Quotethey mean to fucking kill you.  It's worse, in fact, than shooting someone because psychologically it's more damaging.

So what?
They are always out to kill me. One more reason to kill him first. Even more so, when the adventure is in a lull.

Quote from: JimBobOzI've also often said that the most important thing in any group is that everyone gets along. No amount of brilliant GMing or roleplaying can help you if someone just plain doesn't like you. ParaVox3, it's now revealed, just plain doesn't like me. If someone has a GMing or roleplaying tip which can help you game wonderfully, or even just okay, with someone who dislikes them - then I don't think I'd be the only one who'd love to hear it.

Er, dude.  She just read you calling her a "Mary Sue", a "rules-lite munchkin", and more -- not just complaining about her character behavior, but her out-of-game behavior like the resume.  I expect that has a fair amount to do with her just-expressed dislike.  

Also, it looks like my guess was way off that she was relatively new to role-playing.  (It appears she's GMed several games and runs a MUD.)  However, I was going off limited information.    

Now, I've seen games survive participants who argue and call each other names -- but yeah, this seems like it's not going to work.

Quote from: RedFoxDude, the warning was the homunculus.  That should tell people that the dude either A: has access to a powerful ritual, or B: is a flesh-crafter with no small power.  Either way, it means he's a Duke, which means bad news.

How so? This was apparently a point in the campaign where they didn't know much about magic. How are they supposed to see a freaky little creature and suddenly know about Fleshcrafting and Dukedom? Sure, they know something's up, but it looks like they'd have to be cheating* to suddenly assume the specifics.

* Unless using OOC knowledge is allowed in UA.

Quote from: droogWell, JB, what do you expect? You come on very strong when giving advice to other people, and you often put the blame on the GM/players/group.

And I was right. Both GM and player fucked up in this instance, by not finding a solution at the game table. ParaVox3 fucked up, and so did I.

Quote from: droogI offered you advice in good faith (and I had to reach back into my memory to do it),

With respect, the only advice I recall from you was, "boot the player." I didn't consider that the best solution. The least worst, perhaps - but not the best.

Quote from: droogbut I have to say that, like Spike and Settembrini, there were certain doubts in my mind as to whether we'd heard the real story. That's based on your online behaviour as well as what I've heard elsewhere.

It's always good to hear from all sides. That's why I welcomed their posts here.

Overall, we have GM + one player saying, "there's a player causing trouble," and two players saying, "stupid GM, it's his fault," while a fourth player hasn't commented, but would probably say, "what the fuck is wrong with you all?"

I do not think this is a terribly unusual thing, nor does it indictate that I or ParaVox3 are evil people unworthy to game with anyone. As I said, with me as GM and three out of four players the same, we previously had what was for me my best campaign ever, and what was well-spoken of by ParaVox3 and RuggedIndoorsman at the time and afterwards.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I realise that you, droog, are keen to find extra reasons for your hatred of me, not much I can about that. But the general point is that players and GMs are responsible for what happens at the game table. If we fucked up, it's our fault.

Yes, I did wrong. Yes, I made a mistake. Yes, I have things to be sorry for. Yes, I was searching for solutions, and did it in the wrong way.

Now, who's next to confess to being imperfect as a GM and player? In detail, as I did.

Anyone?

Quote from: JimBobOzNow, who's next to confess to being imperfect as a GM and player? In detail, as I did.

Anyone?

Ahem :

 http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=68943#post68943

I do have my moments...

Regards,
David R

Sorry, David R, that's not a GM fuckup, that's just a normal course of events in an rpg. Make one PC the most important, then the player doesn't show or the character dies or something... That's not a GM fuckup. That's just "shit happens."

Try harder. I'm sure someone must be worse than me.

Quote from: JimBobOzWith respect, the only advice I recall from you was, "boot the player." I didn't consider that the best solution.
.................
I realise that you, droog, are keen to find extra reasons for your hatred of me, not much I can about that.the wrong way.

My advice was pragmatic – stop worrying about teaching people about consequences and think about how to take the game forward and make it fun.

Sounds to me like the player might be doing her own booting at this stage.

And you've got me wrong. I don't hate you. I don't even dislike you. Not that I think we could be best mates or anything.

Quote from: James McMurrayHow so? This was apparently a point in the campaign where they didn't know much about magic. How are they supposed to see a freaky little creature and suddenly know about Fleshcrafting and Dukedom? Sure, they know something's up, but it looks like they'd have to be cheating* to suddenly assume the specifics.

