I'm sure we've covered this now and again, but I just got done with a writeup of a few space and sci-fi RPGs I recommend over at my blog (http://www.rpgblog2.com/2013/03/rpgs-i-recommend-space-and-sci-fi.html) (Traveller, StarCluster 3, HardNova ][, and Stars Without Number).
With that in mind, which space and sci-fi RPGs have worked best for you and your groups over the years, and what particularly did you or your groups like about them?
Quote from: Zachary The First;633657With that in mind, which space and sci-fi RPGs have worked best for you and your groups over the years, and what particularly did you or your groups like about them?
I've run pretty much nothing but my own game for sf since 2008, though we played with
Mongoose Traveller,
Starcluster 3, and
3:16 as well. I often go back to my roots with classic
Traveller and
Striker for ideas.
WEG Star Wars probably. Breaks down after a while because with high Skills there's little you can't do, plus it removed Stormtroopers as a threat. Still, there was a lot of exploding Imperial stuff to get through before then.
Starships and Spacemen would be a good generic sci fi game if hacked a little to remove all trace of Star Trek. Or perhaps use as is with the premise that the Federation has fallen into silence - Warp Speed is limited, communications are down and you're out there, alone. Every man, woman, pointy eared Vulcan-a-like for themselves. Those nutty Zangid/Videni are out there still mind.
Wanted to play Buck Rogers XXVC but my group had splintered by the time it came out, plus I was interested in other stuff. The computer games were great, good skill system, great fluff. Think Star Wars in a Solar System.
We tried Traveller, it was ok. Not enough exploding things for our group at the time and isn't combat lethal? Can't remember its been a while. Hell, character creation was lethal too, if I recall.
Star Frontiers
Simple system, fun aliens, interesting adventures and alien world (Volturnus!) While its system isn't new and wondrous it is a solid game and gives me a lot of good memories. My groups loved the spaceship combat and we had a blast exploring the worlds.
Starcluster 3
Its just such an awesome toolkit game. It needs a better layout, but the plug and play systems make it very functional and the cluster system and Bailey-Wolfe index materials are awesome.
Mongoose Traveller
Simple, functional version of Traveller, a great game and packed with fun things
Stars without Number
Much like Starcluster this game is awesome in so many ways. I've yet to play it but its a fun read.
Justifiers
Uplifted animals and planetary exploration via transmat drive, hard worlds and hard characters doing what they can to pay off their very existance.
Hellas
Just so fun, epic space opera and ancient greek myth feel. Can't go wrong there.
I'm a huge fan of SF, so it depends a lot on my mood which one is on the top at a given time.
Derelict Delvers will be there when its done and I'm hoping Hulks and Horrors!
I like Bulldogs! a lot. I think it's got one of the best, most colourful set of alien races available to player characters ( it's got urseminites (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034531507/bulldogs-sci-fi-that-kicks-ass/posts/82978) need I say more?) and it's a nicely slimmed down implementation of Fate. The loose,largely implied setting very much nails the soft-sci-fi tone of Ice Pirates or Titan AE.
Historically I've been wedded to WEG Star Wars D6. I'm not even that big a Star Wars fan, but combination of the beautifully intuitive D6 rules with one such a well known licence make it the most accessible game ever made.
I loved 2000AD from when I was a kid so now for Sci Fi I take a 2000AD idea and run it with Savage Worlds. I did a whole Strontium Dog Mod that runs well but for other stuff, Rogue trooper, Meltdown Man, Street Football, VCs, Bad Company, Sinister and dexter etc you can run it out of the box basically.
So for Rogue Trooper you add the Biochip edge and the Immunity to toxins edge. etc etc
Classic Traveller has been my go-to scifi game.
Stars Without Number may not replace Traveller for me, but both sessions I have run have been great fun and I will run it again.
I got into Mechanoids again and the sessions were cool, but the effort I was putting into making it a Rifts hybrid got switched into work on my own game.
I have enjoyed Dark Heresy and hope to play more.
Deary me, I'm struggling to find any SF games on my shelf. There's my 30 year old copy of Traveller, and then...
GURPS New Sun (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/newsun/). It is SF, honest. I don't think I'd ever find enough players with the patience to read Gene Wolfe in order to play, though. I guess The Chronicles of Future Earth (http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=5164&osCsid=b7n313tovb9etujud527a76b13) would be more accessible.
Not really spaceships games, though.
Traveller is the one I keep coming back to. Classic, Mega, T20 and Mongoose versions have played well with my group. TNE and T4, not so much.
I've had some fun running Bulldogs, though I find I have to tweak the setting to be a bit harder. The races are an unexpectedly colorful and fun part of the game, though. Diaspora seems like a fun FATE variant with a cool setting builder, but I've never got a chance to actually play it. Starblazer Adventures I never got a chance to play either, but I found myself ripping it off for my retro SF homebrew Rocket Corps. SBA is such a bif SF toolkit that seems like it would lend itself well to many games based on properties (like the recently mentioned Last Starfighter, as well as my old favorites like Farscape.
When we are short of players in my normal Friday session, sometimes I'll pull out Danger Patrol, which isn't exactly traditional space opera so much as Buck Rogers meets Lensmen. And it's free; get it here: http://www.dangerpatrol.com/. The thing that's amazing about danger patrol is how it plays out like a nail-biting cliffhanger with the world going to shit around you, but I don't think it's suitable to campaign play.
I had a go at playing traveller in the 80s, which was kinda fun, but the campaign didn't last long and noone else wanted to run it. I would have liked to have given it more of a go though.
I ran Spacemaster 2nd ed in the 90s for several years, which was great fun. Very detailed system, I got all the expansions like star strike for hex based space combat and armored assault for landside combat...
Great times, but I doubt I'd have the energy or time to do that again.
I've played and ran various versions of gammaworld over the years, which is a kind of scifi. Always good for a laugh.
Very recently, like weeks ago I tried out Stars without number. I liked it so much I have ordered the hardback. Great stuff. I got the campaign module, hard light as well, which is worth buying.
sort of oDnD rules in space.
