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I almost missed this and glad I didn't:

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=63759

Another retro-clone you say? What makes this special?

Well, for one, the scope of what it covers. Not just fantasy, but has classes designed for sword & planet and "weird tales"

For another, I like a lot of the tweaks, like using the wound point/vitality point system, the ascending AC system, and the magic system, which does away with the cleric.

Anyway, the PDF is free, though there is a catch - it's 2 pages a screen, so not tablet friendly (there will be a for sale one that is later)

Hm, seems to be available in print form on lulu.

Looks kinda interesting - basically OSRIC with a bunch of tweaks maybe, something like that? (I like making cleric & druid spells non-divine)

I lol'd at the spoofs on iconic AD&D art - a paladin in hell, the magic mouth...

Does anyone else think all these retroclone/OSR games are becoming nothing more than, "Hey, buy my house rules for D&D"?

Ordering a copy anyway...

Quote from: Brad;709388Does anyone else think all these retroclone/OSR games are becoming nothing more than, "Hey, buy my house rules for D&D"?

Ordering a copy anyway...

Yup.

I just play AD&D

Quote from: Piestrio;709391Yup.

I just play AD&D

Me too. With a dash of this and a dash of that.

Cleric died and Wizard took his stuff.

Quote from: Brad;709388Does anyone else think all these retroclone/OSR games are becoming nothing more than, "Hey, buy my house rules for D&D"?

Ordering a copy anyway...

Yeah, I think that's been the case for a while now.

I do enjoy reading people's houserules, though. Especially when they're good; coherent, comprehensive, simple, expanding on the best-played RPG ever and taking it in interesting new directions.

I'll download the PDF and give it a read when I get home tonight.

Quote from: Brad;709388Does anyone else think all these retroclone/OSR games are becoming nothing more than, "Hey, buy my house rules for D&D"?

Ordering a copy anyway...

Yes, there is quite an awful lot of that, and its too bad.  Luckily, there are also OSR games that go in new directions; like Arrows of Indra!

Exactly 666 spells. LOL, I love that.

The cover looks nice.

Quote from: RPGPundit;709874Yes, there is quite an awful lot of that, and its too bad.  Luckily, there are also OSR games that go in new directions; like Arrows of Indra!

Yes, which is exactly why I bought it. It's an OSR game that tries to do something different. Mutant Future, Starships and Spacemen and Dungeon Crawl Classics are three more games that are definitely not just D&D rehashed. But for every DCC we have three Delving Deepers.

Certainly exhibits a lot of energy and enthusiasm.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;709882Exactly 666 spells. LOL, I love that.

These little touches can really make a game.

The Cleric is dead, long fucking live the Friar. Seriously, that alone is worth it for me... I admit to not being a fan of the layout on the PDF version though.

that is the preview pdf. the for sale pdf will be one page per and have hyperlinks et al.

that is the preview pdf. the for sale pdf will be one page per and have hyperlinks et al.

He wants $7 for the formatted single page PDF version.
It's quite an impressive bit of work and I like the art as well.

Very nice how it covers different genres. Will probs buy the edited single page version of the rules.

Quote from: Brad;709888Yes, which is exactly why I bought it. It's an OSR game that tries to do something different. Mutant Future, Starships and Spacemen and Dungeon Crawl Classics are three more games that are definitely not just D&D rehashed. But for every DCC we have three Delving Deepers.

OSR games are designed with differing objectives. Some are out to provide as close an approximation to an out of print game as possible ( LL,OSRIC, S&W, DD) and others such as DCC are going for an old school experience with a new and different perspective.

Clones are just that. Originality and innovation is not the goal. I like Delving Deeper for different reasons than DCC. Since WOTC is limiting OD&D to a premium high priced release its nice to see a free to play OD&D clone out there that is accessible to everyone.

So IMHO clones don't compete in the same space as other OSR games.

Quote from: Teazia;710074that is the preview pdf. the for sale pdf will be one page per and have hyperlinks et al.

Oh, I'm quite aware, I just think it's a pretty mercenary way of incentivizing it. Tip of the hat for deviousness.

Quote from: Brad;709388Does anyone else think all these retroclone/OSR games are becoming nothing more than, "Hey, buy my house rules for D&D"?

Ordering a copy anyway...

Yes
That aside from that. It does look interesting. But I need another OSR/retroclone like another hole in my head. But YMMV

Quote from: Ronin;710302Yes
That aside from that. It does look interesting. But I need another OSR/retroclone like another hole in my head. But YMMV

I dunno. Most of the OSR games suffer from the problems of either being retreads, or simply not being all that good (DCC, ACKS, C&C).

This looks like something I'd actually like to play.

Of course, what one person finds good, another person doesn't.

Quote from: Ronin;710302But I need another OSR/retroclone like another hole in my head.

I thought that long ago, when I found Swords & Wizardry.

And then Lamentations came along.
And then Beyond the Wall.
And now Whitehack.

In all the candor, I can see the point of Swords and Wizardry serving as a means of consolidating OD&D's stuff into a much more clear presentation.

On the other hand, I honestly don't think the differences between Moldvay/Cook B/X and Mentzer's BECMI are substantial enough to make Labyrinth Lord or LOTFP or any of the other Basic knock-offs displace my Rules Cyclopedia, I don't need a replacement AD&D because I have the original, and I already have Holmes. There's very little cloning I personally need.

