In a world with animated suits of armor, wheel chairs seem suboptimal to me.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 21, 2024, 06:32:34 PM

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 21, 2024, 06:20:30 PM
We have been talking about Dungeons & Dragons and don't fucking pretend we haven't. So take your Goalpost Move and Motte & Bailey and cram it.

Like I said, the discourse is centered around 5e, and the power level of the setting means that that argument has power. I never made that argument because I don't care about 5e. I made a stronger argument, which applies not only in the 5e case, but to other settings as well. I'm not moving goal posts, and I'm not disagreeing with you. Calm down.

Greetings!

Yes, Zenoguy3, you are right. In the last thread we had here about the wheelchair BS, I made precisely the same argument. Magic makes the wheelchair argument stupid as fuck. EVEN MORE SO, just common sense physics and reality makes the wheelchair argument stupid and laughably pathetic. Adventurers doing Special Operations like missions absolutely precludes crippled morons in wheelchairs. Climbing ropes, sliding through tunnel drops, swimming across a river, going up and down stairs--climbing a simple tree--and much more that are the routine norm for adventurers--are simply beyond wheelchair morons. No magic required.

Adventuring is for strong, active, healthy, mobile people. Not crippled morons in wheelchairs.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Omega on March 19, 2024, 10:12:39 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 19, 2024, 06:46:58 PM

Characters in wheelchairs. I can kinda sorta understand.



But considering the culture war and wokie ideolgy driving the current push for "differently abled" characters, I'd probably just say "Fuck off" as well. At least I'd consider it a red flag that the player has a disruptive agenda inserted into their role playing.

Its a lack of imagination or thought. Its just fake diversity for fake diversity's sake.

Rare you ever see characters with a disability shown to actually be a disability. Extreme Ghostbusters had Garrett who was also wheelchair bound and
occasionally got knocked out of it and had to either crawl to it and get back in or fight from the ground. And there were places he just could not get to. Still my go-to for doing a handicapped adventurer right.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ghostbusters/images/9/9d/RadioactiveHazardSuitEGB22.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200109045401

I always saw Chip Chase not as forced diversity (because that wasn't such a big thing in the 80s outside of Affirmative Action), but someone who was limited physically, so he developed his mind to the point that he was a super-computer whiz.  Maybe his character was even Stephen Hawking-inspired.

I did have this one player in a GURPS campaign.  He took his Strength and Health down to sevem and learned levitation to the point where he could maintain it indefinantly so the party dragged him around on a string like a balloon.  He's the guy that got up to the hijinks where he and his familiar shape shifted into elephants to power a bug proofing spell on a swamp based settlement because a guy with a seven health does not want to get exposed to malaria.

Quote from: David Johansen on March 21, 2024, 10:14:08 PMHe's the guy that got up to the hijinks where he and his familiar shape shifted into elephants to power a bug proofing spell on a swamp based settlement because a guy with a seven health does not want to get exposed to malaria.

I bet he's never forgotten that game.

Quote from: David Johansen on March 21, 2024, 10:14:08 PM
I did have this one player in a GURPS campaign.  He took his Strength and Health down to sevem and learned levitation to the point where he could maintain it indefinantly so the party dragged him around on a string like a balloon.  He's the guy that got up to the hijinks where he and his familiar shape shifted into elephants to power a bug proofing spell on a swamp based settlement because a guy with a seven health does not want to get exposed to malaria.

That sounds awesome.

Quote from: yosemitemike on March 21, 2024, 03:06:18 AM
For me, the oddest argument in all of this is that the combat wheelchairs would be relevant because there would be people who would not want to be cured even if there was magical available to cure them easily.  Their rationale for this usually amounts to vague gassing on identity and calling people ableist.  I don't believe this for a single fucking second.  Even if they could walk again or regain their eyesight by having someone wave a holy symbol at them and chant for a few seconds, they would choose to remain as they are?  Bullshit.  No one believes that.

You'd think that, but there is a sizable chunk of the deaf community (I hate using the word community but it is what it is) that don't want deafness cured. They actively fight against any advances in curing their condition and ostracize and bully those deaf people who get hearing implants.

Quote from: jhkim on March 21, 2024, 05:39:17 PM

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 20, 2024, 04:37:12 AM
My 5E group actually ran through that moronic adventure created for a 'wheelchair accessible dungeon' (Candlekeep Mysteries, IIRC) and it was just as retarded as you would imagine. One of our players, a woke twat who played the exact same grumpy/bitchy character every single time, was friends on Twitter with the writer. The writer, btw, was not wheelchair bound and her 'disability' was self-diagnosed.

In reply #47, you replied to this saying that the author was a trans man. But you were talking about a different person than the post you replied to.

Kretchmer is the designer of the scenario "The Canopic Being" in Candlekeep Mysteries, published by WotC. There are no wheelchairs in the scenario. The dungeon does have ramps like real-life Egyptian tombs do, and was evidently inspired by the author's wheelchair use, but as published it is entered via a ladder so it isn't wheelchair accessible.

Thompson is the designer of the self-published homebrew "Combat Wheelchair". As far as I can tell, Thompson has never written for WotC.

Oh.

Well in that case give it time.

Quote from: Shalashashka on March 22, 2024, 11:25:23 AM
You'd think that, but there is a sizable chunk of the deaf community (I hate using the word community but it is what it is) that don't want deafness cured. They actively fight against any advances in curing their condition and ostracize and bully those deaf people who get hearing implants.