* Unless using OOC knowledge is allowed in UA.

My point was that it was the only warning they had been given, and it was rendered moot anyway by the adept bursting in going, "Wah, my critter!" and kicking ass at them.

I thought the problem with that scenario was that Paravox3 wasn't backing down after the guy had done major damage to her.  I could be off here, though.  It's been a few pages since the scenario was described.  And I'm still not entirely sure what JimBob's complaint about that situation was.

Quote from: droogMy advice was pragmatic – stop worrying about teaching people about consequences and think about how to take the game forward and make it fun.

Problem is, UA is "the roleplaying game of power and consequences." Forgetting about them is like, I dunno, forgetting about magic in Ars Magica. You can do it, but probably better just to play some other game.

Should I have canned the game and played or run something else? Maybe, yes. But you know how it is, you get into a game and think, "surely I can make this work a bit better, I'll give it another session or two."

Quote from: droogSounds to me like the player might be doing her own booting at this stage.

Yep, you're correct. And it's very unfortunate, I think. If we had always had only bad game sessions together, then I would say, "oh well, no loss." But four of the five of us have previously had a good campaign together. I imagine it was on the strength of that previous success that I was given another go, despite what I've now discovered is her personal dislike of me.

Quote from: droogAnd you've got me wrong. I don't hate you. I don't even dislike you. Not that I think we could be best mates or anything.

Then you need to work on clear expression in your posts. When a person over a period or a year or two consistently insults and tears down another as an individual, and enver has anything positive to say about them, then that individual gets an impression of dislike.

And yes, I also need to work on clearer expression. I fuck up, I learn, I try to improve.

Edit: oh, and the last session is written up on the campign page. I thought it was a good session, overall. The group break-up has come not from the events of that session, but from my public kvetching at length here.

Quote from: JimBobOzThen you need to work on clear expression in your posts. When a person over a period of a year or two consistently insults and tears down another as an individual, and never has anything positive to say about them, then that individual gets an impression of dislike.

Oh, I gave the impression I intended to.

Let's just say I wanted you to feel the consequences of your actions.

"I don't hate you, I just wanted to give you the impression that I hate you."

Yeah, whatever.

I guess as others have said, being called a cunt by droog is no great accomplishment. He's about as friendly in his posts as I am brief.

Quote from: JimBobOz"I don't hate you, I just wanted to give you the impression that I hate you."

Yeah, whatever.

I guess as others have said, being called a cunt by droog is no great accomplishment. He's about as friendly in his posts as I am brief.

You'll get it one day. But might I say that I think you have vastly improved on this forum? Must be the atmosphere.

That was old J Arcane who said that, wasn't it? Another fellow who needs to learn something. Spare the rod and spoil the child, I say.

I'm not going to get involved in all of this, being a generally private person. It could easily become very ugly and out of respect for those involved, and my own mental well-being, I'd rather avoid that.

However, I will say that I've found Jimbob's impressions of ParaVox3 are very far off base. I've GMed for her countless times, and played in many of her games as well, and she has never once had an issue with 'bad things' happening to her characters. Quite the opposite in fact, as some of our more memorable experiences have been in exactly those moments.

The issue of the player being booted is now pretty much a moot point as ParaVox3 and I have withdrawn from the game. It is a disappointment, as there was a lot of promise in it, and the previous campaign we played last year turned out to be great fun and very memorable for the most part.

Needless to say, she and I were struck entirely out of left field at finding this thread as well as the others, noting also a previous one several weeks ago on another of the players; I'm disappointed that this seems to be JimBob's preferred method of dealing with game issues.

Just to point out, ParaVox3 is my wife, so I'm undoubtedly biased in what I've said above.

Thanks,
Ben / Rugged Indoorsman.

Well, I've skimmed through the latest posts in the thread and thought about some possible responses.  I think there is only one thing I can add...

Anyone got a spare spot in a game in Melbourne?  My regular game seems to have imploded

Quote from: Rugged IndoorsmanNeedless to say, she and I were struck entirely out of left field at finding this thread as well as the others, noting also a previous one several weeks ago on another of the players; I'm disappointed that this seems to be JimBob's preferred method of dealing with game issues.

If you feel JimBob misrepresented the situation, I can understand being pissed off. But I'm actually glad that he shared the story with us and even more glad that we got your side as well.

Threads like these can be pretty beneficial for every GM and player.

JimBob's only mistake here (aside from possibly misrepresenting certain facts) was to get caught by his players.