Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 24, 2024, 09:37:56 AMAdd into the mix a group of heavily armed 'vagabond mercenaries' (ie - murderhobos) and the likelihood of such cut-throat dealings may end with the Cleric seeing his entire convent sacked and himself put to the sword.

Vikings looting and burning English monasteries is one thing, they didn't believe in the Christian god. But you'd have to be some kind of fuckwit to sack and destroy the temple of a god that demonstrably exists.*

* Doing it in the service of a rival god that is shielding you is obviously different.

Quote from: Grognard GM on March 24, 2024, 10:43:26 AMVikings looting and burning English monasteries is one thing, they didn't believe in the Christian god. But you'd have to be some kind of fuckwit to sack and destroy the temple of a god that demonstrably exists.*

* Doing it in the service of a rival god that is shielding you is obviously different.

Well, I would point out the price listed in the DMG is basically for 'non-believers' or those who aren't 'regular attendees'. Again, when dealing with a heavily armed band of potential sociopaths...I'm not sure that its a good idea to fleece them as heavily as Gygax implies.....

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 24, 2024, 10:48:49 AMWell, I would point out the price listed in the DMG is basically for 'non-believers' or those who aren't 'regular attendees'.

But they're not really un-believers, they just either back a different team, or don't want to get involved with all that nonsense.

If Evangelical Christians started performing miracles I'd either join a less pushy branch of Christianity, or just pay up for demonstrable effects (like visiting a Doctor.)

Quote from: Aglondir on March 24, 2024, 09:17:20 PM

...

At the height of our gonzo period, we had demonically posessed cars (Christine meets D&D) Elfquest elves flying X-Wings, and Marvel Supervillians running around Greyhawk (And the Forgotten Realms and Krynn)

We knew no limit...

Quote from: Jaeger on March 23, 2024, 03:47:20 PM
Getting people to "accept" the combat wheelchair in D&D is done for the same reasons a minority of deaf people reject the implants:

The "You must accept that I am 100% fine no matter how unrealistic it is" humiliation ritual.

No. You're not fine. You're fucking deaf. It's a life changing disability.

This is equating fantasy gaming with real-life behavior, like people complaining about evil acts done in game mean a player is really evil.

Someone can enjoy playing a kick-ass blind character in a fantasy game without that saying anything about their beliefs about blind people in real life. The same goes for deafness, chronic fatigue, or any other disability - including being in a wheelchair. I've only had one wheelchair-using character in my games - which was in a modern superpowers game - but I've had lots of characters with other disabilities in many genres - most commonly using GURPS or HERO System, but in other games as well.

If a handicapped person is offended over a character in one of my games, then they're welcome to tell me what they're feeling and why, but I'm not going to change my gaming simply because they're offended.

Quote from: Jaeger on March 23, 2024, 03:47:20 PM
And no, your PC with his combat wheelchair is not fine either, he literally cannot walk.

He's a retarded idiot, and his fellow PC's are deranged psychopaths' for taking him straight to his death.

David Johansen's example of the levitating mage pulled on a string was also effectively handicapped, but it sounds like he was a fun and effective character. I think wheelchair-using characters work fine in Fantasy HERO, for example. I think they could work fine in any other system as well, with some degree of house rules and rulings.

So characters can work in terms of game balance and playability, but it's an open question about whether and how such a character would fit in the context of the campaign and the world. For example, I wouldn't have a wheelchair in my current campaign setting -- the main culture doesn't even use wheels for transportation.

Quote from: Aglondir on March 24, 2024, 09:17:20 PM

Haha wtf

Quote from: Grognard GM on March 24, 2024, 12:45:24 PMIf Evangelical Christians started performing miracles I'd either join a less pushy branch of Christianity, or just pay up for demonstrable effects (like visiting a Doctor.)

It does go into other areas that are ignored by the 'Combat Wheelchair' asshats. It assumes no Clerics of ANY good-aligned gods go out and perform miracles to heal the crippled. No good works to feed the poor. They all just sit in their gold-and-gem, encrusted and beautifully painted cathedrals and let the rest of society live in squalor.