Quote from: Warthur;710465In all the candor, I can see the point of Swords and Wizardry serving as a means of consolidating OD&D's stuff into a much more clear presentation.

On the other hand, I honestly don't think the differences between Moldvay/Cook B/X and Mentzer's BECMI are substantial enough to make Labyrinth Lord or LOTFP or any of the other Basic knock-offs displace my Rules Cyclopedia, I don't need a replacement AD&D because I have the original, and I already have Holmes. There's very little cloning I personally need.

I'm on the opposite camp, I think. I started gaming in 1992 and the only TSR-era rules I own are the 1991 D&D Introductory Set ("black box"), the D&D Rules Cyclopedia and the AD&D 2e core rulebooks.

I gladly picked up S&W Complete, and I just ordered LL plus the AEC because I keep patching S&W Complete with stuff cribbed from LL and the RC.

I've also picked up ACKS because I perceived it as a focused B/X or BEC (of BECMI) hack that does its schtick exceedingly well. And AS&SH because I love the new classes, and the bestiary, and the setting. And C&C because it was my OSR gateway drug and our two-year campaign was a blast.

But then I own Mongoose Runequest 2, Legend, Openquest 2e and two copies of RQ6 (softcover and hardcover) so I might not be the best index for this. I really should give some of this stuff away, BTW. :o

Quote from: Warthur;710465In all the candor, I can see the point of Swords and Wizardry serving as a means of consolidating OD&D's stuff into a much more clear presentation.

On the other hand, I honestly don't think the differences between Moldvay/Cook B/X and Mentzer's BECMI are substantial enough to make Labyrinth Lord or LOTFP or any of the other Basic knock-offs displace my Rules Cyclopedia, I don't need a replacement AD&D because I have the original, and I already have Holmes. There's very little cloning I personally need.

I would tend to agree that the need is not technically there, but in some cases, a game system adds in a dash of personality and creativity to make it more appealling.

LOTFP has just enough mechanical tweaks, cleverness, and a 'theme' I find appealing.

So even thoughI could use 1E dnd and run a campaign with that theme, its appealing to use LOTFP for that.

A little over a year ago, was it easier to walk out of the FLGS with Swords & Wizardry/Labyrinth Lord or a complete set of 1st edition AD&D books?

Lets see...

400+ pages of OGC material spanning multiple genres

Lots and lots of cool art, most of it newly published

Free pdf

.357 Magnum pointed at your head insisting you use this rule set*

I don't really see the problem here

* I jest, I jest

Quote from: The Butcher;710469I'm on the opposite camp, I think. I started gaming in 1992 and the only TSR-era rules I own are the 1991 D&D Introductory Set ("black box"), the D&D Rules Cyclopedia and the AD&D 2e core rulebooks.

I gladly picked up S&W Complete, and I just ordered LL plus the AEC because I keep patching S&W Complete with stuff cribbed from LL and the RC.

I've also picked up ACKS because I perceived it as a focused B/X or BEC (of BECMI) hack that does its schtick exceedingly well. And AS&SH because

But then I own Mongoose Runequest 2, Legend, Openquest 2e and two copies of RQ6 (softcover and hardcover) so I might not be the best index for this. I really should give some of this stuff away, BTW. :o

Do you own Arrows of Indra? Because if not, you might be able to buy a signed copy if you were to get down to Montevideo... just saying...

...of course, if you do own a copy, you could always get it signed if you were here.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;711072Do you own Arrows of Indra? Because if not, you might be able to buy a signed copy if you were to get down to Montevideo... just saying...

Looking forward to it!

Quote from: Brad;709388Ordering a copy anyway...

Got the book today. Looks pretty nice...the interior layout is really good; reminiscent of Warhammer RPG.

I'm the first one to admit I was wrong: this book is totally worth the money. It's another DCC, not simply a crappy clone.

Just finished skimming through the preview. I think I shall be ordering this one.

Quote from: Brad;715935I'm the first one to admit I was wrong: this book is totally worth the money. It's another DCC, not simply a crappy clone.

Your turnaround on this piques my curiosity.  I wonder if we could get the author to come join us here?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;716654Your turnaround on this piques my curiosity.  I wonder if we could get the author to come join us here?

RPGPundit

I wrote him about this thread. I really like his game and I'm ready to ask him several questions.

Quote from: Brad;715935I'm the first one to admit I was wrong: this book is totally worth the money. It's another DCC, not simply a crappy clone.

What in particular stands out as  being worth the dough?

Quote from: Warthur;716800What in particular stands out as  being worth the dough?

I just skimmed through the book again last night, and here are the things that stand out the most:

1) Not simply another fantasy clone. There are races/classes designed for pulp, swords and sorcery, scifi, and "Dying Earth"-style campaigns (author's words). There's even a section on laser guns and explosives. You can use this book to play typical D&D fantasy, Gamma World, dark fantasy, John Carter or whatever. This seems to be the game designed to take advantage of Carcosa (yes, even over LotFP).

2) The magic system is really cool. Grey, White and Black magic/magicians, along with Delusion and Nature magic. Later in the book the idea of specialist wizards is thrown in almost out of nowhere which really expands the possible character types.

