Quote from: joewolzTo most hard core computer gamers, WE ARE the dinosaurs, man.

Rawr, sucka!
Actually, if I can play a dinosaur ninja, it's all good.

I think NWN2 has to compete with things like World of Warcraft, and I can't argue with the reviewer about which one the average player is going to prefer.

Rather than dismiss the review, or think it doesn't apply to tabletop games, it's VERY worthwhile to think about.  Even if you think D&D is the pinnacle of tabletop RPGs, it's certainly not beyond improving.  I've taken issue with some of the Forge games for not being games  (if you'll excuse the pun -- they're Forgeries ), but the gameplay in D&D as supported by the actual rules might not encourage the type of play all people want to see.

Worth thinking about some more...

Dinosaur Ninja? Is that a Senzar reference?

Quote from: J ArcaneWell, in terms of P:T, that one used 2nd Ed rules, right?  2nd Ed rules really aren't that crunchy at all when you've got a computer handling the rules for you.

I'm pretty sure it has little to do with the ruleset and more to do with the specific story. The guess about how far he played before he wrote his review is what I'd go with too.

He's not reviewing what you can do NWN2 by adding 3rd party. He's reviewing the [likely the first portion] of the story it shipped with.  That said I happen to think Stuart is really onto something.....because it's the same damn thing I've been saying for....ummm, a long time?

Quote from: kregmosieryou know, the good thing about this is at least the reviewer doesn't blame it for not being Narrativist. .

This is really my point.  It's as if the standard crew of D&D bashers (which used to include myself) wrote the review.  It was the exact same argument we've all seen a thousand times.  The thing I felt was odd was that the end result wasn't to suggest something even more construction-set like (something like FUDGE), but to do a 180 and more or less head towards more rigid stories with no real human input.

Quote from: kregmosierregardless, the interview has been pulled/rescinded, so i'm not sure if that's supposed to make PA look good for pointing out the stupidity of it, or 1UP/GfW look like asses for not sticking to their guns.

Well, one of the reasons I don't bother reading PA very much is that they're in the business of making themselves look cool and making sure everyone knows about it.

As for the review itself, it was certainly pulled for advertising reasons.  The reviewer obviously thought he was writing a typical "bash the easy target" piece.

Quote from: SosthenesDinosaur Ninja? Is that a Senzar reference?

Exalted would have been my first guess.

Quote from: GabrielWell, one of the reasons I don't bother reading PA very much is that they're in the business of making themselves look cool and making sure everyone knows about it.

So very, very agreed.

QuoteThis is really my point. It's as if the standard crew of D&D bashers (which used to include myself) wrote the review. It was the exact same argument we've all seen a thousand times. The thing I felt was odd was that the end result wasn't to suggest something even more construction-set like (something like FUDGE), but to do a 180 and more or less head towards more rigid stories with no real human input.

Actually, I think this part could be explained by the corrupting influence of Japanese RPGs.

I loved Dragon Quest 5, but goddamn sometimes I wish the Japanese had never been given that copy of Wizardry so long ago.

In a way, JRPGs are by and large to me as Forge games are to Pundit:  A horrible plague that is threatening to corrupt or drown out other REAL RPGs.

Um.. should this thread not be in "Electronic Games"?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditUm.. should this thread not be in "Electronic Games"?

RPGPundit

I intentionally put it in the pen and paper section because I felt the review was also saying things about non-electronic RPGs.  As I've already said, the anti-D&D rants on the electronic front are identical to those on the pen & paper front.

For years, I've heard the conventional wisdom about how the advantage of RPGs is unlimited creativity, the ability to create your own stories, and the toolkit nature of play.  This reviewer would willingly toss all that for what I'd perceive as a linear storyline and less customization.  While his view is directed toward electronic games, there's more than enough implication the judgement would be the same for pen & paper games, because he explicitly states his view that toolkit pen and paper D&D play is a relic of the past best left FAR behind in the dust.