My kids love it too, who I mostly run it for.
I like Traveller, doesn't matter which version, for my sci-fi gaming. Star Wars is also a favorite of mine. I slightly prefer the WEG version; however, I can't find anyone to play it who can make a regular commitment and my fiancée rarely steps out of the d20 system (though she does love d20 Star Wars). Someday, when we can afford $30 for the new Fantasy Flight version, I'd love to try it.
Quote from: APN;633668WEG Star Wars probably. Breaks down after a while because with high Skills there's little you can't do, plus it removed Stormtroopers as a threat. Still, there was a lot of exploding Imperial stuff to get through before then.
I've been thinking that the difficulty system needs to be changed - i.e. by +5 or +10.
Most of my Scifi gaming has revolved around some version of Traveller - Mega, or Mongoose, or d20 (ugh). The lifepath system has typically been a hit with gaming groups.
I've played in one group that extensively used the Blue Planet setting, but not system - and, frankly, it's one of the best Scifi settings I've read. Near-future, soft-cyperpunk - a beautifully detailed, colonized waterworld.
I've got a soft spot in my heart for Jovian Chronicles, though I've never run it or played it. I like pieces of its setting: the colonization of our Sol system; the escalating solar-system-war. And I'm not really an anime-giant-robot fan.
Well, one reason I've put so much time and effort into sf game design is that I'm not really happy with most of them for one reason or another.
I love Traveller at its heart but Classic Traveller's good stuff is spread out between dozens of other books and Mega Traveller is an erratta catastrophe and TNE is interesting but weirdly broken in weird ways, T4 is close to perfect but very unpopular and the places where it's not perfect are very problematic, Mongoose Traveller is functional but goes down the usual path of error in taking away death in character generation which is essential to the balance of the system. I think T5 might fix the character creation issue by making higher stats more likely to decline with aging but when we were playtesting it the system was so hard to follow and interpret that we gave up after three session.
I really loved Mechanoid Invasion book 3 and consider it the finest itteration of the Palladium system. Buck Rogers XXVc is under rated and a very nice hard sf transhuman future. Well except for the telepathic cats on Mercury, of course. As much as it's reviled by the TSR fans for being Flint Dile's baby I think it needed a cartoon show. It would have made a great 80s cartoon.
GURPS Space is technically very nice. I've always felt that the third edition Tech Level effects were overstated, I think that's why I always misremember the weapons being completely unable to penetrate the armor. But GURPS Space also takes almost as much work as designing your own game system.
Star Cluster runs a little too close to my own game in places and a little too far from it in others. To be honest even thinking about it tends to suck the wind out of my sails when it comes to working about Galaxies In Shadow. I think Star Cluster is a solid game that doesn't get enough love but it really deserves a hard cover edition with fantastic art and layout that a kickstarter could give it.
Quote from: Zachary The First;633657With that in mind, which space and sci-fi RPGs have worked best for you and your groups over the years, and what particularly did you or your groups like about them?
HERO, for all the reasons that HERO is awesome to begin with.
It does have a problem with Starships, and in some settings I've had to swap out to a set of home grown rules.
Quote from: gleichman;633764HERO, for all the reasons that HERO is awesome to begin with.
It does have a problem with Starships, and in some settings I've had to swap out to a set of home grown rules.
Brian, have you ever checked our StarCluster? Very robust game and toolkit. Just curious.
Quote from: Zachary The First;633780Brian, have you ever checked our StarCluster? Very robust game and toolkit. Just curious.
I've heard nothing about the system that would appeal to me, but then again almost no one including the author ever talks about system these days. It may as well be a black hole.
Unless it's starship combat system includes robust power allocation, hex-based significant maneuver, non-ablative damage, non-ablative shielding, and the option for single weapon attacks instead of the so boring 'fire everything at everybody mass fire'- I'm not interested.
Loved Star Frontiers, i think the art brought it to life, at the time that is!
Another vote for Hard Nova II, Metamorphosis Alpha and Gamma World as sci-fi worlds if not a different genre, always loved Traveller but found it too dry. Starblazer Adventures was my attempt to put all the good ideas in one place.
Mutant Chronicles will be fun to bring back again too!
Traveller and Metamorphosis Alpha - the originals of both.
I love SF but I have very little SF gaming under my belt. Most of it was WEG (D6) Star Wars (several games including an epic Old Republic campaign, well before the prequels came out), with GURPS Space a distant second. I did play a few sessions of WotC d20 Star Wars (1e) shortly after it came out. And then, for the better part of a decade, nothing.
In the last few years I've been trying to get more SF gaming done. I ran a Mongoose Traveller mini-campaign that got mixed reception with my group. I ran a single Starblazer Adventures game but the system didn't click with me. I've got Stars Without Number and D6 Space in PDF just begging to see serious use, and I've also got Eclipse Phase in print and I'm dying to give it a try.
Another game that I've owned in PDF for some time now, that looks very, very interesting, is Bill Coffin's Septimus. The drama surrounding Eric Gibson's catastrophic mismanagement of WEG made this game stillborn. Nevertheless it's an interesting setting, and a great supplement to a D6 Space game if you want to introduce transhuman elements such as nanotech and genetics.
Nevertheless, I haven't given up on Traveller. I've picked up 2300AD last year, Paul Elliott's Orbital (hard SF, STL Solar System Traveller campaign setting) this year, and I'm looking forward to snagging the Mongoose Traveller: Prime Directive setting book.
As usual, the problem here is having too many games, and too little time to game.
"Sci Fi" is a little too broad a category for me to chose a favourite, so I'll divide it by genre:
For Space Opera my fav is hands down WEG's Star Wars, 1st Edition.
For "realistic" Space Fiction I'd go with classic Traveller.