3) Going with #2, every section has new ways to expand character classes. There are a bunch of alternative classes in the appendix, the specialist wizards mentioned above, "prestige classes"...the skill system is a short list tied to attributes which allows for customizing the classes even further. Assassins, for instance, just don't get the same +2 bonus as thieves for a certain set of skills. Super simple, but it works. Varied backgrounds provide some mechanical benefit, along with flavoring the characters. There are also race-specific classes, which promotes the archetypal race-as-class.

Further, there's a free supplement for multiclassing that doesn't overpower multiclassed characters (introduces more generic, low powered classes that are combined). Pretty cool.

4) A metric fuckton of information for running games. When I was reading the book, I thought perhaps this could be used for a Cthulhu game but wondered how to handle the problem of sanity. Well, there it is in the book. Along with Talents (feats) and Psionics. Basically it's like the author included any sort of optional rule you might think of from other OGL/OSR games, but succinctly and unobtrusively.

5) Corollary to #4, no wasted space or fluff. EVERYTHING in the book is geared toward play, and there is no filler. You might decide not to use the section on the planes, but it's there just in case. The overview of religion is very useful as well. There is just enough information to spark ideas and give you a platform for creating your own world and not a bunch of bs that explicates how things are done. This is a toolkit that requires a good GM to make use of, but it also allows you to import any other resource you want without trouble. The section on monsters essentially gives you a quick-n-dirty method for converting them from other sources. I already have a shitload of monster manuals, so not duplicating those entries is much appreciated.

If you never play this game (I probably will not considering I can barely keep my B/X game going) it is worth the money simply for the ideas. The author obviously spent a lot of time playing and running various editions of D&D and D&D-like games in different genres, cherry picking the parts he thought worked the best. There are elements of many editions here, but melded into something unique, which is what the OSR is SUPPOSED to be, right?

Quote from: Brad;716824There are elements of many editions here, but melded into something unique, which is what the OSR is SUPPOSED to be, right?

Yep, tell the author you just sold a copy for him.

Quote from: CRKrueger;716926Yep, tell the author you just sold a copy for him.

I'm actually disappointed I chintzed out and got the paperback instead of the hardcover. If there's another Lulu sale, definitely ordering hardcover.

Quote from: Brad;716952I'm actually disappointed I chintzed out and got the paperback instead of the hardcover. If there's another Lulu sale, definitely ordering hardcover.

Sounds like a great game. Someone should bump this thread when the next Lulu sale is on.

Quote from: Brad;716824The section on monsters essentially gives you a quick-n-dirty method for converting them from other sources.

Are there guidelines for converting 3E monsters to oldschool?

Quote from: CRKrueger;716926Yep, tell the author you just sold a copy for him.

Seconded.

This sounds very excellent indeed, especially considering it's Brad who's posting about him (I don't know Brad a lot, but he doesn't strike me as the kinda guy who gushes uncritically on something new and shiny but rather the kinda guy who has a rather in-depth look at things before making up his mind, with a clear eye for things of importance).

Quote from: The Butcher;710469But then I own Mongoose Runequest 2, Legend, Openquest 2e and two copies of RQ6 (softcover and hardcover) so I might not be the best index for this. I really should give some of this stuff away, BTW. :o

Quoted for Truth.  :o

From skimming the pdf, I am really liking what he does with the Divine side of things.  The Friar and its related classes, the discussion of the role of Gods and religions, and the listings of template Gods.  Those are really neat and suggest what class combo PC priests of those Gods could be as well as including granted powers to flavour the divine classes closely to the deity.  Plus, if you really want your Priestly type to have spells, he's got Champion of Law/Chaos/Neutrality for those types that look like they were inspired partially from the Stormbringer allegiance system.

Drive by...

Quote from: Brad;716952I'm actually disappointed I chintzed out and got the paperback instead of the hardcover. If there's another Lulu sale, definitely ordering hardcover.

Free shipping is: FREESHIP
LULUEMP2013 is the 40% one. *

Using both the HC book is 21.64.

Quote from: Planet Algol;717000Are there guidelines for converting 3E monsters to oldschool?

There's not a ton of information about converting monsters, but Base-to-hit per 3.x = BtH in FH&W. Saves are similar. You can probably eyeball it and use monsters from 3.x with about 2 seconds effort. Converting from 1st/2nd might take 5 seconds (convert HD to BtH bonus). The underlying system is basically d20 with AD&D sensibilities, so using monsters from any source is pretty easy.

And thanks to Gib for the coupons; just ordered the HC.

Quote from: Gib;717092Drive by...



Free shipping is: FREESHIP
LULUEMP2013 is the 40% one. *

Using both the HC book is 21.64.

Just ordered it.  Thanks for that coupon.  

And thanks for this thread pushing the sale:)

Just ordered. Picked up some of Rafael Chandler's work as well.

Quote from: Gib;717092Drive by...



Free shipping is: FREESHIP
LULUEMP2013 is the 40% one. *

Using both the HC book is 21.64.

Thanks man.

Sci-fi stuff was the big thing I thought was (very stupidly) missing from the DCC rules.

Of course in my own campaign I've fixed that, in a big way.

Quote from: Brad;709388Does anyone else think all these retroclone/OSR games are becoming nothing more than, "Hey, buy my house rules for D&D"?

Actually, I'd say they are staying more: "Hey, buy my whole game with its own brand name."

Labyrinth Lord and OSRIC seemed to me to provide enough cover for publishers who wanted to offer new material for use with old rules sets. Prefer Swords & Wizardy? Fine! A growing sprawl of retro-brands, though, seems to undermine the benefit. It also means more of much of a sameness to wade through before you can fish out the gems buried in it.

