Quote from: Mike the Mage;1039132Let's compare:

SJW: "Why have we met no LGBTQ characters so far?"
GM: "It's not important to the adventure."
SJW: "Erasure!"

with

SJW: "Why have we met no LGBTQ characters so far?"
GM: "I haven't rolled a 20 yet"
SJW: "....."

Neither situation would even happen if the GM had properly vetted his group BEFORE starting the game.

Vetting is what worries me.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1039171Vetting is what worries me.

GM: Now as you venture forth...
Disruptive Player: *makes barely coherent demands, causing the game to stop*
GM: Suddenly, a big rock falls from the sky. The planet is completely destroyed. Game over. I'm going to start drinking now.

Next week at a new location undisclosed to disruptive player.

GM: Now as you venture forth...

Quote from: Krimson;1039174GM: Now as you venture forth...
Disruptive Player: *makes barely coherent demands, causing the game to stop*
GM: Suddenly, a big rock falls from the sky. The planet is completely destroyed. Game over. I'm going to start drinking now.

Next week at a new location undisclosed to disruptive player.

GM: Now as you venture forth...

LOL
*cleans screen*
 Well, that is one approach.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1039183LOL
*cleans screen*
 Well, that is one approach.

You don't have to politically vet people. Disruptive people are going to be disruptive no matter what. My oldest friend does not get invited to parties because as soon as a certain amount of alcohol is imbibed, attempted assault and property damage ensues. No matter how much I like the guy, inviting him to such a social gathering would cause chaos, and it would be my responsibility for inviting him in the first place.

Can't say I recall a gay PC in my games (at least, not that I know of -- sexual orientation isn't something that often comes up or is important in my games). I would assume that some NPCs are homosexual, but again, it's not something that usually comes up in game. I do remember some players wondering if Rufus and Burne in T1 were an item, but nobody ever asked them and they didn't offer the information.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1039157Well PCs are the creation of the player. No roll necessary. :cool:

Do you like the d20 roll to determine if NPCs are LGBTQ or does this disappoint you as well?

I'm fine with rolling to determine NPC sexuality - or PC sexuality. Can you give some examples of how that's worked out in play? Exploderwizard gave a good example of random-roll traits earlier in the thread.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;1038729Long ago.....(the late 80's) some buddies and I from a local gaming club joined an AD&D campaign run by another club member. When we arrived to generate characters we found out that all characters would be generated via an "advanced" computer program. It was kind of a one button generator, kind of like pulling a slot machine lever to see what character you would play. This guy's campaign had a reputation as quite a meat grinder so we said what the hell. This generator gave you stats, personality, literally everything.
One of my buddies ended up with a gay kleptomaniac paladin. He had a lot of fun with that character for its brief lifespan. Constantly stealing from party members then returning the items with an apology. Good times.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;1039190Can't say I recall a gay PC in my games (at least, not that I know of -- sexual orientation isn't something that often comes up or is important in my games). I would assume that some NPCs are homosexual, but again, it's not something that usually comes up in game. I do remember some players wondering if Rufus and Burne in T1 were an item, but nobody ever asked them and they didn't offer the information.

It was 1980. Back then, everyone knew Rob Halford was gay and no fucks were given.

Quote from: jhkim;1038706So, inspired by another thread, what are some of people's favorite gay characters in games they played, or in game modules?

In our current VTR chron, there's Austin James -- Daeva to a fault, rising exemplar of the Clan, Blood Potency of 5 with Humanity of 3, has a thing for twinky ghouls and men's sauna aficionado.

Quote from: Broken Twin;1038950While actual sex rarely has a place at my table, hetero relationships are present in one form or another in pretty much all of them. Outside of Pathfinder (which I find to be a mixed bag), LGBT characters are almost non-existent in my gaming experience. Granted, how the GM presents the character has a lot to do with how we take them, regardless of the author's intent. I know of at least one example in the Hell's Rebels AP that seemed like over the top blatant pandering, but when I read the module later to prepare for a different group, I discovered that the previous GM had just been entirely unable to stop mentioning it, even when it was entirely irrelevant to what was happening at the time.

I have played a few gay characters, but even then their sexuality has mostly been a background note. And with my current IRL group, I don't really feel comfortable exploring that venue of storytelling in-game. Granted, there's a lot of things I dislike about the current group, but they haven't quite hit the tipping point of bad gaming vs no gaming.

So right now, no, I don't really have a favorite. I'd like to at some point in the future though.

Hopefully, you get chance to someday. It's not a major, major thing but it is fun and can really improve the quality of the game's narrative if done with any degree of taste.