For straight "science fiction" (the exploration of the affect of a new technology on society, meaning everything from Robocop to Kids in the Hall: Brain Candy), I'd go with my house system, Phaserip, unless I wanted to get all nitty gritty with the science, in which case I'd use GURPs 3rd Edition.
for Space Fantasy I'd use Doctor Who: Adventures in Time & Space
I love me some Star Frontiers. Back in the day, and in more recent times. Perhaps not as shiny as newer games. But we have fun just the same:)
The space RPGs that I like are ones that both emulate the genres very well and are easily adaptable. Traveller (all), WEG d6 Star Wars, LUG Star Trek, Mekton II and Mekton Zeta, Jovian Chronicles, and Cyberpunk 2020 (Near Orbit and Deep Space).
I keep coming back to Traveller and WEG d6 Star Wars as the top two. WEG d6 Star Wars is science fantasy and emulates the Star Wars universe to my satisfaction, Traveller is medium hard science fiction and emulates many of my favorite authors works. They are two different tools for two different genres, each can be pushed into use for the other but it is not a really good fit when done.
A lot depends on what you are looking for in a space RPG.
I've always got a couple of one-shots for HardNova ][ on standby when something SF is required *now*. When it comes around to my next long campaign, I'm leaning towards Hellas, though something EABA is always a possibility.
Quote from: Ronin;633868I love me some Star Frontiers. Back in the day, and in more recent times. Perhaps not as shiny as newer games. But we have fun just the same:)
Had a lot of fun with that one back in the day. Still remember the ads in Marvel comics for the game back in the early 80s. Unfortunately, while living in Texas, the game was ruined for me by a surprisingly racist game group I played with once.
Our group cut our teeth on SpaceMaster but in the end I got some Alternity books and that always worked for us. I grabbed some Starcraft mods for the game and we played that for a long while.
It suited us by being generic enough to cater for whatever whim we were after.
Quote from: Zachary The First;633780Brian, have you ever checked our StarCluster? Very robust game and toolkit. Just curious.
Not a game for Mr. Gleichman, Zachary. Not a game for lots of people. Most aren't looking for the things it does. :D
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;633895Not a game for Mr. Gleichman, Zachary. Not a game for lots of people. Most aren't looking for the things it does. :D
-clash
You know, in making my list, I started thinking about how it's pretty cool how different games can offer such different gaming experiences, yet still be enjoyed by the same group. Neat stuff. :)
Well, I suppose if I was worried about only liking stuff that was super-popular and in at the moment, I'd be on a different message board....or in a different hobby. :)
Quote from: Zachary The First;633899You know, in making my list, I started thinking about how it's pretty cool how different games can offer such different gaming experiences, yet still be enjoyed by the same group. Neat stuff. :)
Well, I suppose if I was worried about only liking stuff that was super-popular and in at the moment, I'd be on a different message board....or in a different hobby. :)
Excellent points!
-clash
Also, I really want to run Space Master 2nd edition one of these days. I've messed around with SpaceMaster: Privateers, but I've heard SM2 was a superior game. I need to grab those pdfs from RPGNow and see what I think. It looks like the print boxed set is fairly expensive, though.
I still think Space Master Privateers gets a bum rap. The biggest problem is the last minute format change from a two box Future Law and Tech Law to a single core book and three Tech Law books. It makes the game an editing and organizational nightmare. The setting is too stripped down in the core to really show any depth at all. They'd have been better salvaging the dozen odd pages spent on fluff fiction with the full skill and talent system and more vehicle stuff and putting in generic furry races.
The problem is that while the races stats fit for the Privateers setting, they're massively over powered relative to the fantasy races. Want a human who makes a high elf look underpowered? The humans from Privateers do. Want a combatant who makes a high elf look slow? A Valiesian or Falaris does that without breaking a sweat. Want to break trolls over your knees like kindling? The Kagoth can.
If they had wanted the setting to be more popular, more of the background from the Future Law book would have helped. It puts some flesh on the skeletons and makes all the races but the Valiesians look a lot better.
Incidentally I believe the ancients that seeded the seven races around in a grand experiement were the Valiesians. It would explain why Earth was originally engineered for them. An odd hanging detail. I also suspect that the reason the sensenet is eating any robot that logs in is because there's a conspiracy among the Xanotasian and a brain tape of one of their queens has taken over the public network. It likely ties into the Kagoth "psychic plague" that's turning them from pascifists to killers. If they're routinely logging into the sensenet it seems likely the slow aggregation of subliminal cues could be responsible. Why? My guess would be that in their great psychic wisdom the Xanotasian Queens have predicted that the Falar will eventually destabilize and overthrow any interstellar government and that any peace would only last a generation and lead to a greater war. Of course, Robert Defendi won't say and ICE never did get the actual setting books out.
I hear folks trash SM: Privateers for being poorly organized, though when I looked through it, it didn't seem too bad. I'm thinking as a RM2/RM Classic player, if I ever did try SpaceMaster 2, it'd probably be closer to what I like. But I guess I don't know for sure.
Quote from: Zachary The First;633948Also, I really want to run Space Master 2nd edition one of these days. I've messed around with SpaceMaster: Privateers, but I've heard SM2 was a superior game. I need to grab those pdfs from RPGNow and see what I think. It looks like the print boxed set is fairly expensive, though.
IMO SM2 was superior. Even so I bought pretty much all the Privateers books. I wanted to like it so much. But it seemed so clunky in comparison to SM2.
It didn't have the same "feel" as SM2 either, the background material that is.
I guess I just preferred the SM2 background and that's a matter of taste.
I preferred the SM2 races as well.
Also SM2 worked very well with RM, which I was also running at the time and occasionally did crossover adventures, on Ceril7, where magic worked, which I believe was actually Kulthea (the shadow World RM setting, which I used for my RM campaign).
Well, crap, I don't need another sci-fi ruleset, but I'm pretty dang close to checking out Space Master 2e.
