Quote from: Christopher Brady;1046559I'm assuming the left one is a Tiefling, but he looks like a scarred half-elf...  Not very interesting.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046582Old school Tieflings had small tells, like claws, glowing eyes or a faint oder of brimstone. They could pass for normal if they tried, but were generally reviled for their otherworldly ancestry.

NuTieflings are freak show snowflakes that should have been drowned at birth.

Planescape is where I believe Tieflings started out and there they tended to have one or more odd features, usually small horns or goat legs and especially a tail.

A pair of Planescape Tieflings.

and another that could pass for human without the tail.


3e and on they seem to have lost that "look like whatever you want" aspect. Though one of the supplements for 5e added back that element a little. Theyve also waffled back and fourth as to wether they are just all the offspring of human/demon pairings or are a stable race or are under a curse or whatever the heck next.

The "scarred elf" that I posted a picture of was actually the portrait picture of Haer'Dalis in Baldur's Gate: Shadows Over Amn.

Quote from: Krimson;1046716I'm more interested in the character concept as a whole rather than the races they choose. I myself have used the aforementioned not liked Tieflings and Gungans and NPCs. The former has appeared several times as the owner of an Inn of various names because I keep forgetting what I call it, who hires adventurers to clear out the Ice Penguins and fits them with gear, feeds them and gives them a place to stay until they are ready to venture forth because Sigil is my default starting point in D&D. Ice Penguins because she has a portal to the paraelemental plane of Ice, which means she has the coldest beer in the Cage. The Gungan was an engineer who was at first despised. I even used the accent to speak for him, but unlike Jar Jar (who actually redeemed himself in Clone Wars), this one was competant. Loathing turned to love when he upgraded the obligatory Corellian Stock Light Frieghter's Sheild to something that could withstand hits from a Star Destroyer.

I once had a player play a Kender from Krynn who yes, stole things from everyone, including players. However, said Kender also handed stuff out when needed, claiming that they were just keeping the stuff safe. In other words, they played the Kender properly, having no concept of ownership of property and being genuinely helpful.

As for the aforementioned relocation of game, and physical ejection of a player. Those were two incidents that happened in my 33 years of roleplaying. I think that is a pretty good track record. I really really don't like barring the use of races that are in the rules, even if I personally don't like them. I do not want to be Captain Buzzkill. I have players who want certain adventures to happen, or certain gear, and I give them the chance to get it. But I do it in the context of giving everyone else a chance to take part and reap the rewards as well. Lethality is low in my games, but this not because of hand holding, but more that I remind players that fleeing is always an option. Well, except when it isn't but they usually have some sort of warning that they are entering a place where you succeed or die. If despite my warnings, players decide to charge off headlong into stupidity, then they get to find out what happens when they charge headlong into stupidity.

Mostly my games are about having fun. If I have a group of murderhobos, then we are going to murderhobo. If I have a group of roleplayers, they we are going to roleplay. I don't care. I don't run scripted adventures. I just make NPCs and locations, and figure out what's going on as I go along, and if players surprise me, no one is more pleased than myself. I always try and make sure everyone has something to do that is relevant and useful.

It has been my repeated experience that players choosing those races do not do so to bring about a unique character that defies the stereotype. I wish it were so. Instead they tend to choose those character races for the comic relief aspect, even though they are the only ones who find it funny. As it is, I'd rather be Captain Buzzkill for the one potentially disruptive player then GM Buzzkill for allowing a disruptive player to screw up the game for the whole group.

I don't dislike Gungans, I dislike Jar Jar Binks. Ewoks are like dogs, you just need the right seasonings.

Quote from: The Exploited.;1046619We are actually getting into interesting territory here with horror, cults, and infernal babies.

Yes, indeed:)!
"In the ancient empire of Am'Shaan, (read the "m" and "sh" without a pause between them, or it becomes a curse), almost 1 in 6 of the citizens is a tiefling. Today, they're people like everyone else, though often drawn to violent trades, from soldiers to city lantern bearer (who have the obligation to protect the - usually drunk - patron that hired them and lead him or her safe to the address, all for a hefty sum of course). Their ancestors, or the ancestors of those that survived, mostly belonged - literally and/or voluntarily - to the cult of the Snake, which prescribed couplings with the cult's demons on the sacred nights. The eventual, albeit thought rare, offspring resulting from such unions became leaders of the cult.
When the cult of the Snake was outlawed 268 years ago, like all cultists, the thieflings had to choose between conversion and being put to the sword. It is to be noted that a lot less tieflings chose the sword than the cultists from other races. They also showed piety in the new-found religions, shaming the accusers who kept talking about a plan. Snakes don't plan ahead, as the tieflings kept pointing out...
Since then, they keep their numbers mostly steady, despite their often violent trades. It is to be noted that tiefllings are prone to couplings with other races, but are almost exclusively marrying among themselves."