Want to share your house rules with me? Cut to the chase and give me something like the OD&D Supplements or Arduin Grimoires. I'm personally a lot more interested in new monsters, spells, magic items, tricks & traps, bits of color, and scenarios, than I am in yet more "mechanical" hacks.

Shit, we've had 40 years of variants, amounting to a few thousand different rules sets. How many people who actually play are really still unable to find a decent basic game system? How many more iterations of treatments of the same old stuff can actually offer something even remotely new under the gaming sun?

I couldn't pass up the $20 incl shipping for the hardback.  Curse you RPGSite!

I look forward to receiving the book!

Cheers

OK, I joined the bandwagon and ordered a hardback of this for myself, as well as a copy of Raedwald for Heroes & Other Worlds as a Christmas present.

You got me here as well, just ordered my copy. The Weird fantasy and Sword & Planet classes just look very good and the take on religious classes seems very interesting as well.

And I like the level of crunch, it really looks like a cool toolbox.

Again, if the author is reading this, I'm interested in doing a review for my thousands of blog and forum and G+ readers...  Check out the
reviews section of this very site and you'll see the quality of reviews I put out.

Quote from: RPGPundit;719676Again, if the author is reading this, I'm interested in doing a review for my thousands of blog and forum and G+ readers...  Check out the
reviews section of this very site and you'll see the quality of reviews I put out.

Ah! Incredible! I wasn't aware of this thread! :o (Someone told me at DF, and I came and now will respond.)

So, first of all, I would be GLAD to have a review, thanks a lot for the proposal. (Especially if at some point the review could be posted on Amazon too, when the V.1.3 is released on Amazon).

Now, let me read the thread and answer some questions I could find.

Quote from: LibraryLass;710151I just think it's a pretty mercenary way of incentivizing it. Tip of the hat for deviousness.

Years of game-mastering has developed my deviousness. :D (In fact I am renown for being a devious GM...)

By the way, some people out there, found a way of turning around the two-pages layout and make it a one page layout...

Quote from: Phillip;717784How many more iterations of treatments of the same old stuff can actually offer something even remotely new under the gaming sun?

Well, I would like to point out that I am not trying to produce a new game. It's the same game, but reworked from the various editions I played and ran over the years, putting together what I like the most. As such, the idea behind FH&W is that if you know the other editions, you just already know how to run this iteration of the game. Simply, this book gives you more of everything (classes, spells, ray-guns, etc., to choose from). For example, coming from my years of GMing, I had a need for rules about PCs who try to put a dagger on a NPC's throat to coerce him. If not, they want to just declare doing it (with maybe agreeing to a surprise roll), then, when the blade is there, automatically slay the NPC if they decide so. Now there is a rule to keep things under control and avoid useless player/GM arguments...

Anyway, just so you know: the lulu sales are currently on hold. After doing two initial proof-readings, I was ashamed to find even more typos and errors on the books sold. So, we are at version 1.2, but it needs another proof-reading (which is slowly done with the help of a benevolent buyer of the book), and sales will be resumed with version 1.3. Thanks for your understanding. (Of course an errata will be put for download.)

Quote from: Turanil;720022Ah! Incredible! I wasn't aware of this thread! :o (Someone told me at DF, and I came and now will respond.)

So, first of all, I would be GLAD to have a review, thanks a lot for the proposal. (Especially if at some point the review could be posted on Amazon too, when the V.1.3 is released on Amazon).

Now, let me read the thread and answer some questions I could find.

I'll send you a PM.

Quote from: Turanil;720027Anyway, just so you know: the lulu sales are currently on hold. After doing two initial proof-readings, I was ashamed to find even more typos and errors on the books sold. So, we are at version 1.2, but it needs another proof-reading (which is slowly done with the help of a benevolent buyer of the book), and sales will be resumed with version 1.3. Thanks for your understanding. (Of course an errata will be put for download.)

Blarg...so do I need to order copy #3 to get the latest and greatest?

Quote from: Brad;720570Blarg...so do I need to order copy #3 to get the latest and greatest?

I think it is just typos.

This is my new DnD. I love it.

According to USPS's tracking, mine should be getting delivered today:)  Treated myself for Christmas this book and a few rpgs from Precis Intermedia.

And just got the hardback in today.  Looks good.

Quote from: Turanil;720027Anyway, just so you know: the lulu sales are currently on hold. After doing two initial proof-readings, I was ashamed to find even more typos and errors on the books sold. So, we are at version 1.2, but it needs another proof-reading (which is slowly done with the help of a benevolent buyer of the book), and sales will be resumed with version 1.3. Thanks for your understanding. (Of course an errata will be put for download.)

I got my hardcopy in the mail as well, and look forward to reading it. Typos are a drag but won't interfere with play at the table so I'm not disappointed I got the pre-remove-from-Lulu copy.

Could you post here when the errata sheet is ready and the v1.3 PDF is available for download. Will you continue to offer the v1.3 PDF for free?

Just got mine in, too.

Quote from: languagegeek;722493Could you post here when the errata sheet is ready and the v1.3 PDF is available for download. Will you continue to offer the v1.3 PDF for free?

The errata sheet and V.1.3 PDF will be made available on the website for free, when they are ready.