It'll have to wait for a look-over, though; I've got my Detectives in Space game for SC3 scheduled for next weekend. :)
X-Plorers. Very simple and fast. Flexible. Easily house-ruled to taste.
http://www.xplorersrpg.com/
Humanspace Empires. Neat variant of OD&D and Original Empire of the Petal Throne. Trippy. Nice weird "Watching a crummy print of Bava's Planet of the Vampires on the Late Late Show at 3 AM after a few drinks" feel. Also, it's free.
http://ixians.blogspot.com/2010/12/humanspace-empires.html
Quote from: Zachary The First;633959I hear folks trash SM: Privateers for being poorly organized, though when I looked through it, it didn't seem too bad. I'm thinking as a RM2/RM Classic player, if I ever did try SpaceMaster 2, it'd probably be closer to what I like. But I guess I don't know for sure.
The problem is that it means most people judge the game based on the core book. Which doesn't even include wrestling skill and has a very limited critical table set that requries some odd substitutions. It looks fine until you try to find things that should be there and aren't or wonder why half of combat is in the middle of the book and half of it is at the end. This is an issue with MERP and RMFRP but not the other editions because in the other editions the attack tables are in a separate book, not an appendix.
It also makes problems in Tech Law and Weapons Law which have four different variations on the Tech Level descriptions between them and there's around a dozen attack tables scattered through Tech Law that aren't in Weapons Law.
Like I say, the organization problems become apparant when you try to play it. I still love it. Can't help myself it seems. No matter how much every iteration of ICE since the bankrupcy has shat all over RMSS and SPAM.
Yeah, they were not/are not fans of RMSS/FRP, but especially not SS. I eventually found I preferred RM2/Classic over RMFRP, but I'd play either again in a heartbeat, and probably will.
OK, it's done. Ordered the Space Master pdfs. It'll be interesting to compare with Privateers.
Quote from: David Johansen;633965The problem is that it means most people judge the game based on the core book. Which doesn't even include wrestling skill and has a very limited critical table set that requires some odd substitutions. It looks fine until you try to find things that should be there and aren't or wonder why half of combat is in the middle of the book and half of it is at the end.
Yeah that's the feeling I got from it.
Character gen seemed particularly painful, having to scan all over the books to find some reference to a rule.
SM2 seemed much smoother and just generally easier to use and to my mind Privateers didn't really add much.
QuoteThis is an issue with MERP and RMFRP but not the other editions because in the other editions the attack tables are in a separate book, not an appendix.
Oddly enough I quite liked the RMFRP core book. It was a great introduction to RM. You only needed that 1 book to run RM up to 10th level.
Everything else was modularised.
If you wanted the full blown combat tables, buy Arms law.
You want all the spells? get each spell book, you could even buy each realm separately (essense, mentalism, channeling) which was really useful when you have several players all wanting to see spells.
You also had school of hard knocks, for detailed skill breakdown.
And extended races and character gen options, just get character law (or something like that).
Still, I mostly used RMSS as everything was in one place when browsing rules (as I was an RM veteran by then anyway) and by the time RMFRP came out I had moved onto Runequest based games.
The one downside to RMSS and RMFRP was it wasn't really compatible with SM2 and I really missed that.
In retrospect, I probably should have stayed with RM2 and SM2. Then dropped most of the plethora of RM2 companions and everything would have been sweet.
But all those lovely RMSS and RMFRP books were sooo tempting... ;)
QuoteIt also makes problems in Tech Law and Weapons Law which have four different variations on the Tech Level descriptions between them and there's around a dozen attack tables scattered through Tech Law that aren't in Weapons Law.
I would personally prefer a re-release of SM2 (and background) updated to be compatible with the new RM. That would be awesome.
The SM2 setting is problematic as ICE sold it off with Silent Death to the company that did Dark Age of Camelot. And it's not worth their legal department's time to bother with it. Though some Silent Death fans have sorted it out enough to bring Silent Death back.
I've always wanted a proper Silent Death rpg / skirmish wargame, that would be truly awesome. Savage Worlds plugs in very well but it doesn't feel the same. Ideally you'd be using the same attack and damage system. I tried getting Bruce to send me the files for X-Decom which was to be a boarding action game using the old Grenadier Space Rangers figures but I'm guessing it got announced and advertised without ever actually getting designed.
Silent Death the Next Millenium becomes an issue too as it does a Traveller the New Era blow up the setting and have a post apocalyptic dark age thing. Which of course the SM2 fans hate.
So I think the new Spacemaster will have a new setting in a couple years when it comes out. You might want to look at HARP SF. Nicholas Caldwell wrote it and he's the guy in charge of ICE now so it always gets some special love. At one point we were talking about doing a miniatures skirmish game for it but then he got wrapped up in fighting for control of ICE and it just kinda dropped off. Which is just as well, I hate HARP.
Hulks and Horrors - Damn right it's a favorite, I wrote it. I don't write what I don't love.
Classic Traveller - All those random tables make me hot. I've gotten more fun out of this game than many of my other purchases and I had to pay for those.
Cyberpunk 2020 - This is a long favorite genre of mine and I still think this is the best tabletop presentation of it, even if Shadowrun did weirdly have a more realistic computer system.
Star Wars D6 - the only Star Wars system, as far as I'm concerned. So good.
Quote from: David Johansen;633975The SM2 setting is problematic as ICE sold it off with Silent Death to the company that did Dark Age of Camelot.
Are they doing anything with that?
I suppose it doesn't matter as it won't be anything to do with Spacemaster anyway.
QuoteSo I think the new Spacemaster will have a new setting in a couple years when it comes out.
Ooh that'll be exciting. Has any work been done at all, or just on the agenda sometime in the future?
QuoteYou might want to look at HARP SF. Nicholas Caldwell wrote it and he's the guy in charge of ICE now so it always gets some special love. At one point we were talking about doing a miniatures skirmish game for it but then he got wrapped up in fighting for control of ICE and it just kinda dropped off. Which is just as well, I hate HARP.
I really liked HARP at first. but it just turned into an expansion nightmare like RM2 did.
That and I had to houserule it a lot to make it work (IMO). The spell system was pretty flaky. Especially healing spells. It was very easy to abuse.
I can't really bothered going back to that or HARP Scifi.
I loved some of the concepts from HARP tho.
