In history, kings were assumed to have super kingdom ruling powers granted directly by god. They were, in some stories, even linked to the land to some extent.
In the D&D setting Birthright the rulers had such kingdom ruling powers from their ancestors being exposed to dying gods.
Has anyone ever encountered other cool ideas for how someone can come to possess 'rulership powers'?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;877107Has anyone ever encountered other cool ideas for how someone can come to possess 'rulership powers'?
Selection by a magical herd animal.
- Well there is the old sword in the stone wheeze.
- Magical or special bloodline.
- Defeating all rivals.
- Succeeding in a quest.
- Marrying the king's daughter or the Amazon Queen.
- Having the glass slipper fit your foot.
Pact with nature:
Bury the would-be-king in the ground. Dig him up three days later. Is he still alive? King!
Possessed by aliens/demons:
Some weird looking bottle of thick black slime. Would-be-king drinks it. Does he shrivel and die and melt all over the stairs? Or does he get visibly stronger and slightly larger with a vague light behind his eyes (like all other kings have)? King!
Feed would-be-king to the thing in the palace basement. When he comes out the back end... King!
Little black rock that fell from the sky gets put up the backside of would-be-king. After a week of fever and changes... King!
Secret knowledge:
Would be king is given sacred words of power to access the ancient machines in the caves under the castle, they teach him everything and he comes back King!
Quote from: Bren;877126Selection by a magical herd animal.
(http://i.imgur.com/kY0vhFB.jpg)
Quote from: SimlasaFeed would-be-king to the thing in the palace basement. When he comes out the back end... King!
I LOLed.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;877129(http://i.imgur.com/kY0vhFB.jpg)
Good. I worry sometimes that I am not obvious enough.
The King or Queen is chosen by a council of electors, each of whom is a representative of one of the Guilds of Wizardry. The Guilds exact dues from members not in monetary form, but in magic, and a cut from each members' dues is passed to the Crown, to be used to power massive magical effects that can shape the entire land.
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Whenever a King or Queen dies their ghost rises after the rites of mourning are performed. The ghost will track down their chosen successor, bestow the powers of the Crown on them, and serve them for a year and a day as their closest and most trusted advisor. If the new monarch dies during that time, they don't get to come back as a ghost - that's the last secret the old monarch imparts, and they will be the ones who pick a new leader if your reign ended early.
If you want to conquer this nation, you must not only kill its ruler, but also possess suitable magic to compel them to do your bidding when you rise. Even then, you may have a hard time; whilst magic can force them to pick you as their successor and serve out their term, and even compel them to obey your direct orders, it can't make them pretend to do so gladly: you may command their actions, but not their bearing. Many an usurper's reign has been ended prematurely by loyal friends and advisors of the previous ruler, who couldn't bear to see their late liege enslaved in such a fashion.
Conversely, if a ghost-monarch heartily endorses and approves of how their successor is doing, then they can be a new ruler's best resource. A population which hasn't yet been won over by its new King or Queen can have its morale markedly improved if a well-loved dead leader can be prevailed on to speak in support of the new boss.
Have a watery tart throw swords at people.
Kill the current ruler in battle. (Riddick)
Be a dummy who is willing to be a tool for hidden wealthy powers (George W. Bush. Having a wealthy and influential father helps here.)
Buy your way into power while stoking the fears of idiots. (Trump)
Those with the most wattage of magical or psychic power becomes king.
Genetic manipulation creates the Kwisatz Haderach. (Dune)
Go through the Academy and aliens give you a Lens.
Everyone else dies and you're the last man alive.
Reprogram the computers to swing the vote your way.
Gathering a group of followers and leading them into either taking over an existing realm, or building a new one in the wilderness.
The royal seal of office is no mere token - it's a powerful artifact bound to the earth of the nation so intimately that were it ever destroyed, the very landscape itself would be devastated. Whoever holds the seal rules the nation.
Assassination attempts and other acts of violence against the monarch are extremely rare, and even in the cases of the most unpopular King or Queen would-be assassins are despised by all and are typically torn to bits by the mob, for to attack the ruler is to risk breaking the seal and destroying all of us.