This game would definitely replace any 3.5 or Pathfinder game I would ever run.  It's intuitive and the changes are enough to change the implied setting from D&D.  It scales back a 3.5 ruleset to a streamlined AD&D toolbox.  There's enough there for player option without the treadmill of character optimization, as the class provides that.  The interior and layout are impressive and easy to read.  My friends and I could play this with a quick glimpse and I could easily imagine incorporating a more gonzo style campaign with the tools provided.

My biggest complaint would be the cover.  It's a small detail but with a toolbox game you would think the cover would be simple, tomelike, or would at least graphically show more of the options presented in the book.  The cartoonish style reminds me more of a Basic D&D retoclone.  It really is a small complaint but with all the great work presented inside, it just doesn't seem it's the best foot forward.

Quote from: Gunslinger;722792This game would definitely replace any 3.5 or Pathfinder game I would ever run.  It's intuitive and the changes are enough to change the implied setting from D&D.  It scales back a 3.5 ruleset to a streamlined AD&D toolbox.  There's enough there for player option without the treadmill of character optimization, as the class provides that.  The interior and layout are impressive and easy to read.  My friends and I could play this with a quick glimpse and I could easily imagine incorporating a more gonzo style campaign with the tools provided.

Thanks a lot! :)

Quote from: Gunslinger;722792My biggest complaint would be the cover.  It's a small detail but with a toolbox game you would think the cover would be simple, tomelike, or would at least graphically show more of the options presented in the book.  The cartoonish style reminds me more of a Basic D&D retoclone.  It really is a small complaint but with all the great work presented inside, it just doesn't seem it's the best foot forward.

Since you are the first to complaint, I don't think of changing the cover art. And I am not sure I would be able to create a better one. However, I would be interested to know what you would see on the cover if you were to decide. (So at least I get ideas for the other, future books.) For example: what is "tomelike"?

Quote from: Turanil;722858Since you are the first to complaint, I don't think of changing the cover art. And I am not sure I would be able to create a better one. However, I would be interested to know what you would see on the cover if you were to decide. (So at least I get ideas for the other, future books.) For example: what is "tomelike"?

My criticism isn't about your artistic ability and is probably more a reflection of my personal preference.  "Tomelike" would be a similar style used by the 3.x books.  The books look like tomes.  I'd use the end binding leather pattern for the whole cover and create an FH&M medallion logo for the cover.  It allows the interior content to set the tone.  If you feel that is too derivative of the 3.x books, I'd think about a simpler piece using symbology, keeping the book more enigmatic and yet still tying all the genres presented in the book.   Not to offend the Pundit, but I would look at Freemason symbol usage as a reference.  Classic and timeless.  

I will now step off my soap box as an art critic.  I'm a tad bit ashamed of being so critical on a REALLY minor issue.

If you go with that, don't make it as overblown as the 3.5 ones were, though. Those were kind of corny.

Quote from: The Butcher;709434I'll download the PDF and give it a read when I get home tonight.

I sure took my sweet fucking time, didn't I? :D

It was [strike]Aos'[/strike] Gib's comment over at another thread that made me finally take a look at this.

I really like it how the author readily offers the science-fantasy bits and pieces, the weird races and the Akrasia's-house-rules-like magic system.

I kind of want to run this, just not sure what for. I mean, other recent "second-wave" OSR games like AS&SH or ACKS are very clear on what they run like. FH&W is, I don't know, it's light on assumptions and very much presumes you won't use everything. But if you do, it's gonna be awesome.

I'm not making any sense, am I?

So, anyone playing or running FH&W? What are you doing with it?

"Tome" covers are boring, and very often ugly (The 3.x books, I'm looking at you).

Just so you know:

I have lately been correcting errors and typos, and changing a few things (such as the Scarlet Fist class being renamed Scary Monk, because maybe "Scarlet" would make it too close to a certain copyrighted brotherhood...). Then, I have been changing the names and rewriting almost 90 spells. I did so because I felt concerned that even my initial rewriting of the spells (those that weren't in the d20 SRD) might still be not OGL compliant. So, I significantly changed them, and I hope they are now far enough from those that inspired them. For instance, the Cacodemon spell disappeared. I replaced it with Cacophony of Demons, which I think is much more intriguing, flavorful, and lending more easily to role-playing.

QuoteAS&SH or ACKS are very clear on what they run like. FH&W is, I don't know, it's light on assumptions and very much presumes you won't use everything. But if you do, it's gonna be awesome.

Well, it's not a universe in itself, rather than an attempt of having everything in one book. Unfortunately for this concept of everything in one book, I now have ideas (and already written stuff) for a later "companion book" with more classes and races, and spells (including much more stuff on science-fiction). I would like to add about the game assumption, that it might also be seen as an evocation of the old Arduin intent of putting everything together in one place...

Be sure to let us know when a print version is available again. Looked yesterday but nothing on Lulu :(

I think, Turanil, you worry just slightly too much about possible infringement.

Quote from: LibraryLass;739657I think, Turanil, you worry just slightly too much about possible infringement.

Yeah.

Necromancer Games pushed it a lot of times, like with their original spell names.

Morden
Tensor
Otluke
Oto
Rarey
Nystal
Bigsby
Leomand
Mel  (which made me laugh, thinking of Mel's Diner and Vic Tayback)

And interestingly, Drawmiij

WOTC apparently didn't like it when Jim Ward used Drawmij (his name spelled backwards) and forced them to pulp some books, but I don't think they raised a peep over this. So apparently adding or subtracting one letter is enough.