HARP should have either been a much smaller and simpler game or the new edition of Rolemaster period. The timing wasn't great for a new edition of RM as it had just had one but HARP introduced a third division rather than healing any rifts. Even Rasyr (HARP's designer) feels that Rolemaster Express would have been the right product at the time. But ICE wanted a new MERP and HARP was supposed to be it. But MERP was brilliant and tied to a much loved setting and HARP was pretty workman-like, functional but neither innovative nor spectacular.
There hasn't been any work on a new Spacemaster to the best of my knowledge. I left the Rolemaster revision team on less than good terms. Feeling very much that the RMSS fans on the team had been brought in on bad faith promise of input when there was no intention of doing a damn thing to support their preferences no, not even with bloody side bar options. Oh well, I think the revision's pretty decent even if there isn't a single idea or notion I can claim to have been responsible for.
I fear that it just be one more division but that's as much because ICE is keeping the entire catalog available. I personally believe they just need to get behind a single edition and push it hard with good support. So far they haven't done much more to support Rolemaster than the last bunch did. And that is a tragic waste.
Quote from: David Johansen;633985HARP should have either been a much smaller and simpler game or the new edition of Rolemaster period.
I agree. As it stands, Dragon warriors is my fantasy game of choice. As it's really quick and works well enough.
Also because most of my roleplaying gaming is running RPGs for my kids (10 and 12) and DWs works very well, is quick and easy to pick up.
I have got a gaming group for adults going too, using Legend/MRQ2, but people are pretty unreliable so sessions are infrequent for that.
I love running games for my kids anyway, it really feels like getting back to t he roots of RPGs, if HARP didn't have the faults that it did, it could have filled this place.
I had a HARP forum on my site, it's here actually:
http://www.chaos8.com/forum/index.php?board=50.0
I had a dedicated forum for houserules.
But it's all too much work now and prefer simpler systems.
Another thing that irritated me about HARP was on the back of the book it promised official software for character gen and it never happened.
I'm amazed noone sued them because of that.
QuoteThe timing wasn't great for a new edition of RM as it had just had one but HARP introduced a third division rather than healing any rifts. Even Rasyr (HARP's designer) feels that Rolemaster Express would have been the right product at the time. But ICE wanted a new MERP and HARP was supposed to be it.
What was great about MERP wasn't so much the system to me, but that it was based in Middle Earth. I'm a big fan of Tolkien's work and have been since I was a kid. Although MERP worked well enough I guess.
QuoteBut MERP was brilliant and tied to a much loved setting and HARP was pretty workman-like, functional but neither innovative nor spectacular.
I thought HARP had some great ideas, like how you can mod spells so well and character gen was very open and offered loads of options.
I just think there was a few fatal flaws in it. I won't go into details tho, as I detailed them in the forum I posted earlier.
QuoteThere hasn't been any work on a new Spacemaster to the best of my knowledge. I left the Rolemaster revision team on less than good terms. Feeling very much that the RMSS fans on the team had been brought in on bad faith promise of input when there was no intention of doing a damn thing to support their preferences no, not even with bloody side bar options. Oh well, I think the revision's pretty decent even if there isn't a single idea or notion I can claim to have been responsible for.
Not surprised there's no work on a new SM yet. I can imagine they just don't have the resource to do that yet.
Whilst I haven't spent loads of time on the ICE forums I did notice a lot of division there, which is sad, but inevitable I suppose given the amount of times the company has folded, been bought, sold again etc etc.
Whilst I probably will buy the new RM and SM if it ever comes out. I think it's just too fractured to rescue and the fanbase too set in their ways to accept a new RM anyway.
That and as I've said for years, there NEEDs to be software for RM, it's just too much of a hassle to run these days. Really the type of system it is, it's just made for some sort of software and I don't mean the cobbled together excel spreadsheets and so on. I mean a proper GM aid.
QuoteI fear that it just be one more division but that's as much because ICE is keeping the entire catalog available. I personally believe they just need to get behind a single edition and push it hard with good support. So far they haven't done much more to support Rolemaster than the last bunch did. And that is a tragic waste.
It is a waste, but I think a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
The only suitable owner for the while ICE line IMO now is someone or people who expect to continually run it at a loss. or pour a load of money into it to give it the support it needs, which includes proper software support.
The problem is that what they need is a killer ap. The operating system, the rules don't sell a game to most gamers, it's that setting that resonates and is supported with fantastic artwork that evokes and matches the fluff.
It's a tough market out there but people are generally willing to put up with the system to play the much loved setting. Shadow world might do it but there'd need to be really evocative art and fluff at this point.
Yeah a decent setting IS important, but I disagree that it's more important than the system.
People have 100s of choices of RPGs these days, many free and some of those free offerings are pretty good.
As to art, for me at least that is not important, Sure I want SOME art in a book to give me a feel for the setting, But it's not something I need lots of like in Pathfinder for example.
Don't get me wrong tho, I love art, but a crap system won't get me to buy it even if it has nice art.
What I really miss in RPGs is an example scenario in the core rules book to give me a feel for the setting and how the rules work in real play. IT used to be a really common thing in RPGs
Competition on RPGs must be really fierce. In the 70s 80s and 90s it was a lot less competitive and little or no internet made it hard to see the alternatives. You relied on magazines, game shops and your peers.
Now if you come out with a crap system it'll be discussed to the nth degree on forums, you can be sure of that.
I certainly read forums a lot and check reviews, unboxings etc before I buy.
As it turned out, getting for example "Stars without number" for free in PDF format convinced me to buy the full version and I bought the hardcopy too.
I'll probably get the new RM when it comes out for old times sake and a good read, but I seriously doubt I'll get to run or play it. I think it'll be very hard to find people willing to play it.
Star Wars D20 Revised
Stars Without Number
Robotech/RIFTS et al.
Traveller (classic and D20)
All of these in no particular order of precedence.
Quote from: RPGPundit;634570Star Wars D20 Revised
Stars Without Number
Robotech/RIFTS et al.
Traveller (classic and D20)
All of these in no particular order of precedence.
You liked the QuikLink d20 Traveller? What about Mongoose, or do you lump that under Classic?