Admittedly, the thing I find most interesting is how few people chose to talk about races they like;).

Quote from: AsenRG;1046743Yes, indeed:)Admittedly, the thing I find most interesting is how few people chose to talk about races they like;).

That was some creative stuff, mate! I like it.

And you're right, it would be good to see something about what people like.

So, I like elves. I espeically the elves as they have been done in the following.

Vog Mur, for Rolemaster,  featured some amazing tyrnaical half-elves and almost ephemeral hidden eleven mages. This was, for me, what Rolemaster was perfect for, but after Iron Wind and Tanara the originality and sheer classiness had gone.

Forgotten Realms Grey Box 1st edition AD&D was going in the right direction and certainly the Moonshae's Llewyrr were vey fae and mysterious, but like a lot of FR, it went tacky and gaudy IMO.

Burning Wheel - for as much as I cannot bring myself to grok this game, the elves are brilliant. Immortal but doomed to Grief, or worse, Spite. Not as angsty as it sounds.

Fantastic Heroes and Witchery - did possibly the best mainstream OSR version of elves IMO: with the classes like Warden and Forestal they are really evocative.

Beyond the Wall (again:D)- do great playbooks that lend a sense of mystery to the PC..and because of their "time being over" the receive less Fortune Points balancing their immortality and immnity to disease.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1046636Were they, with a few rare exceptions, sinister tyrants with dark secrets that made the Lannisters look like the Waltons?

Or like this...

http://eleoradraws.tumblr.com/post/133412874540/my-beautiful-tiefling-paladin-azami-from-our-5th

Yikes!  A truly terrifying specimen! She could still have dark secrets.  Bill the cat's heavy metal star career ended when he was caught studying the bible with a nun

But yeah, Throndar is pretty openly lawful evil.  The king is supported by lawful evil deities and binding legal contracts.  I just got tired of some players rampaging around the world like some kind of murder hobos so when we started a new campaign, I wrote "EVIL KINGDOMS" right on the map and put them in a society which accepts greed, murder, vengeance, conquest, and dishonesty as the natural course of nature.  Where compassion is seen as criminal levels of stupidity and weakness and everyone, from the king to a little old granny on the street would slit your throat for a copper piece if the opportunity presented itself.

Devils are seen as tough but fair.  Devilish blood is seen as a sign of nobility and station.  Demons and witches are worshiped by the common folk as Robin Hood like heroes.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1046746That was some creative stuff, mate! I like it.

Glad to hear that:)! Though I wouldn't call it especially "creative". That's what I call "5 out of my 15 minutes of prep for a campaign"...because that's how long it took me to type it out as part of a forum post (editing included).
Generally, I write 3 such "setting clarifications" for every campaign. Then I think how they interact, and how this changes outward behaviour of some key players. And then we start, with a setting that has both everything it needs to function, and those 3 clarified elements;).

QuoteAnd you're right, it would be good to see something about what people like.

So, I like elves. I espeically the elves as they have been done in the following.

You like ELVES:eek:?!?
Ah well...:cool:

QuoteForgotten Realms Grey Box 1st edition AD&D was going in the right direction and certainly the Moonshae's Llewyrr were vey fae and mysterious, but like a lot of FR, it went tacky and gaudy IMO.

"Tacky and gaudy" is definitely part of how I'd describe FR.

QuoteBurning Wheel - for as much as I cannot bring myself to grok this game, the elves are brilliant. Immortal but doomed to Grief, or worse, Spite. Not as angsty as it sounds.

I grok the game, I just don't like some of its premises:D! Especially player/GM turns killed it for me (after having tried them with Torchbearer).

QuoteFantastic Heroes and Witchery - did possibly the best mainstream OSR version of elves IMO: with the classes like Warden and Forestal they are really evocative.

But they're ELVES:D!!!

QuoteBeyond the Wall (again:D)- do great playbooks that lend a sense of mystery to the PC..and because of their "time being over" the receive less Fortune Points balancing their immortality and immnity to disease.

I agree, the Fae in Beyond the Wall are among the few I actually kinda like:p!

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1046746That was some creative stuff, mate! I like it.

Glad to hear that:)! Though I wouldn't call it especially "creative". That's what I call "5 out of my 15 minutes of prep for a campaign"...because that's how long it took me to type it out as part of a forum post (editing included).
Generally, I write 3 such "setting clarifications" for every campaign. Then I think how they interact, and how this changes outward behaviour of some key players. And then we start, with a setting that has both everything it needs to function, and those 3 clarified elements;).

QuoteAnd you're right, it would be good to see something about what people like.

So, I like elves. I espeically the elves as they have been done in the following.

You like ELVES:eek:?!?
Ah well...:cool:

QuoteForgotten Realms Grey Box 1st edition AD&D was going in the right direction and certainly the Moonshae's Llewyrr were vey fae and mysterious, but like a lot of FR, it went tacky and gaudy IMO.

