This is an offshoot of the little know games thread as something I've been interested in (especially after seeing it in HPB two weeks ago): how hard is it to convert 3.x material to FantasyCraft? Are there enough tools in the toolkit to make something inspired by other material that fits a similar power level/purpose straight forward? Can any be used straight out of the book, especially monsters and magic items? How about spells?

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 03, 2023, 12:07:04 PM
This is an offshoot of the little know games thread as something I've been interested in (especially after seeing it in HPB two weeks ago): how hard is it to convert 3.x material to FantasyCraft? Are there enough tools in the toolkit to make something inspired by other material that fits a similar power level/purpose straight forward? Can any be used straight out of the book, especially monsters and magic items? How about spells?

As the Resident Fantasycraft Apologist here...

1) It's not hard *at all* to convert 3.x material to Fantasycraft. The rules to do so are in the book on page 295.
2) The ability to create your own content can be done, they used to have a chart on their forums for point values etc. Not sure if it's still there. But yes, you could create literally anything in 3.x and probably a lot more and it would run perfectly fine in FC.
3) Spells are differentish, monsters are *better*. In FC the monsters you know and love are a *LOT* more dynamic. And they use tables to both scale offensive and defensive capabilities on the fly as needed. You don't have to worry about CR (which was a bullshit system anyhow). This type of scaling can make literal 1hd Goblins into 20hd POWERHOUSES literally between rounds if you needed to, with zero effort. It's designed to let you make monsters as needed with their stat-blocs always right in front of you based on your needs on a sliding chart of numbers. This sounds crazy, I know... but it's an amazing GM tool and piece of 3.x design.

Spells - are different in the sense they're scaling powers that have modifiers based on how you want to cast them. Effectively 95% of the spells you know in D&D are in there... but no all of them. You could make them up if you need to, but it depends on what you want from magic. If you're looking for all the weird arcane shit in the furthest reaches of some obscure 3rd party book... you'll probably have to wing it. If you're trying to get to Spells as effects - you're 90% there.

I HIGHLY recommend the core book obviously, but you should also get the Adventurer's Companion which is material they couldn't fit into the Core book.

Thanks...you were my first thought on getting an answer.

Given your Talislanta love, have you used FantasyCraft there?

FantasyCraft IS the toolkit d20 fantasy rpg. It's chock full of so many bells and whistles that with this book and the Adventure Companion book it does more than 30 D&D 3.5 books. It's crazy good how deep the game can be. And that's also why it wasn't very popular. Most people, wanting things laid out and handed to them, don't want to put in any effort to learn and make use of all the tools.

It's polar opposite D&D with regards to magic. FC has 1 magic using class and one that has the option but isn't required. It has classes that focus on non combat roles. It has classes that are strong combat focused, but none as basic as a simple Fighter.

It has really cool Species. It uses species because your options are truly different species. You got your normal Humans, dwarves and elves, but it also has Drake's, Tree people, lizardfolk, constructs, and ogres as species options. Drake's can fly. All at level 1.

Then it has Species Feats that let you build any kind of subspecies options.

This game has phenomenal depth.

Nope. I thought about it at one time... but frankly I tend to like to go from complex to simpler.

And the Talislanta system doesn't need more complexity. It just needs a couple of tune-ups. I still think it's one of the best systems out there. At one point they made a setting neutral version of it, the OMNI System. It never got traction which was a real shame.

If ANYTHING - the only system I'd translate Talislanta into would be Savage Worlds.

Fantasycraft, to me, is the ultimate D&D Heartbreaker. It was the system I felt should have been 4e.

Quote from: RebelSky on January 03, 2023, 04:18:09 PM
FantasyCraft IS the toolkit d20 fantasy rpg. It's chock full of so many bells and whistles that with this book and the Adventure Companion book it does more than 30 D&D 3.5 books. It's crazy good how deep the game can be. And that's also why it wasn't very popular. Most people, wanting things laid out and handed to them, don't want to put in any effort to learn and make use of all the tools.

It's polar opposite D&D with regards to magic. FC has 1 magic using class and one that has the option but isn't required. It has classes that focus on non combat roles. It has classes that are strong combat focused, but none as basic as a simple Fighter.

It has really cool Species. It uses species because your options are truly different species. You got your normal Humans, dwarves and elves, but it also has Drake's, Tree people, lizardfolk, constructs, and ogres as species options. Drake's can fly. All at level 1.

Then it has Species Feats that let you build any kind of subspecies options.

This game has phenomenal depth.

TRUTH shines.

Quote from: tenbones on January 03, 2023, 04:19:15 PM
At one point they made a setting neutral version of it, the OMNI System. It never got traction which was a real shame.