Quote from: Zachary The First;634576You liked the QuikLink d20 Traveller? What about Mongoose, or do you lump that under Classic?
I liked the one that was called Traveler T20, the big thick book; my most recent Traveller campaign was run with that and it went quite well.
I don't know about Mongoose directly because I've never tried it; from what I've heard its fairly close to Classic.
RPGPundit
My list is identical to yours Zachary. I thought I might add Blue Planet to your list because I like it's setting. I then realized that Starcluster 3 would be perfect to run the Blue Planet setting with.
Quote from: Sigmund;635145My list is identical to yours Zachary. I thought I might add Blue Planet to your list because I like it's setting. I then realized that Starcluster 3 would be perfect to run the Blue Planet setting with.
Yeah - that's the trouble with that game. No identity! :D
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;635151Yeah - that's the trouble with that game. No identity! :D
-clash
We have our Detectives in Spaaace game for SC3 this Saturday. So excited. :)
Star Frontiers or Mongoose Traveller. Both are excellent.
Star Wars d6 was also pretty darn good.
Well when I get the chance, in this order;
1. Star Trek (LUG)
2. Traveller (MGP)
3. Thousand Suns 2nd edition
4. SWN
5. Star Wars d6
All great.
Quote from: APN;633668WEG Star Wars probably
Quote from: The Butcher;633829Most of it was WEG (D6) Star Wars (several games including an epic Old Republic campaign, well before the prequels came out)...
I've got Stars Without Number and D6 Space in PDF just begging to see serious use, and I've also got Eclipse Phase in print and I'm dying to give it a try.
Another game that I've owned in PDF for some time now, that looks very, very interesting, is Bill Coffin's Septimus.
Quote from: TristramEvans;633833For [BSpace Opera[/B] my fav is hands down WEG's Star Wars, 1st Edition.
Quote from: jeff37923;633877WEG d6 Star Wars
Quote from: J Arcane;633976Star Wars D6 - the only Star Wars system, as far as I'm concerned. So good.
Quote from: danbuter;635160Star Wars d6 was also pretty darn good.
Quote from: flyingcircus;6353735. Star Wars d6.
...ditto.
It kind of makes you wonder how they never made a go of it once they lost the license.
I just ordered Other Dust from DTRPG, hardback + pdf.
Other dust is post appocalyptic, so still scifi.
Just started reading the pdf on my tablet now. Looks great so far.
Quote from: mcbobbo;635405...ditto.
It kind of makes you wonder how they never made a go of it once they lost the license.
AFAIK, WEG had a lot of money tied up in trying to save its parent company at the time.
I think D6 space is more or less the same thing, albeit stripped of license so without various bits (force, races etc). Need to take a closer look at that, but I have every Star Wars game going (save the newest FFG version). My favourite was 1e, simply because I was a fan and waiting for it to come out (in what, 1986?) Was somewhat blown away by the game and quality, but its not perfect.
It plays very well as a license free space adventure game though, recommended.
Quote from: danskmacabre;635413I just ordered Other Dust from DTRPG, hardback + pdf.
Other dust is post appocalyptic, so still scifi.
Just started reading the pdf on my tablet now. Looks great so far.
I got a review copy of this recently, but its way back in my queue, and I haven't even had time to crack the book open yet.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;636006I got a review copy of this recently, but its way back in my queue, and I haven't even had time to crack the book open yet.
RPGPundit
I read it over the weekend back to back.
I'll be running this soon for my kids who love RPGs.
The rules are pretty much the same as SWN. There's no psionics in it (which is fine), you're expected to get SWN, which is free anyway on PDF, so no biggie there.
It's has HUGE amounts of great reference material for generating Post apocalyptic areas and all sorts of stuff. Even if you never run Other dust. it's great to use for other Post apocalyptic RPGs.
I read a review of it which criticised the mutations for being too limited, but to me it seems very detailed, it's just generation of mutations is different than say Gammaworld, which has specific block for mutations.
In Other dust you refer to various tables to build up a mutation, so actually it can be as detailed and varied as you like.
It's probably more of a gritty feel to the mutations than say Gammaworld as well. To me it feels like perhaps one of the very early editions of Gammaworld.
Quote from: APN;635623I think D6 space is more or less the same thing, albeit stripped of license so without various bits (force, races etc). Need to take a closer look at that, but I have every Star Wars game going (save the newest FFG version). My favourite was 1e, simply because I was a fan and waiting for it to come out (in what, 1986?) Was somewhat blown away by the game and quality, but its not perfect.
It plays very well as a license free space adventure game though, recommended.
I was really rooting for WEG at one point but damn if the owner didn't do everything in his power to drive it into the ground :(
Well, as I commented previously, while I really love Gamma World, "not exactly like gamma world" is probably a good thing if you're making a P-A RPG.. otherwise what would be the point?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;636344Well, as I commented previously, while I really love Gamma World, "not exactly like gamma world" is probably a good thing if you're making a P-A RPG.. otherwise what would be the point?
RPGPundit
Yes I agree. it feels more like Mad Max with mutations.
Quote from: danskmacabre;636356Yes I agree. it feels more like Mad Max with mutations.
I thought Mad Max had mutations? Master Blaster?
Space 1889
Quote from: RPGPundit;636703I thought Mad Max had mutations? Master Blaster?
Not mutie enough.
Quote from: Piestrio;636012I was really rooting for WEG at one point but damn if the owner didn't do everything in his power to drive it into the ground :(
And it wasn't so much "deliberately bad", as "horribly aimless".
..which if Septimus had happened earlier, and hadn't blown up so bad, it might well be an industry leader, today.
(woulda, coulda, shoulda, I know)
I like both d6 WEG Star Wars, and d20 Star Wars Saga Edition. The first plays better with a tramp freighter crew, the second for a group wanting to play Force-users.
I greatly enjoy a set of Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader campaigns. We're continuing on a new campaign over Google+, my only active gaming at the moment.