Quote from: LibraryLass;739657I think, Turanil, you worry just slightly too much about possible infringement.

Probably best to err on the side of caution when you're selling something based (loosely or otherwise) on someone else's work. The looser the better I guess.

That said, some people just take the piss completely (ref: the T&T stuff for sale on an internet site) and get away with it seemingly.

Quote from: Turanil;739643For instance, the Cacodemon spell disappeared. I replaced it with Cacophony of Demons, which I think is much more intriguing, flavorful, and lending more easily to role-playing.

While I agree that Cacophony of Demons is much more flavorful, cacodemon just means "evil spirit" and very much predates DnD, by a few centuries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacodemon

So you were probably fine.

Quote from: Brander;739730While I agree that Cacophony of Demons is much more flavorful, cacodemon just means "evil spirit" and very much predates DnD, by a few centuries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacodemon

So you were probably fine.

I agree with that one at the very least, given that RuneQuest used it in Glorantha not very long after.  Still, being cautious in these areas is probably sensible given the nature of the legal departments of Hasbro etc.

...except Hasbro don't seem to have lifted a finger against the retro-clone movement yet, despite others showing substantially less caution.

Actually, this is worth a thread of its own.

Quote from: Warthur;740020...except Hasbro don't seem to have lifted a finger against the retro-clone movement yet, despite others showing substantially less caution.

Actually, this is worth a thread of its own.

Then make it so!

Quote from: RPGPundit;740775Then make it so!

ehm... he already did (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=29328), four days ago?

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;740780ehm... he already did (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=29328), four days ago?

Excellent!

At last it is completed and available: Fantastic Heroes & Witchery Version 2! I hope you will enjoy it!

You can download it it for free here: Heroes-&-Witchery website (http://www.dcrouzet.net/heroes-witchery/?page_id=83)

You can buy it on LULU.com here: FH&W on Lulu.com (http://www.lulu.com/shop/dominique-crouzet/fantastic-heroes-witchery-hardcover/hardcover/product-21569213.html)

This was mostly about cleaning the text (fixing errors and editing all typos we could find), and seeing that the book was not inadvertently infringing on some copyrights. To this end, I rewrote and renamed 70 spells. In fact, the spells that disappeared are not considered unusable where gaming is considered, it's just that I prefer not see them anymore, where complying with the OGL is considered...

Thanks again to those who bought the book. Yet, sorry for the typos and errors that I didn't see before releasing version 1.0 to 1.3. :o Version 2.0 is the final version! I want now dedicate myself to other books (first the bestiary, then the swords & planets campaign setting, then novels...).

Looking forward to doing the review!

The fully bookmarked PDF of Fantastic Heroes & Witchery is ready!

I just submitted it for sale to RPGnow (should be made available very soon). For 7.50$ what do you get compared to the free PDF available on my website (see signature below)? Well, it has a ton of hyperlinks. You can click on any of the (approximately) 1500+ entries of the table of contents, general index, and spell index, and you will be brought directly to the relevant page. Hence, navigating this 430 pages document becomes extremely easy (which is certainly not the case with the free PDF...). Hence, when at the gaming table with a digital tablet, getting an information from the FH&W ebook will take but a couple of clicks.

SPECIAL NOTE: Anyone who posted previously in this thread! You are eligible for a free copy of the digital version of Fantastic Heroes & Witchery! If you have a RPGnow/DriveThru-RPG account, and if I can get the relevant info, I will send you a complimentary copy as soon as I can. (And it would be nice if you could leave a rating and short testimonial on RPGnow about this products, on the review page.)

Thanks to all!

Dude, you're awesome.  I'm glad I posted previously in this thread:)

Quote from: Turanil;745987SPECIAL NOTE: Anyone who posted previously in this thread! You are eligible for a free copy of the digital version of Fantastic Heroes & Witchery! If you have a RPGnow/DriveThru-RPG account, and if I can get the relevant info, I will send you a complimentary copy as soon as I can. (And it would be nice if you could leave a rating and short testimonial on RPGnow about this products, on the review page.)

Sweet babies!

Quote from: RunningLaser;746015Dude, you're awesome.  I'm glad I posted previously in this thread:)

Me too.  Now I'm ashamed for being critical.

Quote from: RunningLaser;746015Dude, you're awesome.  I'm glad I posted previously in this thread:)

As am I.  That's amazingly generous of you.  What information do you need?

Quote from: Gunslinger;746074Me too.  Now I'm ashamed for being critical.

People who are critical aren't insulting me. They are pointing parts of the game that, perhaps, might be improved. At least, I like to know and see if it helps me do better next time. Appraisal is good for the ego and the encouragement (I like it, and it helps); while critics could be useful to fix what's wrong and ameliorate things.

Quote from: Psychman;746108As am I.  That's amazingly generous of you.  What information do you need?

Oh hum... I will have to look this carefully on RPGnow website. I will tell once I know. :o

Quote from: Turanil;745987SPECIAL NOTE: Anyone who posted previously in this thread! You are eligible for a free copy of the digital version of Fantastic Heroes & Witchery! If you have a RPGnow/DriveThru-RPG account, and if I can get the relevant info, I will send you a complimentary copy as soon as I can. (And it would be nice if you could leave a rating and short testimonial on RPGnow about this products, on the review page.)