"Tacky and gaudy" is definitely part of how I'd describe FR.

QuoteBurning Wheel - for as much as I cannot bring myself to grok this game, the elves are brilliant. Immortal but doomed to Grief, or worse, Spite. Not as angsty as it sounds.

I grok the game, I just don't like some of its premises:D! Especially player/GM turns killed it for me (after having tried them with Torchbearer).

QuoteFantastic Heroes and Witchery - did possibly the best mainstream OSR version of elves IMO: with the classes like Warden and Forestal they are really evocative.

But they're ELVES:D!!!

QuoteBeyond the Wall (again:D)- do great playbooks that lend a sense of mystery to the PC..and because of their "time being over" the receive less Fortune Points balancing their immortality and immnity to disease.

I agree, the Fae in Beyond the Wall are among the few I actually kinda like (though still prefer them fried with cheese and fries:p)!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1046728Excuse me, I have a question:  Why do people assume that all Kender are uniform, that every single player HAS to play the race the EXACT same way?  I thought PC's were special by the virtue that they are adventurers, meaning they step out of the social norm.

Early on in the franchise (Chronicles and Legends era) all Kender were portrayed as fairly uniform.  Also, since Tas was the primary representative of Kender, there was a tendency to extrapolate from him as the representative of the entire race.  All Vulcans are like Spock syndrome.

Tas's one unique character trait setting him apart from his race seemed to be that he could actually learn and adapt his behaviour.  I think there is at least one time in the books where this is flatly stated about Tas.  So Tas's PC quality is that he has some level of empathy for others and isn't stuck in repeating the same stereotype of his entire race.

Now that I think of it, the whole race being the stereotype kind of fits with their origin.  IIRC, the Kender race was created by the Greystone of Gargath as a curse upon dwarves.

I used to hate the idea of Dragonborn and Tieflings, but now I'm ok with them. I've never liked Kender, and Tinker gnomes seem like an NPC race, rather than one for PCs. As long as someone plays their character reasonably (i.e. not a d*ck) then I'm ok with whatever race they choose. Even if it's only so much window dressing over basically-a-human. If everyone's having fun it's fine. But I do set up campaign effects for unusual PC races. Tieflings will be suspected and blamed for thefts and killings that occur when they're around; Dragonborn will attract fear and wonder; Aasimar and other oddities will be pointed at and followed around - or possibly even worshipped! Good luck keeping a low profile if you're a party of oddities!

It seems to me that very often, the stereotypical behavior of non-human races tends to confine and replace (and/or mainly remove) the individual personality from the way people play those characters (both in RPGs and in dramas).

I have seen players who, when I tossed them an ordinary human NPC that was with the party to play, they had a great time playing them as an interesting person who had heartfelt aspirations and did interesting things... and then in a later session when they brought a new detailed PC that was a [Flavor] Elf or something, they largely sat around as if they were trying to be as generic and passive as possible, and the personality that showed up seemed like the player's own persona plus [Flavor] Elf stereotypes.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1046740I don't dislike Gungans, I dislike Jar Jar Binks. Ewoks are like dogs, you just need the right seasonings.

I didn't really like the d20 versions of Star Wars, but I knew some people who played.  They had an open invitation for me to join their game.

The only thing I ever looked at d20 Star Wars and wanted to play was a Gungan Jedi.  That had me psyched.  I made up the character, and it passed the first big test.  I still wanted to play this character after I wrote him up.  I was EXCITED to play this character after I wrote him up.

I watched Phantom Menace several times, because I genuinely like the movie, but also because I was studying Gungan speech.  I practiced speaking like the Gungans.  I think I had it down pretty damn good.  I had this Gungan as Tibetan monk sort of thing going.  There was definitely a joke aspect to the character, but I was approaching it in full seriousness.  I guess a good parallel would have been a drunken kung fu master.  He wasn't going to fight with drunken kung fu, but he was going to be this somewhat comical character who was actually flat out serious after the superficial presentation had been scratched.

I really can't understate it.  I was super excited to play this character.

I told them what I wanted to play and they said they really didn't want any Prequel stuff in their game, and they definitely didn't want a Gungan.  If I wanted to play anything else other than an Ewok, I was still welcome.  It wasn't an objection to a Jedi.  It was purely "Prequels and Jar Jar sucks."  Which always made me wonder why they were playing the d20 version since it was the Prequel edition.

I never played in their Star Wars game.  They kept asking me to play, but I never saw anything else that I wanted to play in that game system.

Human-only is my preference. I only play humans as a player, and if I'm choosing the setting, it's one without any playable "fantasy races". Antagonists can be reptilian or amphibian or avian - not mammalian and not identifiable.

Anymore I just prefer that people play Men. That's what their mans are regardless of their race choice anyways, so why pretend? (Similarly, I prefer these days to keep classes down to the Fundamental Four.)