When the HKs and T-800s turn up who is staying behind to help him/her/xe/zi  with his/her/xem/zim wheelchair.

Quote from: Gagarth on March 25, 2024, 01:18:17 PM
When the HKs and T-800s turn up who is staying behind to help him/her/xe/zi  with his/her/xem/zim wheelchair.

Two white chicks (one in wheelchair), their pet black guy (possibly gay, definitely neutered - see comicbooks for the trope), and the white guy isn't human.

Bravo.


Wheels can't even be a computer tech that was allowed to be a resource drain because of superior intelligence (it's total war for survival, they'd go full Spartan,) has to be out in the field, yass Queen.

Imagine the pick-up truck scene from T-1, but there's a wheelchair ramp, and the Terminators wait patiently for her to be loaded.

Quote from: Omega on March 24, 2024, 01:29:50 AM
I'd lay good odds they are people like me who were born deaf and have never known any difference. Its way too easy to get into this mindset that just because you are used to not having this thing everyone else has, that having your lack of hearing "taken away" is wrong.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 24, 2024, 03:42:44 AM
I'm with omega on this one. I'd wager that most of those against curing deafness are those that have always been deaf, and have internalized it as a part of their identity to point they would reject a cure if offered. I can sympathize, honestly.

I'm sure it's a ton of hard work, taking almost a lifetime getting to the point you can make it without the secondary way humans interact with the whole world, and the primary one we use to interact with each other, and then to be offered a cure would make all that effort what? Wasted? It's a difficult position, even if the answer seems obvious from an outside perspective. It's hard to see from here what they'd be seeing as what they're giving up.

That applies way less to the children though. People advocating against the curing of deafness in children is a lot darker. Kids haven't spent a lifetime building those skills or that identity because they haven't spent a lifetime doing anything yet. So for someone to decide they should have to is a lot less understandable to me.

Excellent points.

This all makes far more sense when you consider the sunk costs of survival and ignorance of what's missing. Reminds me of how normie parents treated their mutant children for being 'additionally abled' in #XMen.

Quote from: Grognard GM on March 25, 2024, 01:23:03 PM

Quote from: Gagarth on March 25, 2024, 01:18:17 PM
When the HKs and T-800s turn up who is staying behind to help him/her/xe/zi  with his/her/xem/zim wheelchair.

Two white chicks (one in wheelchair), their pet black guy (possibly gay, definitely neutered - see comicbooks for the trope), and the white guy isn't human.

Bravo.


Wheels can't even be a computer tech that was allowed to be a resource drain because of superior intelligence (it's total war for survival, they'd go full Spartan,) has to be out in the field, yass Queen.

Imagine the pick-up truck scene from T-1, but there's a wheelchair ramp, and the Terminators wait patiently for her to be loaded.

Quote from: Gagarth on March 25, 2024, 01:18:17 PM
When the HKs and T-800s turn up who is staying behind to help him/her/xe/zi  with his/her/xem/zim wheelchair.

My character doesn't need to be able to outrun a T-800.  He just needs to be able to outrun the chick in the wheelchair.

Quote from: Gagarth on March 25, 2024, 01:18:17 PM
When the HKs and T-800s turn up who is staying behind to help him/her/xe/zi  with his/her/xem/zim wheelchair.

Why did they make a campfire out of a Terminator skull?
How did they make a campfire out of a Terminator skull? 

Quote from: jhkim on March 25, 2024, 01:33:46 AM

This is equating fantasy gaming with real-life behavior, like people complaining about evil acts done in game mean a player is really evil.

Someone can enjoy playing a kick-ass blind character in a fantasy game without that saying anything about their beliefs about blind people in real life. ...

So characters can work in terms of game balance and playability, but it's an open question about whether and how such a character would fit in the context of the campaign and the world. ...

LOLZ.

Your moral equivocations aren't fooling anyone.

The people pushing the "Combat Wheelchair" on the hobby? Their only goal is to get people to bend the knee.

And everyone here knows it.