Always down for some Robotech and RIFTS, though it's been almost a decade since the last time I played a campaign (lot's of one-shots and Con games, though).
Quote from: RPGPundit;636703I thought Mad Max had mutations? Master Blaster?
He could easily not have been a a mutant, he just looked mentally retarded to me. In fact that's the impression I got. I never thought of it as "There's a mutant". He was just a big strong person who was retarded.
Besides, modern civilization was easily in living memory for most, even some of the kids in the movie had vague memories of our society, hardly enough time for mutants to be born and be adults.
I should also add
Heavy Gear
Jovian Chronicles
While I associate these more with the "Mecha" genre than Sci-fi, they are that as well.
I am not fond of their systems, but I do love the settings with a passion however.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;636713Space 1889
Oh fuck yes! How could I have forgotten?!
RPGPundit
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;636713Space 1889
I'm currently playing an american baseball player for the Brooklyn Knickerbockers. While he's really quite progressive for his time and place the other players are finding him pretty appallingly racist and classist (he place baseball full time because he's rich, he's not rich because he plays baseball). I doubt he'll live through another session.
Quote from: RPGPundit;637180Oh fuck yes! How could I have forgotten?!
RPGPundit
Unfortunately this happens a lot... It saddens me that such a wonderful setting has languished for so long unknown, especially with the height of the Steampunk craze. The Savage Worlds book helps, but it really needs the attention and support the setting so richly deserves. I've always felt the game was ahead of its time. I think if released now, it would be very popular.
Quote from: David Johansen;637299I'm currently playing an american baseball player for the Brooklyn Knickerbockers. While he's really quite progressive for his time and place the other players are finding him pretty appallingly racist and classist (he place baseball full time because he's rich, he's not rich because he plays baseball). I doubt he'll live through another session.
Awesome!
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;637450Unfortunately this happens a lot... It saddens me that such a wonderful setting has languished for so long unknown, especially with the height of the Steampunk craze. The Savage Worlds book helps, but it really needs the attention and support the setting so richly deserves. I've always felt the game was ahead of its time. I think if released now, it would be very popular.
Yeah. And the thing is, I remember when it first came out. It was a huge deal... then it just kind of dropped out of existence.
RPGPundit
Quote from: gleichman;633764HERO, for all the reasons that HERO is awesome to begin with.
It does have a problem with Starships, and in some settings I've had to swap out to a set of home grown rules.
Was this with the Star Hero content or were you using the main book with your own system (http://home.roadrunner.com/~b.gleichman/Hero/)? I was going to mention Star Hero as one I would like to try, but never implemented. The
Star Hero book was one of the few chances for Hero that I had players immediately saying it looked cool, overriding the density of the book. It has a very science fiction look to it right off. I would like to use my stack of Star Hero books. If you have something like your Variants in Hero compiled rulings for Star Hero, it would be cool to see.
Traveller is the old stand by. I know it backwards and forwards, being able to apply its rules to all kinds of settings. I enjoy the
Skraypes setting Dimension Book 4 of Rifts. I can run a really cosmic science fiction game with
Marvel Superheroes. I prefer
Ex Machina, the Tri-Stat game, for some near future setting more like Cowboy Beebop / Ghost in the Shell. So, these are hovering around the top.
I could see running my GURPS 1/2 edition things, if players actually wanted to go that way. I have players that instantly liked the look of TSR's Buck Rogers. I've also had players look at my first edition of Space Master and want a try of it. Space 1889 usually gets a positive reaction from older players too.
But my good sirs! Space 1889 is not "steam punk"! Indeed I take offense at the very suggestion that it has any "punk" within it what so ever. Nor any extraneous gears stuck to everything in sight with a glue gun. No nor even an over dependance upon dirty coal fired steam engines when inventors can produce electrical and petroleum fueled conveyances. No nor shamelessly low necklines and obviously inflatable boosoms squeezed to the breaking point by steam powered corsets covered in extraneous tacked-on gears.
It is in fact a game of adventure in a more civilized age. An age of reason and science. Refinement and culture not this uncouth thrashing about to the death throes of some maniac with an electric guitar.
Goodness me, it makes me recoil just thinking about it. I shall have to be off for a cup of tea. Whatever is this world coming to?
You have a point there. Its got inventors in it, including some stuff that would certainly qualify as "pre-steampunk", but its not a game about the steampunk aesthetic; its a game about Imperialism.
RPGPundit
I was not calling Space 1889 "steampunk" I was referring that with the current popularity of Steampunk, that Space 1889 would do better in todays gaming scene, than it did back in 1988-89 when it came out.
Yes, Space 1889 is definitely a game of Imperialism, with a Sci-fi veneer. The best of Verne, Wells, and Burroughs rolled into an awesome package distinctly its own.
Quote from: J Arcane;633976Hulks and Horrors - Damn right it's a favorite, I wrote it. I don't write what I don't love.
Classic Traveller - All those random tables make me hot. I've gotten more fun out of this game than many of my other purchases and I had to pay for those.
Cyberpunk 2020 - This is a long favorite genre of mine and I still think this is the best tabletop presentation of it, even if Shadowrun did weirdly have a more realistic computer system.
Star Wars D6 - the only Star Wars system, as far as I'm concerned. So good.
Hmmm, no wonder I liked H&H - those are my three favorite sci-fi RPGs. I thought I detected some homages to Cyberpunk 2020 in there, and the link-up with Classic Traveller was evident.
I just re-read your rules for random generation of ancient installations and, again, kudos. I think it's the first time I've felt like creating space stations and hulks could be as easy as creating dungeons.
GURPS Steampunk, which came out long before steampunk became a mainstream fad and lost any resemblance to Victorian Space fantasies, is one of the btter GURPs sourcebooks.
while I'm not a fan of the GURPS system (meaning I don't dislike it, its a very functional system that does exactly what it sets out to do and ends up being exactly what it says on the box: "generic"), I wouldn't consider running a steampunk campaign without that resource.
My favourite actual system/setting for Steampunk, besides Planescape (which is merely Steampunk-esque), would be Castle Falkenstein.