It's partly because their shared language is fundamental in keeping their community together. And while other disabled folks share common experience, they don't necessarily share a common language.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 22, 2024, 04:15:43 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 21, 2024, 05:39:17 PM

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 20, 2024, 04:37:12 AM
My 5E group actually ran through that moronic adventure created for a 'wheelchair accessible dungeon' (Candlekeep Mysteries, IIRC) and it was just as retarded as you would imagine. One of our players, a woke twat who played the exact same grumpy/bitchy character every single time, was friends on Twitter with the writer. The writer, btw, was not wheelchair bound and her 'disability' was self-diagnosed.

In reply #47, you replied to this saying that the author was a trans man. But you were talking about a different person than the post you replied to.

Kretchmer is the designer of the scenario "The Canopic Being" in Candlekeep Mysteries, published by WotC. There are no wheelchairs in the scenario. The dungeon does have ramps like real-life Egyptian tombs do, and was evidently inspired by the author's wheelchair use, but as published it is entered via a ladder so it isn't wheelchair accessible.

Thompson is the designer of the self-published homebrew "Combat Wheelchair". As far as I can tell, Thompson has never written for WotC.

Oh.

Well in that case give it time.

Quote from: Shalashashka on March 22, 2024, 11:25:23 AM
You'd think that, but there is a sizable chunk of the deaf community (I hate using the word community but it is what it is) that don't want deafness cured. They actively fight against any advances in curing their condition and ostracize and bully those deaf people who get hearing implants.

It's partly because their shared language is fundamental in keeping their community together. And while other disabled folks share common experience, they don't necessarily share a common language.

That's an interesting insight I hadn't considered. (I had heard , no pun intended, about the deaf activists who oppose being "cured")

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 22, 2024, 04:59:00 PM

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 22, 2024, 04:15:43 PM

Quote from: Shalashashka on March 22, 2024, 11:25:23 AM
You'd think that, but there is a sizable chunk of the deaf community (I hate using the word community but it is what it is) that don't want deafness cured. They actively fight against any advances in curing their condition and ostracize and bully those deaf people who get hearing implants.

It's partly because their shared language is fundamental in keeping their community together. And while other disabled folks share common experience, they don't necessarily share a common language.

That's an interesting insight I hadn't considered. (I had heard , no pun intended, about the deaf activists who oppose being "cured")

This was dramatized in "Children of a Lesser God" (1986) - so it's been around for a while as an issue, though I don't know how real the portrayal is. (The book is supposedly based on a true story, but I don't know the real life basis.) A particular controversial issue is deaf parents who want their children to be deaf so that they can talk to their kids natively, rather than having their children learn to speak from strangers.

Quote from: jhkim on March 22, 2024, 07:06:14 PM
This was dramatized in "Children of a Lesser God" (1986) - so it's been around for a while as an issue, though I don't know how real the portrayal is. (The book is supposedly based on a true story, but I don't know the real life basis.) A particular controversial issue is deaf parents who want their children to be deaf so that they can talk to their kids natively, rather than having their children learn to speak from strangers.

Almost every person on Earth can hear, and speaks with their mouth. Parents that want to hold their children back by giving them hurdles to success in life are assholes. Worse, some of that community act like the Amish, not wanting them to join the English.

For every one person out of 10 who wants to remain with their disability (even that number is probably too high imo). The rest of us like me want to be cured.

If benevolent aliens landed and agree to cure blindness, deafness etc. the ones that want to keep their disability would trampled and crushed under the mob rushing to be cured. Most who want to keep it are satisfied with what they have though don't speak for all of us. Or worse White Knighters who have none and speak for people like me.

The whole premise boggles my mind for a fantasy adventure.  I have seen disabilities in other games being desired, but those were all superhero games where compensating powers existed at the start and might even be a back story/motivation for the PC.

How does a peasant even acquire a magic device like that?  None of the other starting characters get free magic items.  Are equipment saves still a thing in 5e?
   

Quote from: Cathode Ray on March 21, 2024, 08:58:19 PM
I always saw Chip Chase not as forced diversity (because that wasn't such a big thing in the 80s outside of Affirmative Action), but someone who was limited physically, so he developed his mind to the point that he was a super-computer whiz.  Maybe his character was even Stephen Hawking-inspired.

I just watched that episode the other day with my kids, actually. 80s cartoons ALWAYS had some kid in a wheelchair with glasses who was some sort of super nerd, usually worked with computers. There was no "forced diversity," it was just shorthand for "hyper-capable teenager who is an inexplicable expert." It's like Daredevil being fucking blind yet one of the most skilled HtH combatants in the Marvel universe...he's blind so he HAS TO BE better at something he probably should suck at.

Also, if Chip was somehow transported to the D&D world and became a magic-user, he'd just get some levitation spell or a magic carpet to fly around on. He's not a fucking dunce so wouldn't have a ludicrously retarded "combat wheelchair".

Quote from: Brad on March 23, 2024, 11:26:46 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on March 21, 2024, 08:58:19 PM
I always saw Chip Chase not as forced diversity (because that wasn't such a big thing in the 80s outside of Affirmative Action), but someone who was limited physically, so he developed his mind to the point that he was a super-computer whiz.  Maybe his character was even Stephen Hawking-inspired.

I just watched that episode the other day with my kids, actually. 80s cartoons ALWAYS had some kid in a wheelchair with glasses who was some sort of super nerd, usually worked with computers. There was no "forced diversity," it was just shorthand for "hyper-capable teenager who is an inexplicable expert." It's like Daredevil being fucking blind yet one of the most skilled HtH combatants in the Marvel universe...he's blind so he HAS TO BE better at something he probably should suck at.

Also, if Chip was somehow transported to the D&D world and became a magic-user, he'd just get some levitation spell or a magic carpet to fly around on. He's not a fucking dunce so wouldn't have a ludicrously retarded "combat wheelchair".

I thought that the Autobots should have made Chip some kind of mecha-suit he could drive around in. Too bad he dissappeared after season 2...