Succession by thievery, however, is substantially more common in the annals of history.
Might go with the Tibetan Buddhist option: the True Monarch is the reincarnation of the preceding one. There are standard signs and portents commonly acknowledged to point out the right child, who is then whisked away and raised to rule by a special Order dedicated to the task. The realm is run by caretakers in the meantime.
Another option - what Robert Heinlein did in Glory Road: a cybernetic dingus with the memories and personalities of all the previous incumbents, which every new monarch absorbs in order to gain their experience and knowledge, and to which he or she in turn adds their own.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;877107In history, kings were assumed to have super kingdom ruling powers granted directly by god. They were, in some stories, even linked to the land to some extent.
In the D&D setting Birthright the rulers had such kingdom ruling powers from their ancestors being exposed to dying gods.
Has anyone ever encountered other cool ideas for how someone can come to possess 'rulership powers'?
I can't accept this as a premise.
Historically, there's been a tension between "legitimacy", "power", and "effectiveness", and questions of which flowed from which, and which might be granted or mediated by god (or a god's representative such as the Pope or a prophet). Perhaps read
Richard II or the Iliad for a review.
The Divine Right of Kings per se was a codification of certain ideas in the early modern period--although granted they had roots stretching back millenia, and parallels in non-European contexts such as "The Mandate of Heaven".
Historically, some rulers claimed to be literally (the children of) gods either directly or by descent. Example: the emperors of Japan are all descended from the sun goddess. Some claimed to be literally divine by some sort of mystical mechanism it would seem. Julius Caesar claimed to be a descendant of Venus, but I think the Roman Emperors were generally deified after death more on general principle. The Pharaohs of Egypt were literally gods during their lifetime, but I don't think it was by descent unless each new dynasty made up a genealogy.
Rulers in the Judeo-Christian tradition weren't divine themselves but they generally did have God's sanction, starting with Saul & David, and generally following the model which accepted descent as the default form of legitimacy from the previous ruler, but also allowing for the principle of intervention by holy men such as Samuel or various Popes. This was
generally on the overt grounds of upholding God's law, but when it came to the replacement of the Merovingian dynasty by Pippin I, the Pope simply gave holy sanction to the argument that the person who exercised actual power ought also to have the legal title. Almost needless to say, Pippin was also calling in a favor in exchange for rescuing Rome from the Lombards.
However it was very, very common for cultures to
not replace kings even when evidence of loss of divine mandate was pretty obvious in terms of facts on the ground. Socially of course this can be seen as the reason for divine mandate in the first place--it helps kings through rough patches and provides an argument for expansion of powers. So, how do kings get and hold "divine power"?
In addition to claiming a sort of legendary ancestry, the Merovingians were known for their long lustrous hair. Yeah, they were sort of the Breck kings. As time went by, the various Christian rulers of Europe also sought and maintained divine favor by building/endowing cathedrals and monasteries, fighting heresy, collecting saints' relics (gotta catch 'em all!), and engaging in Crusades to protect pilgrims' access to the Holy Land--and/or maintain Christian control of Jerusalem itself.
There are certainly parallels in other religions. Muslim rulers have also wanted to control Jerusalem (and of course Mecca). Everybody builds temples to the gods, and/or construct mausoleums for themselves during their lifetimes that will demonstrate their eventual spiritual awesomeness.
Quote from: Simlasa;877128Little black rock that fell from the sky gets put up the backside of would-be-king. After a week of fever and changes... King!
This just made me laugh so that I coughed beer trough my nose.
"Wow, a rock just fell from the sky. I´ll bet, if we put it up that guys arse, he´ll make a great king!"
Quote from: Arminius;877286Everybody builds temples to the gods, and/or construct mausoleums for themselves during their lifetimes that will demonstrate their eventual spiritual awesomeness.
Which means a great method of selection would be the winner of a build-off becomes king. Whoever can put together the most impressive design along with the money, resources, man-power, and organization sufficient to get it built in the allotted time (say 1 year) wins.
It bears a sort of resemblance to potlach culture of the Pacific Northwest since the builder has to be wealthy enough to fund the construction himself or influential and persuasive enough to get other people to volunteer their wealth and labor to his project.