To point, this doesn't mean you need to have sexing present in your game. Don't feel you need to a RP a candlelit rimming scene just to get the gay experience at your table.

Subtlety is underrated and underused so simple things like describing two men just having a quick smooch on a subway platform while waiting for their train: perfect. Total throwaway in among everything else you describe about the environment. Now, if you want to be more on-the-nose with it, you could in the same example have the couple targeted for a mugging by some fuckheads because of that smooch. This is an actual example I've dropped on my players and it's one of those things where you find out what your players are really about on the subject (because ultimately that's what great WOD games should do).

Quote from: jeff37923;1039096Why is it a political statement in itself? Why is it political at all?

What you yourself are IS politics. Haven't you heard? Don't you keep up with the times?

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1039100Er..that's it.

Bruh...

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;1039190

They are totally a thing. Like babs, srsly.

Quote from: jhkim;1039196I'm fine with rolling to determine NPC sexuality - or PC sexuality.

No, players should be allowed to choose the sexuality of their PCs. If a gay guy told me that his new 1st level fighter was gay, I certainly wouldn't ask him to roll a 20 on a d20. His character, his say. I'm surprised ate you, tbh.

Quote from: jhkim;1039196Can you give some examples of how that's worked out in play?

Not really, cos that was asuggestion I came up with today. OTOH I have been a member of the Communist Party, if that helps.

Quote from: jhkim;1039196Exploderwizard gave a good example of random-roll traits earlier in the thread.

Gay Paladin I can see working. Kleptomaniac Paladin is a bit Fishmalk. He would be a fighter with high Charisma, slow levelling and no divine powers before he hit level two.

I'd be fine with a chart for randomly determining my character's orientation.  I used to be entirely against random-anything on PCs, but after playing a few games where the PCs were entirely randomly generated, I was really pleasantly surprised by the variety of characters I was exposed to that I would have never normally seen at my table. If I'm already determining my PC's race and history randomly, why not their sexuality? It'll probably come up just about as much as their backstory does.

That being said, if I'm in a game where I'm manually creating my PC, I can decide their orientation just fine by myself, thanks.

Next game we're supposed to be playing is a Call of Cthulhu game set in 1923. Part of me really wants to play a gay black man, but in a setting like that I think it would be unreasonably distruptive to the table. Bet I could make it work though.

Quote from: Motorskills;1039147I think the point is that a conscious GM wouldn't need to roll dice, unless he is already doing that to determine key characteristics of his NPCs. If a GM does roll dice for that, and that's perfectly fine, some extra consideration is warranted. That can be dice, or just forethought, whatever works.

What if sexual orientation didn't matter for that NPC and their role in the adventure? Is it still important to check and make sure? Or does that mean that the GM isn't "woke"?

Quote from: Motorskills;1039147It is erasure if the players are occupying a mirror-world (OLDWORLD) with thousands or tens or thousands of people, many of whom are identified as being in hetero relationships, and none of whom are LGBT.

That extends - eventually - if the party meets tens or hundreds of NPCs, many of whom are in identified hetero relationships and none of them are LGBT either.

If your setting is NUWORLD, which is a mirror of our real world but you state that there are no LGBT people, you are likely to attract criticism. OLDWORLD might just be unfortunate unconscious thinking on the part of the GM, definitely takes some time and education, for all of us.
But the GM design decisions for NUWORLD appear actively hostile.

So by keeping things that are extraneous to the actual play of the game, out of the game, is considered by you to be actively hostile? Does this mean that you believe that tabletop RPGs can cause injury to people and thus dangerous?

Quote from: Motorskills;1039147In your sci-fi setting....that's up to you, but don't forget the ultimate objective: what is it you are trying to say about the world? If hetero relationships are important, why are you not including LGBT as well?

Because AI computers and Dralasites are not interested in what is really a function beyond their ability to experience?

Quote from: Motorskills;1039147Bear in mind that many sci-fi authors push the boundaries the other way, by having all sorts of relationships take centre-stage. I think you are pushing back on my argument by mentioning the downloady stuff in your campaign....but that sounds cool, why not make it a positive thing?

Because your argument screams of tokenism for GBLT characters in tabletop RPGs. If that is how you roll, then so be it.

Quote from: Motorskills;1039147You mention quadriplegic characters. I have had disabled players at my table (two amputees, one blind). I don't think any of them played disabled characters, I don't think they would have wanted to. Not for escapism, but because that wasn't important to their game.

So you are saying that it is OK to exclude things which are not important to a game. That is exactly what I have been saying. I'm glad we agree on that.