I lost my pdf of Omni. Is it on drive-thru?
I wish there was a retroclone/online srd.
Does Hellas use it? Looks like it. Are there differences?

Edit: $6 on drive-thru.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/2862

How well balanced is it? Fantasycraft I mean. That's just always been a D&D 3e issue.

Also how complex does it make making high level monsters & such?

I had a lot of fun reading FC. Even bought some of the DLCs new class packs. Never ran it though I would like to someday.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 03, 2023, 09:58:35 PM
How well balanced is it? Fantasycraft I mean. That's just always been a D&D 3e issue.

Also how complex does it make making high level monsters & such?

It is *shockingly* balanced. It's like every stat, derived stat, and sub-system is balanced against themselves for he purposes of dealing with narrative assumptions of D&D style fantasy.

They *really* went deep with it. Every stat matters. So while you could dumpstat your character, it would hurt you in other areas a lot. Feats are hugely beefed up. No Feat Trees are more than three-deep. ALL Feats are good. Seriously, you can't go wrong. And they're designed to make combat and social play effective rather than piecemealing abilities to you that your concept should already have.

Vitality(HP)/Health - means that certain attacks can bypass "HP" altogether. Crits, Backstab etc. This mean non-casters are *dangerous*.

I could go on and on...  the whole purpose of Fantasycraft was to create an actual toolkit that was balanced against itself. It's a marvelous piece of design. I highly recommend anyone remotely interested in d20 (and especially 3.x in ANY way, shape, or form) to pick up the PDF. Don't forget the Adventurer's Companion.

You can also Search this forum for Fantasycraft - I've talked about the game a *lot* in several dedicated threads. But I'm always happy to answer any questions with what I know.

Quote from: tenbones on January 04, 2023, 10:37:27 AMYou can also Search this forum for Fantasycraft - I've talked about the game a *lot* in several dedicated threads. But I'm always happy to answer any questions with what I know.

How does it handle prepwork? Another issue of 3e is thst prepwork inflates for a gm too fast. And that high level characters are just generally overpowered overall.

There's no doubt in my mind that FC is one of the best D20 games ever created. I've never played it, but I did play it's predecessor, Spycraft. But I took one look at Spycraft 2.0 and abandoned ship. It's the same thing that holds me back from FC-- it's just too much. I wish there was a Lite version.

Did a quick skim of FC tonight. It's not as heavy as I thought. It looks that way at first, until you realize it's a player's and GM's book combined.

Next time I want to run fantasy I'm going to give it a spin.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on January 04, 2023, 10:50:54 AM

Quote from: tenbones on January 04, 2023, 10:37:27 AMYou can also Search this forum for Fantasycraft - I've talked about the game a *lot* in several dedicated threads. But I'm always happy to answer any questions with what I know.

How does it handle prepwork? Another issue of 3e is thst prepwork inflates for a gm too fast. And that high level characters are just generally overpowered overall.

Depends on what you mean by "prepwork". For me, I do sandboxes, so I've done 90% of the work, by my standards, ahead of time. Most of the prep between my games is filling in potential material ahead of the PC's based on where they were going or what they were doing when we stopped the last session.

So for me this means only making sure NPC statblocs are up to date, making sure any maps are ready. And detailing locales with specificity as needed.

As a toolkit, you definitely have to have your setting-specifics in stone. But for making monsters, Magic items, etc? Once you do it a couple of times it's a piece of cake. You can even do it on the fly. Highlevel play shouldn't be too much of a problem because combat can be as lethal as needed with very little effort. Monsters can scale ridiculously easy.

For instance - if you Goblins are 1hd creatures, and you want them to be 10hd creatures, there is a literal table where they give you ALL the attack and defense bonuses of a creature based on that HD. All you have to do is skin it in your description. Sound vanilla? Give it some Feats (the monsters have their own Feats and special abilities). You can do this on the fly at will with zero effort.

Suddenly those high-level players run into your mutant Goblins that have been eating Black Dragon Gamma-irradiated Spleencakes, and start dunking on those PC's and giving them the asswhooping of their lives.

My general answer is "Once you get used to the basic differences between D&D and FC - and while basic, they're significant in their *expression in play* - then your normal preptime should be a lot easier than in D&D. This is my general perception.

Quote from: Aglondir on January 04, 2023, 04:33:12 PM
There's no doubt in my mind that FC is one of the best D20 games ever created. I've never played it, but I did play it's predecessor, Spycraft. But I took one look at Spycraft 2.0 and abandoned ship. It's the same thing that holds me back from FC-- it's just too much. I wish there was a Lite version.

FantasyCraft is the Lite version of the same basic system in Spycraft 2.0.