Apparently the fantasy wheelchair canard is making the rounds again. Got brought up in this video by a guy I like that doesn't talk about TTRPGs that much, The Dragons Treasure - Let's Talk About Fantasy Wheelchairs. This One is Personal.

He pretty much hits all the basics, but there's hardly anything new to say on the topic. He's got a good personal story though. Definitely demonstrates, to me at least, that those whining about dungeons not being ADA compliant don't care about disabled people as anything other than tokens.

As for me, I think the whole conversation is pointless, cause the people arguing for the fantasy wheelchair garbage don't actually care about fantasy wheelchairs or anything else about TTRPGs in the first place. They just want control over the hobby and those playing, and are just trying to find ways of coercing people to bend the knee to them. It's good to point out that their arguments are bad, but it matters more to point out that their arguments aren't about what they say they're about.

I have played with people on wheelchairs.

That player never, ever played a character that couldn't walk. Not once.

I understand its not really a sample size, but I've seen the same with other similar cases. People that are fat never play an obese character. People that are shy want to play an outgoing silver tongue type. People that are meek and short want to play a big and strong warrior.

And again, none of those experiences are an accurate sample size. But, on my personal experience, people that have a limitation never play a character with said limitation. That is, the only players that I've seen wanting to play, say, a blind character are not blind themselves.

These people who can only think in terms of handicapped people=wheelchair are cancers on our society.  They lack imagination and creative insight.

Quote from: Cipher on March 19, 2024, 02:30:26 PM
I have played with people on wheelchairs.

That player never, ever played a character that couldn't walk. Not once.

I understand its not really a sample size, but I've seen the same with other similar cases. People that are fat never play an obese character. People that are shy want to play an outgoing silver tongue type. People that are meek and short want to play a big and strong warrior.

And again, none of those experiences are an accurate sample size. But, on my personal experience, people that have a limitation never play a character with said limitation. That is, the only players that I've seen wanting to play, say, a blind character are not blind themselves.

I can certainly imagine that. That's the kind of thing that proves to me that hte people complaining about all this don't actually care about disabled people.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 19, 2024, 03:27:43 PM
I can certainly imagine that. That's the kind of thing that proves to me that hte people complaining about all this don't actually care about disabled people.

They care about using people as props, that's about it.

Stupidity at its worse.  None of the dungeons I have ever run are wheelchair accessible and I am sure most are not. 

I will not allow that stupidity (Wheelchair characters) in games I run.  Period.

Quote from: Brad on March 19, 2024, 03:35:14 PM

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on March 19, 2024, 03:27:43 PM
I can certainly imagine that. That's the kind of thing that proves to me that hte people complaining about all this don't actually care about disabled people.

They care about using people as props, that's about it.

Yep it's weaponized compassion.

I've played with disabled players and I've had disabled characters (fighter was steamrolled by an Ent like monster in a system that has nasty crit tables and lost use of his legs). In each case we gamed like normal adults who know the difference between fiction and reality, no virtues were signaled, and we somehow managed to avoid becoming fascists.

Quote from: rytrasmi on March 19, 2024, 04:21:04 PM
In each case we gamed like normal adults who know the difference between fiction and reality, no virtues were signaled, and we somehow managed to avoid becoming fascists.

Inconceivable

Quote from: rytrasmi on March 19, 2024, 04:21:04 PM
I've played with disabled players and I've had disabled characters (fighter was steamrolled by an Ent like monster in a system that has nasty crit tables and lost use of his legs). In each case we gamed like normal adults who know the difference between fiction and reality, no virtues were signaled, and we somehow managed to avoid becoming fascists.

I'm not clear what constitutes fascism in this context. Like you, rystrami, I've had disabled players and disabled characters. Having played a lot of GURPS and HERO System, it's been not uncommon for there to be disabilities in my games - usually minor. I had a wheelchair-using character in a superhero game who could overcome that with his superpowers, but never had any wheelchair users in medieval fantasy.

I think it should be up to the personal choice of the group. I don't think wheelchair-using characters should be forced into anyone's game -- but conversely, if a group wants to have a game with a wheelchair-using character, that's their choice.

I'm sorry to hear about the broken arm and subsequent health issues that the video creator (The Dragon's Treasure) talked about, and he's welcome to game however he wants -- but he doesn't get to dictate to anyone else how they play their games. If some group has fun with a wheelchair-using character, that's their choice - and his being offended doesn't mean he can tell them how to play.

Quote from: Cipher on March 19, 2024, 02:30:26 PM
I have played with people on wheelchairs.

That player never, ever played a character that couldn't walk. Not once.

I understand its not really a sample size, but I've seen the same with other similar cases. People that are fat never play an obese character. People that are shy want to play an outgoing silver tongue type. People that are meek and short want to play a big and strong warrior.