Quote from: Motorskills;1039147But if I learned that I would be helping those players enjoy the real world a little more by putting in representative NPCs...sure, I would try to accommodate that. Part of my reluctance with any of this stuff is trying to avoid making a mess. But from what I can tell, mostly people are glad you make an effort.

So it sounds like it is an individual decision. Why not let the individual game groups decide what to include and exclude based on the Players and GM? Or like jhkim, you do not trust the common gamer with that responsibility?

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1039235What you yourself are IS politics. Haven't you heard? Don't you keep up with the times?

Damn. I guess that I have to leave this bubble of mine called sanity and embrace the woke.

Quote from: jhkim;1038706So, inspired by another thread, what are some of people's favorite gay characters in games they played, or in game modules?

For me, I think my favorite was Quentin Q. Falstaff III, 008 - played by my friend Jim.  This was in a James Bond 007 campaign that I ran in the early 2000s - but it was set back in the 1980s.  Quentin was a huge, mustached, beef-eating, horse-riding English nobleman and secretly a spy for MI-6.  With his high profile as cover, he could travel the world and engage in secret work behind the scenes.  He was also thoroughly gay - an indulgence that society turned a blind eye to.  In the game, it came up mostly in select NPCs that he met up with. In keeping with the grand 1980s James Bond tradition, he met up with a comely Scotsman named Phil McCracken, or later a Russian expatriate named Ivan Moorcock. It was a lot of fun, and he added a lot to the game.

Does that include bi-sexual ones;)?
If yes, the Lawfully Chaotic Jacqueline from my first DCC game definitely takes the prize, if only because she was the most recent one:)!
She was a Str 6 Warrior who managed to inspire holy terror in close combat. In fact, she survived a combat with a regenerating giant (whom she drew away from the party because he was kicking their asses, and she figured they'd need time to regroup). Until then, he was one-shotting all the NPCs we wanted for henchmen:D.
Also, during one raid against goblins, said goblins killed a (0-level) NPC that Jacqueline fancied. They'd barely spoken, but Jacqueline always was into muscle-bound female warriors (and didn't know the NPC considered her a dangerous reaver who kills on a whim - her fame preceded her). To add insult to injury, they stole her body, and later showed having access to the voice and memories of the deceased.
So Jacqueline did what Baron Meliadus did in "Jewel in the Skull". Namely, she swore on all the gods and demons that she'd return, and kill them all, and free all the captured souls. (Meliadus swears an oath on the legendary Runestaff to gain power over Count Brass, gain Yisselda and destroy the Kamarg).
Unlike Meliadus, she did exactly that;).

Quote from: Broken Twin;1039250Next game we're supposed to be playing is a Call of Cthulhu game set in 1923. Part of me really wants to play a gay black man, but in a setting like that I think it would be unreasonably distruptive to the table. Bet I could make it work though.

Quote from: AsenRG;1039263Does that include bi-sexual ones;)?
If yes, the Lawfully Chaotic Jacqueline from my first DCC game definitely takes the prize, if only because she was the most recent one:)!
She was a Str 6 Warrior who managed to inspire holy terror in close combat. In fact, she survived a combat with a regenerating giant (whom she drew away from the party because he was kicking their asses, and she figured they'd need time to regroup). Until then, he was one-shotting all the NPCs we wanted for henchmen:D.
Also, during one raid against goblins, said goblins killed a (0-level) NPC that Jacqueline fancied. They'd barely spoken, but Jacqueline always was into muscle-bound female warriors (and didn't know the NPC considered her a dangerous reaver who kills on a whim - her fame preceded her). To add insult to injury, they stole her body, and later showed having access to the voice and memories of the deceased.
So Jacqueline did what Baron Meliadus did in "Jewel in the Skull". Namely, she swore on all the gods and demons that she'd return, and kill them all, and free all the captured souls. (Meliadus swears an oath on the legendary Runestaff to gain power over Count Brass, gain Yisselda and destroy the Kamarg).
Unlike Meliadus, she did exactly that;).

Cool. The combination of these two reminds me - I had a very long-running character in a many-year 1930s Call of Cthulhu campaign who was bisexual.  He had been a German WWI veteran, and was scarred by time in the trenches - including forbidden tragic love.  In the campaign, he fell in love and got married to a woman early on, but his bisexuality was commented on from time to time - especially because his wife was a fellow investigator who frequently wore men's clothing (i.e. pants instead of dresses in the 1930s).  Also, he was a painter and part of the Bohemian art scene at the time, where his bisexuality was not a big deal.