All hail the Supreme Architect! Long may the Builder reign!
Quote from: zx81;877289This just made me laugh so that I coughed beer trough my nose.
"Wow, a rock just fell from the sky. I´ll bet, if we put it up that guys arse, he´ll make a great king!"
It's like a riff on premise of The Gods Must be Crazy.
"Divine Right" is actually a small portion of historical basis of kingship.
The most fundamental is "I'm the meanest fucker around."
Next comes "I've got the biggest fucking army around."
In Beowulf you became a great "lord" by being a mighty warrior, charismatic enough to attract followers, and successful enough in warfare to continue to lavish gifts on your followers.
"The first Capetian monarch was Hugh Capet (c.940–996), a Frankish nobleman from the Île-de-France, who, following the death of Louis V of France (c.967–987) – the last Carolingian King – secured the throne of France by election."
So, yeah, "divine right of kings" is not all that common.
Yeah, that too. All the spiritual mumbo jumbo typically comes into play after the fact. But Beowulf is another example of the tension--his story basically starts with him being called in to help an ineffective but legitimate king.
Quote from: Arminius;877286I can't accept this as a premise.
That's fine, it was just a simplification to quickly get everyone on the same page and start the conversation with minimum baggage.
Quote from: Bren;877291It's like a riff on premise of The Gods Must be Crazy.
If it's like the film, it's going to sting a bit!
well one i like is from last exile in that series nobles and kings own sources of water and that keeps them in power
we are also talking about a place where you go buy your water with your bread
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;877107In history, kings were assumed to have super kingdom ruling powers granted directly by god. They were, in some stories, even linked to the land to some extent.
In the D&D setting Birthright the rulers had such kingdom ruling powers from their ancestors being exposed to dying gods.
Has anyone ever encountered other cool ideas for how someone can come to possess 'rulership powers'?
The pre-christian concept was by blood. Usually, you were a distant descendant of a god.
Quote from: RPGPundit;877962The pre-christian concept was by blood. Usually, you were a distant descendant of a god.
Often by marriage, you married a woman who held the sovereignty of the land and became king. Some say this is the origin of the fairy tale staple of "Marry the princess and get half the kingdom". It might also explain the fact that many of the Kings of Rome weren't Roman by birth.
Quote from: soltakss;877400If it's like the film, it's going to sting a bit!
No, it's a small black bit of meteorite, no bigger than the tip of your finger... give it a try, maybe YOU are the Chosen One!
Quote from: RPGPundit;877962The pre-christian concept was by blood. Usually, you were a distant descendant of a god.
Not just in the pre-Christian era -Henry Tudor's claim to the throne was in part based on some bullshit claim of being descended from Uther Pendragon, a mythical character. When Henry VIII was groping for excuses to defy the pope, one of the reasons he yanked out of his ass is that as a descendant of the ruler of an empire (Arthurian legend claims that King Arthur ruled over all the British Isles, Gaul, Iceland and Norway) rather than a mere kingdom, then he was technically an emperor and not answerable to Rome.
Saxon kings still claimed Woden in their family trees long after they had become Christian.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;877107In history, kings were assumed to have super kingdom ruling powers granted directly by god. They were, in some stories, even linked to the land to some extent.
That is a simplification of a complex situation. In history there were a variety of justification for the king's authority. The divine right you are talking about is a 17th century invention used to justify absolute monarchy.
Now what is common throughout human history is the belief that their culture and society was divinely blessed. For example the power of Germanic kings rested on their ability to command the respect of the tribal warriors and their ability to be generous in the giving of gifts. Even with that support, the king's authority wasn't absolute. If he started to act arbitrarily then he would begin to loose the respect of his warriors and eventually be supplanted by another.
The thing is that the germans believe how the gods ordained things to be. That gods wanted their kings to be a person that all could respect, that kings ought to be generous.
Other cultures like the Roman who had no kings also believe that their society was justified by a divine order as well. The government of Rome had a religious component that was highly influential in how the system worked.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;877107In history, kings were assumed to have super kingdom ruling powers granted directly by god. They were, in some stories, even linked to the land to some extent. ...