Quote from: TristramEvans;638256GURPS Steampunk, which came out long before steampunk became a mainstream fad and lost any resemblance to Victorian Space fantasies, is one of the btter GURPs sourcebooks.
I never read that one. I might have to keep an eye out for it.
Quote from: TristramEvans;638256GURPS Steampunk, which came out long before steampunk became a mainstream fad and lost any resemblance to Victorian Space fantasies, is one of the btter GURPs sourcebooks.
while I'm not a fan of the GURPS system (meaning I don't dislike it, its a very functional system that does exactly what it sets out to do and ends up being exactly what it says on the box: "generic"), I wouldn't consider running a steampunk campaign without that resource.
My favourite actual system/setting for Steampunk, besides Planescape (which is merely Steampunk-esque), would be Castle Falkenstein.
The GURPS "Steam-Tech" book, basically a companion to the Steampunk book is very good as well
Castle Falkenstein though is, if anything, even less "steampunk" than Space:1889. If the latter is "Imperialism!" at least it includes "Science! Progress!" in all that, while Falkenstein is "dreamy victorian-fairy-story Romanticism", which I think is almost the opposite of steampunk (inasmuch as "steampunk" is really anything at all, and not just a really stupid word geeks use as an excuse to put cogs on shit while cosplaying).
RPGpundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;638737Castle Falkenstein though is, if anything, even less "steampunk" than Space:1889. If the latter is "Imperialism!" at least it includes "Science! Progress!" in all that, while Falkenstein is "dreamy victorian-fairy-story Romanticism", which I think is almost the opposite of steampunk (inasmuch as "steampunk" is really anything at all, and not just a really stupid word geeks use as an excuse to put cogs on shit while cosplaying).
RPGpundit
Steampunk is a pretty meaningless word, originating from back when people started confusing "punk" with "genre" and adding it to everything. But the best definition I've heard is simply
"exalting in the joy of Victorian aesthetics".
I can get behind that.
Quote from: TristramEvans;638775Steampunk is a pretty meaningless word, originating from back when people started confusing "punk" with "genre" and adding it to everything. But the best definition I've heard is simply
"exalting in the joy of Victorian aesthetics".
I can get behind that.
I agree that this definition is what that word means; but what it probably should have meant is "if cyberpunk had been written in the 19th century". That would have made some etymological sense, at least.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;639141I agree that this definition is what that word means; but what it probably should have meant is "if cyberpunk had been written in the 19th century". That would have made some etymological sense, at least.
RPGPundit
Technically, that is sort of what it was at it's inception. Remember that one of the core books of the genre was co-written by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling.
Quote from: J Arcane;639154Technically, that is sort of what it was at it's inception. Remember that one of the core books of the genre was co-written by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling.
That's right; but how quickly it moved away to that to sheer Lameness, With Cogs.
RPGpundit
When people say that Mongoose Traveller misses the feel of Classic (which was waaaaaay before my time) because there's no possibility of death in chargen: I don't have my book to hand at the moment but I'm 99% sure it's in there as an optional rule. Can anyone verify whether it's the same mechanic?
Quote from: AndrewSFTSN;641715When people say that Mongoose Traveller misses the feel of Classic (which was waaaaaay before my time) because there's no possibility of death in chargen: I don't have my book to hand at the moment but I'm 99% sure it's in there as an optional rule. Can anyone verify whether it's the same mechanic?
Absolutely. It's in page 40 ("Iron Man Character Generation") and it's the same mechanic (if you fail a Survival roll, instead of rolling on the Mishap table, you die).
I actually feel the Mishap table does a fairly good job of preserving the gambling spirit of Traveller chargen (because there's still a Survival roll with bad things happening to those who fail) as well as getting across Traveller's theme of "the Universe is a pretty fucking dangerous place", while doing away with death in character generation -- which is kind of cool but can be a drag at times (ask the guy who's rolled three dead men in a row). But I've actually considered slotting in a small chance of death in the Mishap table.
The problem is the feel of Classic Traveller, it's the balance. The reason people think it's the game of super human seventy year olds is that none of the injury tables or mishaps tables I've ever seen restored that balance adequately. Nor does aging accomplish it in any version where you get more skills and thus more access to personal development rolls. Allowing a new career after a failed re-enlistment roll also compounds the problem.
Because the set up is simply this: if you take another term you could lose your awesome or horrible character. And you have to weigh that against the benefits of an additional term. It's not just a life path it's a hopeless character removal system.
Megatraveller did okay with splitting the difference a bit. If you failed a survival roll you lost half of the term and your prior experience ended right there the character was done as surely as if they had failed a re-enlistment roll.
But the issue is balance not tone or feel or style of play. Its that there were distinct advantages to playing a fresh faced youth if you rolled a decent set of stats. Now it's all about maxing out your prior experience.
Traveller characters are superhuman? When did that happen?
In CT weapon damage comes directly off stats, and if you roll average and get to a skilled age, they go down. So let's say, generously, you have physical stats of 768.
Now, weapon damage for a simple weapon is, what, 3d6? And the first hit you take in a combat scene has to all come off one stat. So on average that's 10 damage and you are taking one stat completely down. You are disabled. One of your stats is at zero and another severely reduced.
Heaven forbid you get hit with a laser rifle. What, 5d6 or something like that? So mean is 23 and a bit. You are just plain dead, first hit.
This was a great strength of Traveller. Despite having all kinds of gun porn, combat was dangerous in the extreme. Whole Traveller sessions at my table often revolved around avoiding combat someone else wanted to get into. Characters built with Mercenary or even Scouts might have been very skilled, but they also remained very fragile, and that often meant that subtlety was called for even if you had a weapons rack full of Gauss Rifles and Combat Rifleman-3.
Well if I ever get to run MongTrav (sadface) I'll absolutely be including the death in character generation rule as mandatory, for the reasons specified by David above. That's always what I understood the rule was for-it's a gamble to see if you can squeeze in a few more connections and benefits-rather than the "soooo hardcore" idea you sometimes see it portrayed as.