Quote from: Turanil;746121People who are critical aren't insulting me. They are pointing parts of the game that, perhaps, might be improved. At least, I like to know and see if it helps me do better next time. Appraisal is good for the ego and the encouragement (I like it, and it helps); while critics could be useful to fix what's wrong and ameliorate things.

And this children, is called class.

Thank you for your kind offer. I've already bought it, and now I'm damn proud that I did. :)

Kudos for being awesome.

I've got a review copy, and I'm really looking forward to checking it out in detail.

Quote from: TuranilThe fully bookmarked PDF of Fantastic Heroes & Witchery is ready!

Anyone who posted in this thread before! You can get a free copy of the digital version of Fantastic Heroes & Witchery if you want!

Those who posted in this thread before, I just need an email. Then, I will have RPGnow send you a complimentary copy of the bookmarked PDF (i.e. free of charge). That is: RPGnow will send you an email with a link to download the PDF.

Otherwise, you can see it HERE (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/129194/Fantastic-Heroes--Witchery?term=Fantastic+Heroes+%26+Witchery)  :D

Since I am late, I will download a copy from RPGNow. I really like what I see, especially how the classes are handled, and the fact that Alignment is de-emphasized.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;747620Since I am late, I will download a copy from RPGNow. I really like what I see, especially how the classes are handled, and the fact that Alignment is de-emphasized.

Besides, you only need one alignment in dnd.

CE  (Character Expediency)

Update on sales:

I just wanted to point out that the softcover POD book is no more available on Lulu (Lulu now sells only the hardcover). You can now get a softcover version on Amazon: Fantastic Heroes & Witchery - Softcover (http://www.amazon.com/Fantastic-Heroes-Witchery-Dominique-Crouzet/dp/1499155484/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400225353&sr=8-1&keywords=fantastic+heroes+%26+witchery).

Amazon has its own POD service (i.e. Createspace). I got a copy: I think the paper and binding/spine quality are as per Lulu; interior pages are slightly better printed, in that all the grey shadings in the tables are now visible (which is very pale, almost nonexistent, in Lulu's version); cover art appears more crisp, but also darker, and I went for matte cover rather than glossy.

Another sale here, sounds really interesting :)

I am also in the camp that finds most OSR clones uninteresting, at least as compared to my heavily used originals. But this does look kind of cool! My question for those of you who have it is, how does it compare with DCC? Whatever you think of all the tables in DCC, I think the product as a whole is brilliant - easily the best thing I've seen among the OSR-motivated games. Mostly because it has its own voice and character, but also clearly gets the whole spirit of pre 80's gaming. And it doesn't hurt that the artwork is fantastic.

There are several differences between DCC and FH&W, but both games are certainly much more compatible together than DCC with 3e, or FH&W with 3e.

Examples of similarities:
-> Ascending attack bonuses vs. ascending AC.

Examples of differences:
-> DCC uses the three 3e saves (i.e.: Fortitude, Reflex, Willpower vs a DC); where FH&W use a d20 roll equal or higher than a single target number determined by class and level (that gets lower as character gains levels), to which may be added bonuses determined by class.
-> DCC proposes the traditional classes found in the older D&D, including races as classes. FH&W proposes more than 30 classes, that are independent of race; there are classes specific to certain races, to replace "race as class".
-> DCC proposes only 10 experience levels, while FH&W proposes 13 levels, plus an option to gain more levels beyond that.

All in all, I think nothing forbid to use parts of DCC in FH&W (or vice versa). Fumble and critical tables might be used, corruption effects and tables too. It might be possible to create a wizard who casts spells as per DCC in a FH&W game; but I don't know if it would be much more powerful than a regular FH&W wizard. I once thought of having certain instances where magic would be unstable or what not, and some spells might be cast using DCC tables, but of course not always. But I didn't try it. (In fact I never tried using some DCC with FH&W.)

Of course FH&W needs more classes!

So, for play in science-fantasy settings, and inspired by Eric Fabiaschi, here is four new classes: the Planet Trooper and Purple Knight (based on an old TV show: Otherworld), the Runner (based on Logan's Run), and the Sisterhood Acolyte (a Bene Gesserit class in fact); plus a new race: the Mekan (an android) with its own racial class. Then, a few skills for sci-fi play. The 8 pages freebie is for downlad on my website: heroes-witchery/downloads (scroll down to the page's bottom: #8).

When I first created FH&W, I also planned to do a supplement called Future H&W. I later abandoned the idea. But I have already enough material for a 60 pages supplement. So, now I am thinking: why not? Why should this have to be 130 pages long? I can do a small supplement just 60 pages long. This would be mostly new races, new classes, new equipment, and spells for a magitech-wizard. And this would be focused mostly on science-fantasy, not hard science-fiction. I even have all the stock-art necessary!

In any case, this not for soon. First is the Dark Albion and Blasphemous Bestiary on the anvil...

The sci-fantasy is one of the best touches of FH&W; but what's particularly good about is how modular it is; you can keep all the sci-fantasy out and have a totally vanilla fantasy game if you want.

Quote from: RPGPundit;821466The sci-fantasy is one of the best touches of FH&W; but what's particularly good about is how modular it is; you can keep all the sci-fantasy out and have a totally vanilla fantasy game if you want.