Well, in some peoples' histories. Some Medieval Christians, yes, but that's the era of people using the Papacy for political power. Of course, religion is metaphorical and so it's rare that people are going to feel that a king is king not in alignment with the will of their god(s).
Ancient Egypt is of course a good example of the Pharaoh being taken as a god. Of course, Judeo-Christian/Islamic religions are unusual in trying to insist they have monopoly on saying their god is the only right and true one and that he's god o' everything, which is mainly a handy way to snatch followers from more open-minded religions who accept that there are many names and flavors of gods, and aren't expecting the Spanish Inquisition from the visitors' god of love.
There are historical kings who simply reigned by right of might, physical challenge, inheritance, being considered the best choice by the elders or shamans or oracle, or volunteering for the sacrifice (at an ancient symbological level, the king isn't the boss but is the one who sacrifices himself for the people, sometimes literally). In Athens, they had elections and short term limits.
I am glad everyone had their History 101.
As for the actual ideas:
1) The bloodlines of all nobles and kings hails from the Hundred Demonical Conquerors, the raiders of hell who conquered the land, but stayed their hand from slaughtering every living soul in return for 100 brides and grooms. Their original leader, naturally, became the first king...and so it had been, ever since. The position of noble houses shifted - some grew bigger, some grew smaller, dynasties were lost, and the kingdom is no longer ruled by the original family, but in theory (marked by demonical traits - see further), every noble family can directly trace themselves to one of the Hundred Demons.
A definite trait proving nobility are demonical marks - the more pronounced, the higher the prestige of the bloodline, as it is a mark of purity of bloodline. Hooves, horns, different skin colours, fangs and claws are therefore in high demand, and obvious marks of noblehood. The less pronounced the demonical marks are, the more family must've breed with normal humans - which often results in claims of bastardy. In recent times, the royal family has fallen on hard times, as all of it's members are adult and not showing any demonical marks.
In a DnD campaign, the obvious race for nobility of such a realm would be Tieflings.
2) In the lang of Dragon Kings, the kings are elected by votes of all nobles. To have a chance at becoming crowned, every candidate that wishes to partake in Royal Elections, must make and enchant a weapon themselves, with which they must hunt down a Dragon and consume it's heart. Only then they will grow to proper heights of arcane power, that they can contain the power of Drakenskring - an ancient crown fashioned from the skull of Great Wyrm Tzyrekiss by the founder of the kingdom, who has slain the beast and freed the local lands from it's oppression. The wielder of the crown is granted powers beyond keen of even most potent magicians in the kingdom, but beware - if one has not killed the Dragon in honourable, single combat, the crown will drag the wearer into madness. It has happened thrice in past time, and now, to avoid insane tyrants, every Dragonunt is closely moderated and observed by Masters of the Hunt, whom have grown to a very prestigious position at the court.
Quote from: Elfdart;878287Not just in the pre-Christian era -Henry Tudor's claim to the throne was in part based on some bullshit claim of being descended from Uther Pendragon, a mythical character. When Henry VIII was groping for excuses to defy the pope, one of the reasons he yanked out of his ass is that as a descendant of the ruler of an empire (Arthurian legend claims that King Arthur ruled over all the British Isles, Gaul, Iceland and Norway) rather than a mere kingdom, then he was technically an emperor and not answerable to Rome.
This is quite correct. The Tudors claimed to be the last surviving bloodline of the ancient Welsh Kings (who in turn were descended from the Pendragons), and this is why when Henry Tudor went to fight at Bosworth he carried the banner of the Dragon.
Quote from: RPGPundit;877962The pre-christian concept was by blood. Usually, you were a distant descendant of a god.
Go far enough, and who doesn't have one of these? Certainly the guy with the most skill in blades, shooting and wrestling isn't that exception, for how could descendents of a god be defeated by a mere mortal:)?
Quote from: Simlasa;878128No, it's a small black bit of meteorite, no bigger than the tip of your finger... give it a try, maybe YOU are the Chosen One!
And the changes you mention include antlers, tentacles, extra arms, pincers, claws, huge canines, and an extra eye or two, right;)?