A number of city-oriented classes showing up in some WotC products prompted me to think about whether fantasy RPG cities are big enough and numerous enough to engender such things. I'm thinking of the Urban Ranger and Urban Druid, and the Vigilante, Scar Enforcer, and Urban Soul.

I'm just curious as to whether I'm alone in my feeling that there just aren't enough cities of large enough size in any given setting to cause such specialized classes to come about. In my own homebrew, I've always assumed there are some cities with several million people living in them (I rationalize that magic, arcane and divine, makes them viable). I've noticed that in many published settings that the largest metropolises can have a population of less than 100,000, and there may be only one or two cities even approaching that size in the whole setting. Since most towns or settlements would be much smaller, I just can't see entire urban classes, especially druids and rangers, coming into being in such a low-population-density setting.

Actually, I don't really have a problem with them myself. My setting can support such things. I guess I'm just curious as to how they can be rationalized in D&D, which seems to assume relatively low populations. This is more of a matter for discussion which might generate some campaign setting ideas.

You can't think in modern terms.  You really need to nock off a zero or two from your thinking when your doing fantasy.  Population densities much lower.  Hell even the FR has only 1 or 2 cities with populations anywere's near 1 million.

And if you looked at the worlds most populous cities I think you would see that population would drop sharply after the top 5-10 cities.

Edit: Hmmmm...I just looked up the worlds most populous cities and may have to adjust the numbers.  Perhaps a big drop after the top 30 cities.

I get that aspect of it, but I guess where my suspension of disbelief weakens is when we see companies put out material like the Vigilante, from WotC's Complete Adventurer. It's essentially a "Batman" type of character. I just don't see cities with low populations like the ones we're talking about spawning such a thing. It's like if Batman patrolled Mayberry.

One thing is that a city doesn't necessarilly need a huge amount of native citizens. I read somewhere that London's population doubles in daytime with all the people working there but living elsewhere.

In a fantasy city with only 500k citizens might at any point have double that number passing through, living there only for a week or two before going back home to Ass-Backward Valley.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonA number of city-oriented classes showing up in some WotC products prompted me to think about whether fantasy RPG cities are big enough and numerous enough to engender such things. I'm thinking of the Urban Ranger and Urban Druid, and the Vigilante, Scar Enforcer, and Urban Soul.

I'm just curious as to whether I'm alone in my feeling that there just aren't enough cities of large enough size in any given setting to cause such specialized classes to come about.

I have always used the examples you have given as a unique situation kind of thing. You are absolutely right when you say that realism (for lack of a better term) is compromised with the existence of some of these classes in terms of the size of the population that some fantasy cities hold.

Thats why I view these classes as a one of a kind situation. They sometimes work in my campaigns as mysterious npcs or if the players wish it as an avenue to branch into something different in their characters career/lifestyle.

Off course I could very well just ignore these classes entirely, but I feel some of them are interesting enough to adopt into my campaign, although these classes/individuals would be extremely rare - they might even be the only ones of their kind - they do add an exotic flavour to the whole campaign esp when it comes to the bigger cities. Where secrets are buried and everyone has a story to tell (maybe)

Regards,
David R

I like them too, so that's what got me to thinking about them. In my own campaign world, there are very large cities (not a lot, but some), with millions of inhabitants, so such concepts can work there. It's just that most published settings I'm familiar with have a different idea about what constitutes a metropolis than I do. I understand why the cities are so small, I was just wondering how some of these character concepts were rationalized by others.

Speaking of cities - if I was going to run my next campaign anywhere but Dusk, I think I'd choose Ravnica.  Still might make for an interesting planeshift - think medieval Coruscant with more magic than Netheril.

I'm not familiar with Ravnica.

Ravnica is the setting for the current Magic block. It's a planet that's all covered in city, with said city ruled by ten guilds (each corresponding to a pair of MtG colors).

Magic block? I don't know what that is, either.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonMagic block? I don't know what that is, either.

A block in Magic the Gathering consists of three expansions (one big and two small) coming out over the course of a year. The most common Magic format, Standard, allows cards from the current block, the one before it, plus the latest "core" set. A single block is generally set in one world, and explores different aspects of the game. The over-arching theme for the Ravnica block, for example, is multi-colored cards. Previous blocks have focused on:

• Legendary things (that is, things you can only have one copy of at a time), and Spirits vs. Mortals. (Kamigawa block, inspired by Japan)
• Artifacts (Mirrodin block)
• Creature types (Onslaught block)
• Graveyard interactions (Odyssey block)
• Multi-color cards (Invasion block)

Yes, they had another multi-color block five years ago, but they're doing things a little differently this time around.

Quote from: DackeA block in Magic the Gathering consists of three expansions (one big and two small) coming out over the course of a year. The most common Magic format, Standard, allows cards from the current block, the one before it, plus the latest "core" set. A single block is generally set in one world, and explores different aspects of the game. The over-arching theme for the Ravnica block, for example, is multi-colored cards. Previous blocks have focused on:

• Legendary things (that is, things you can only have one copy of at a time), and Spirits vs. Mortals. (Kamigawa block, inspired by Japan)
• Artifacts (Mirrodin block)
• Creature types (Onslaught block)
• Graveyard interactions (Odyssey block)
• Multi-color cards (Invasion block)

Yes, they had another multi-color block five years ago, but they're doing things a little differently this time around.

Wow. I remember when Magic used to be understandable. :emot-geno:

Okay, Ravnica sounds like the kind of city that would be really cool to set a campaign in. If I'm not mistaken MtG is known for it's really good artwork, right? So is there any art of the city online ? I would really like to see what this city looks likes

Regards,
David R

Check www.wizards.com/magic for artwork. You can find a great deal of art in the "Magic Arcana" archives (and in some of the other articles as well, but looking through Arcana will give you the most art for your time, including some wallpapers), and I think if you look around you can find a graphical spoiler of the recent sets (that is, pictures of all the cards).

Oh, and for general city images, the land cards in the set are pretty good.

Thanks. Some of the pieces have given me some weird avenues I want to explore. My poor players

Regards,
David R