Quote from: Arohtar;806623Yes. It is because I prefer to keep the dragons an evil race, like in Tolkien.

So, wait, there's a logical inconsistency right there....you wont accept a change to spectres, and your arguments are based on D&D being a setting RAW, but you're altering Dragons now? Thats pretty blatant goalpost shifting.

Quote from: tuypo1;806622the gods arent needed because the wizard cant do that somebody else will come and stop him

if your player wants to raze the countryside he will find he gets killed pretty quickly unless the state does not send anybody to fight him for some reason

Who should stop him? The countryside is populated by ordinary people. Or would you hide a number of high level characters among the population? I think that is unrealistic. Under normal circumstances the population is normal, but when a player tries to abuse a peasant, he is suddenly a 36th level retired fighter. Yes, I have tried such a DM. For me the ordinary city guard was suddenly composed of 12th level fighters, but it seemed like unrealistic "DM invention" anyway.

Quote from: Arohtar;806623Yes. It is because I prefer to keep the dragons an evil race, like in Tolkien.

but we arent talking about tolkin here we are talking about d&d if you make such a drastic change to your setting you should mention as such at the start of the conversation just as you would when running a game in that setting

Quote from: Arohtar;806628Who should stop him? The countryside is populated by ordinary people. Or would you hide a number of high level characters among the population? I think that is unrealistic. Under normal circumstances the population is normal, but when a player tries to abuse a peasant, he is suddenly a 36th level retired fighter. Yes, I have tried such a DM. For me the ordinary city guard was suddenly composed of 12th level fighters, but it seemed like unrealistic "DM invention" anyway.

no somebody will come who is a 36th level retired fighter (well not that powerful but it wont be 1 person it will be a heap of people although to be fair i tend to run pretty high level npcs all leaders of large groups are at least level 20 such as the head warmage at tarrth moorda and whatnot) i would think the city guard would be warriors not fighters although i suppose you would have a fighter lead each squad hell in union each squad of union sentinels has 1 epic level person in it

the guard of a small town might be low level but in the city after a guard has been around a while he is going to get a lot of experience

Quote from: TristramEvans;806626So, wait, there's a logical inconsistency right there....you wont accept a change to spectres, and your arguments are based on D&D being a setting RAW, but you're altering Dragons now? Thats pretty blatant goalpost shifting.

I will accept a change to spectres. I WANT a change to spectres because the raw version is too powerful. I still think my criticism of the raw spectre is valid though.

No, it is not goalpost shifting, because my goal right now is to explain why my "If I was a dragon, I would like to kill..." comment does not mean that I as as person want to kill (as tuypo1 claimed). And the reason is that I was thinking of an evil dragon which is the kind I prefer.

The fact that my comment implicitly referred to an evil dragon, does not imply that the raw spectre is not too powerful.

If I claimed that some inconsistency was not there "because I only consider evil dragons", I would agree with you, but right now we are (sadly) not discussing the real subject (inconsistencies, implausibilities in the game), only whether I need mental treatment.

Quote from: TristramEvans;806606"D&D" is not a setting (outside of the cartoon, and even that was later revealed to be part of the Forgotten Realms). So why don't you pick A setting and then pick it apart for its logical inconsistencies?

Off Topic. But The cartoon was never set in the Forgotten Realms. People have later tried to say it was the Realms. But Sorry. No. Thats not "cannon" and is wrong anyhoo. Try again.

But yes. D&D is alot of different and oft semi-un-related things.

we are past the mental treatment now (which even if your not a sociopath or something you should look into for your whatever it is your problem is trust me good psychiatry did wonders for me) we are talking about how you porely articulated your thoughts

also i dont know tolkin that well but dident most of tolkins dragons stick to themselves for the most part

if you want a change to the specters next time you run a game (which you aparently dont do anymore) change the specters im not sure why you choose to focus on the specters so much but we each have our quirks and thats ok whats not ok is how much of an arsehole you are being about it

Quote from: TristramEvans;806606"D&D" is not a setting (outside of the cartoon, and even that was later revealed to be part of the Forgotten Realms). So why don't you pick A setting and then pick it apart for its logical inconsistencies?

Off Topic. But The cartoon was never set in the Forgotten Realms. People have later tried to say it was the Realms. But Sorry. No. Thats not "cannon" and is wrong anyhoo.

Quote from: tuypo1;806630no somebody will come who is a 36th level retired fighter (well not that powerful but it wont be 1 person it will be a heap of people although to be fair i tend to run pretty high level npcs all leaders of large groups are at least level 20 such as the head warmage at tarrth moorda and whatnot) i would think the city guard would be warriors not fighters although i suppose you would have a fighter lead each squad hell in union each squad of union sentinels has 1 epic level person in it

the guard of a small town might be low level but in the city after a guard has been around a while he is going to get a lot of experience

Killing an orc in the D&D game gives you 10 xp. Let us assume it gives the same to kill an ordinary man. You need 240,000 xp to reach level 9 as a fighter (warrior) in the D&D game, so you would need to kill 24,000 men in tavern brawls to reach level 9 as a city guard. That is quite a massacre :-)

you get xp for more then just killing there are rewards for completing a task

and i dont know about becmi but in 3.5 xp is scaled by your level and a bunch of other factors not a flat amount

plus a warrior and a fighter are not the same thing

and lastly why would they be fighting only orcs and why only level 1 orcs maybe those orcs have class levels

hell with your view of the world they would be fighting all sorts of things all day a squad of 6 level 1 human warriors takes out an ogre of level 1 warrior thats 150 xp each

and remember crs are based on the idea of 4 battles a day you can take on things of higher crs once a day as long as you dont do anything more that day

Quote from: TristramEvans;806604Um, that's not OD&D you're talking about.


This is OD&D

I see. I used OD&D to distinguish it from AD&D which has by now dropped the A and taken over the name D&D. I mean the Basic/Expert/Companion/Masters system.

Quote from: Omega;806633Off Topic. But The cartoon was never set in the Forgotten Realms. People have later tried to say it was the Realms. But Sorry. No. Thats not "cannon" and is wrong anyhoo. Try again.

Here's the characters from the cartoon talking with Elminster in a comicbook providing a primer to the Forgotten Realms ("The Grand Tour"). Presto tries out to be Elminster's apprentice.



Here's a scene from Baldur's Gate II where portraits of characters from the cartoon show can be seen. The game provides clues as to the character's ultimate fates:

on this matter ive got to agree with Arohtar im pretty sure most people refer to becmi as od&d and the original red box as the red box but maybe thats just me