Are they really necessary for aspects to work?

Could you not just: add +x where an aspect would be used, and/or -x where an aspect would be compelled? Without having to play with points?

Am i missing something?

Yeah. Without Fate Points there's no mechanical benefit to having a negative Aspect. You might as well just fill all your Aspect slots with "the best at everything!" if there's no Fate Point economy.

What you are missing from the equation is the resource management element. Fate Points are meant to be a limited resource. They are there to allow your character to throw extra oomph into an action when it matters, to beat those impossible odds or make up for that unlucky dice roll.  

Invoking an Aspect serves to justify where this extra effort is coming from, be it something from character's background or something he is passionate about. It basically encourages a player to stay "on character". However just to be clear, it's the spending of a Fate Point that gives the +2, not the Aspect.

Also note, out of interest, in the original version of Fate (perversely called Fate 2.0) each Aspect had 1 to 3 tick boxes to indicate how many times that Aspect could be invoked per session. When you invoked an Aspect you'd get a reroll and tick one of the boxes. That may be more what you are thinking about.

You still had Fate Point though. You did not need to invoke an Aspect to spend a Fate point, however you did earn Fate Points through Compel.

Yes, I suppose that makes sense

Ok, what if you only had Aspects and Fate points.
No skills/attributes or whatever.
Instead you have a straight die roll, and the only way to influence it was to spend Fate points to get modifiers?

at first i thought this was going to be about WFRP.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;540345Ok, what if you only had Aspects and Fate points.
No skills/attributes or whatever.
Instead you have a straight die roll, and the only way to influence it was to spend Fate points to get modifiers?

I believe it's been done, if only a fan-based level. I personally see Fate as simple skill based system with a few extra tools for a more character driven style play, but I fairly conservative in my approach to Fate.

In the 2.0 version of Fate, use of Aspects did not cost Fate points.  Instead you had ranks of Aspects, i.e. "Strong Like Bull 3" or "My Dagger Is My Only Friend 1".  The ranking was the number of times you could use that aspect in a single session.  You still got Fate points for Compels, and Fate points still gave you bonuses, but they weren't required to use an Aspect as long as you had an unused rank.  You could spend a Fate point to clear a used rank, though.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;540345Ok, what if you only had Aspects and Fate points.
No skills/attributes or whatever.
Instead you have a straight die roll, and the only way to influence it was to spend Fate points to get modifiers?

Hmm. Well, the Strands of Fate version only has attributes, no skills. If you want to be an ace pilot, you take an Aspect called Ace Pilot. There are also advantages you can buy.

I like it. It keeps the characters from being totally generic when they are out of Fate points. I mean, even if your tank is empty, you can still be faster than average, or better looking, or whatever. Attributes and advantages are the constants. Aspects are the added oomph that make your character interesting.

Quote from: daniel_ream;540381In the 2.0 version of Fate, use of Aspects did not cost Fate points.  Instead you had ranks of Aspects, i.e. "Strong Like Bull 3" or "My Dagger Is My Only Friend 1".  The ranking was the number of times you could use that aspect in a single session.  You still got Fate points for Compels, and Fate points still gave you bonuses, but they weren't required to use an Aspect as long as you had an unused rank.  You could spend a Fate point to clear a used rank, though.

Just out of curiosity: how/when would you use that aspect?

Quote from: BillionSix;540450Hmm. Well, the Strands of Fate version only has attributes, no skills. If you want to be an ace pilot, you take an Aspect called Ace Pilot. There are also advantages you can buy.

I like it. It keeps the characters from being totally generic when they are out of Fate points. I mean, even if your tank is empty, you can still be faster than average, or better looking, or whatever. Attributes and advantages are the constants. Aspects are the added oomph that make your character interesting.

No fate point in Strands of Fate then?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;540458Just out of curiosity: how/when would you use that aspect?

I would assume you could tag that any time you were fighting by yourself and armed with said dagger, for one.  I could see tagging it on an Intimidation or Persuasion roll, to emphasize to your target what a stone-cold badass you are.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;540459No fate point in Strands of Fate then?

No, there are Fate Points. But even if you are out, you still have attributes and other stuff.

Quote from: daniel_ream;540519I would assume you could tag that any time you were fighting by yourself and armed with said dagger, for one.  I could see tagging it on an Intimidation or Persuasion roll, to emphasize to your target what a stone-cold badass you are.

But when would it be compelled?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;540336Are they really necessary for aspects to work?

Could you not just: add +x where an aspect would be used, and/or -x where an aspect would be compelled? Without having to play with points?

The way that aspects are player-made, I think so, yes. Since players just come up with aspects during chargen, some aspects may be much more widely applicable than others. As a consequence, you can't rely on naked aspects to be self balancing.

The way they work in FATE 3.0, the balancing component of the aspect mechanic is the fate point, aspects just serve as a "gateway" to use them. In games like SotC or Bulldogs that give you plenty of aspects to work from, everyone should have plenty of opportunity to find an aspect that works in a certain situation; the thing keeping players on an even keel is the fate point limit.

For this reason, I view FATE variants/house rules with much smaller lists of aspects with a jaundiced eye.