I've seen it go either way, partly based on personality and partly based on what the game supports. I've seen a fair number of nerdy, weak players who want to play a nerdy, weak wizard rather than a beefy fighter. I think there being an supported option for a powerful nerdy, weak wizard is appealing to those players. If the game has no magic or equivalent, the players won't choose such a character.

Similarly, I've often seen shy players who want to play more the strong, silent actiony types rather than a bard or similar.

That said, I've also seen it go the other way and had weak players who wanted to play beefy fighters and similar.

Don't worry folks, the white saviors of the coast will remove regenerate from the game &/or state it specifically can't make the blind see, fix dumbness, muteness and especially wheelchair bound pcs.  Wish as well won't work on that.  If you get reincarnated you are still deaf, dumb, blind, crippled whatever.

The whole concept in a game with magical healing and wish is pointless.  Its for pointless virtue signaling, to complain and to get a deal to write a module and get some residuals.  I've been done with white saviors of the coast for a while now, so no skin of my teeth.  I'm waiting for WotC to fire another 20% of its staff and I'm doing dark rituals at the druid circle wishing for WotC's demise.

My god the cost of a magical artifact for a flying chair would be astronomical compared to a simple heal or regenerate spell.  A lot of us like to run a fantasy world that makes sense but this makes no sense.

This insanity cropped back up on Twitter a few days ago and the stupidity never got less. What is the point of having magical healing spells in 1E Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (for example) if they're incapable of correcting disability? Way too many morons, who don't know the rules, think it requires the spell Regenerate to heal a PC whose had their back broken, when all it does is either reattach or regrow a severed limb. If you're in a wheelchair cause you got your legs lopped off, okay. But otherwise, every single damn condition can be cured by either a 1st lvl Paladin/5th lvl Cleric/3rd lvl Druid (Cure Disease), 1st lvl Paladin/1st lvl Cleric/2nd lvl Druid (Lay on Hands/Cure Light Wounds), 3rd lvl Druid/5th lvl Cleric (Cure Disease) 3rd lvl Druid/7th lvl Cleric (Neutralize Poison), 5th lvl Cleric/6th lvl Druid/5th lvl Mage/8th lvl Illusionist (Dispel Magic), or a 5th lvl Cleric/7th lvl Mage (Remove Curse). 

Quote from: GhostNinja on March 19, 2024, 03:55:44 PM
Stupidity at its worse.  None of the dungeons I have ever run are wheelchair accessible and I am sure most are not. 

Most dungeons aren't Adventurer accessible. That's kinda the point.

QuoteI will not allow that stupidity (Wheelchair characters) in games I run.  Period.

Characters in wheelchairs. I can kinda sorta understand.



But considering the culture war and wokie ideolgy driving the current push for "differently abled" characters, I'd probably just say "Fuck off" as well. At least I'd consider it a red flag that the player has a disruptive agenda inserted into their role playing.

Quote from: jhkim on March 19, 2024, 04:57:24 PM
I think it should be up to the personal choice of the group. I don't think wheelchair-using characters should be forced into anyone's game -- but conversely, if a group wants to have a game with a wheelchair-using character, that's their choice.

I'm sorry to hear about the broken arm and subsequent health issues that the video creator (The Dragon's Treasure) talked about, and he's welcome to game however he wants -- but he doesn't get to dictate to anyone else how they play their games. If some group has fun with a wheelchair-using character, that's their choice - and his being offended doesn't mean he can tell them how to play.

What the Teaman is arguing against is exactly that people are demanding that people include things in their games. He's fed up with people that are making such demands, and with those that, in his opinion, spinelessly accommodate them to keep the peace.

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 19, 2024, 05:54:00 PM
This insanity cropped back up on Twitter a few days ago and the stupidity never got less. What is the point of having magical healing spells in 1E Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (for example) if they're incapable of correcting disability? Way too many morons, who don't know the rules, think it requires the spell Regenerate to heal a PC whose had their back broken, when all it does is either reattach or regrow a severed limb. If you're in a wheelchair cause you got your legs lopped off, okay. But otherwise, every single damn condition can be cured by either a 1st lvl Paladin/5th lvl Cleric/3rd lvl Druid (Cure Disease), 1st lvl Paladin/1st lvl Cleric/2nd lvl Druid (Lay on Hands/Cure Light Wounds), 3rd lvl Druid/5th lvl Cleric (Cure Disease) 3rd lvl Druid/7th lvl Cleric (Neutralize Poison), 5th lvl Cleric/6th lvl Druid/5th lvl Mage/8th lvl Illusionist (Dispel Magic), or a 5th lvl Cleric/7th lvl Mage (Remove Curse).

Besides, dungeons are generally filled with things that are EVIL.

Why in the fuck would someone whose EVIL, design a dungeon with wheelchair access? 

Unless they trapped the access ramps with pits filled with acid or spikes, then that's some pretty EVIL shit!