply clever, but I'm happy to remain ignorant.

I have no idea what the other two games are, nor do I care. Given that you've namechecked them along with Tournament of the rapists I'm guessing they are equally as ridiculous. So no I won't be wasting my time looking them up. If what you're really asking me is "do you like rape" then of course I fucking don't, what the fuck is wrong with you is my answer.