Yeah, I see it as being a bit like how Deadlands includes all that Steampunk and horror and fantasy and alt-history stuff: you can have all of that at once if you want a very gonzo setting, or if you want to focus in on a specific flavour (or get rid of the weird crap and play a straight Western game) you can. It's always easier to take a product that gives you more than what you want and trim back the bits you don't need than it is to take a product which doesn't quite extend in the directions you want it to and have to make up the shortfall.

I picked up the HB for a song with double (maybe triple) discounts from Lulu 2 Christmases ago.  It is really fantastic!  I think full price is even a fair value for the book.  Its really great.

Quote from: Teazia;821656I picked up the HB for a song with double (maybe triple) discounts from Lulu 2 Christmases ago.  It is really fantastic!  I think full price is even a fair value for the book.  Its really great.

It does. I hope that Dark Albion will end up looking even more impressive!

Quote from: RPGPundit;821948It does. I hope that Dark Albion will end up looking even more impressive!

I think it will look better than FH&W, but I can tell you it's a lot of work. I am working on it right now, and it's not just filling two columns per page and adding a pic sometimes...

Turanil, I really love your game. I suppose you get this question a lot, but which monster manual would you use with a minimal conversion? Official D&D or OSR.

Thanks for the kind words!

I use my 2e Monster Manual. The monster book of Castles & Crusades also works very well. Adventure Dark & Deep also has a monster book that can fit.

In all cases, to make easy conversions on the fly, I just do this:

1) BtH = HD (for aggressive creatures), or half HD (for non-combatant creatures).

2) Save = 18 minus HD. (e.g. 14 for a 4 HD creature), adding a +2 or +4 bonus to what makes sense (e.g. a spellcasting creature gets +2 to Int-Wis-Cha saves).

Other than that, a FH&W monster book is scheduled (with most of the text and art done, but not the layout), but all of this takes so much time, that you will have to wait several months more...

Quote from: Turanil;821956I think it will look better than FH&W, but I can tell you it's a lot of work. I am working on it right now, and it's not just filling two columns per page and adding a pic sometimes...

I bet! Keep up the good work!

I actually have run a few games of this, I have the Hardback of it.  It's actually not bad, even has like futuristic Pulp classes in it as Optional stuff.  The only thing it was missing was Monsters, I just used the S&W Monstrosities book for it and it worked fine, you can use old AD&D MM if you like as well.  Its worth getting and playing, we have fun with it.  I have one player who loves playing the Psychic Class (from the Weird Tales Section).

Today, two new freebies are proposed for download (here) (http://www.dcrouzet.net/heroes-witchery/?page_id=83)

1) An awesome character sheet for Microsoft Excel, generously offered to the community by Arne Holzwarth. Thanks a lot! After all, we have entered the digital age, hence gifts such as these are more than welcome.  :)

2) A 20 pages document with 11 fantasy character classes: Agent of the Gods (i.e. cleric),  Alchemist, Cavalier, Draconic Sorcerer, Magic-using Bard (i.e. 2e bard), Shadow-Dancer, Swan-Maiden, True-Paladin, Warmage, Warrior-Monk, and Wizard of High Arcana (based on 1e DL wizards of high sorcery).
Those who have read FH&W know that most of the classes often strongly depart from the originals. For example, the bard and ranger don't get spells, and the paladin is but a set of holy powers awarded to a knight who deserves them. As such, the original classes (including some from 3e) have been converted so they look much closer to their earlier incarnations. But this is nonetheless with a FH&W twist! (For example: the 1e ranger turned into the Swan-Maiden.)

Just bought a copy from Amazon, and perusing the free PDF.  Wow!  That is some very nice work!

I did want to ask:  Will the hardback be available from Amazon at some point, or is that going to continue to be through Lulu only?

Quote from: DMK;824368Just bought a copy from Amazon, and perusing the free PDF.  Wow!  That is some very nice work!

I did want to ask:  Will the hardback be available from Amazon at some point, or is that going to continue to be through Lulu only?

Thanks!

To sell on Amazon, I must have an ISBN number. For some reason I cannot fathom, neither Createspace (i.e. Amazon's pod service) nor Lulu will allow hardbacks with an ISBN. Henceforth, hardbacks can only be purchased on Lulu (Createspace don't do hardbacks*).


(* maybe this changed lately, I will know when I release Dark Albion.)

Ah, gotcha!  Not a big deal, I'll likely order a hardback through Lulu at some point soon then.  

Reading through the free PDF is a blast, by the way.  I'm really digging the "weird fantasy" vibe...definitely looking forward to playing this.

Dom, I think that (when you are done with Dark Albion of course) your best bet for going on with FH&W would be to release products that go with that sci-fantasy weird-fantasy vibe, as it is really one of the most appealing and unique parts of your game compared to other OSR games.

You are probably right. The Blasphemous Bestiary that I will complete after Dark Albion, will include a lot of robots and sci-fi monsters (so it's already going in that direction). Then, I have a plan (and already some texts and illustrations) for a swords-and-planets campaign setting. There is also the possibility of a 60-80 pages supplement to FH&W expanding material into science-fantasy and science-fiction.

Quote from: Turanil;824827You are probably right. The Blasphemous Bestiary that I will complete after Dark Albion, will include a lot of robots and sci-fi monsters (so it's already going in that direction). Then, I have a plan (and already some texts and illustrations) for a swords-and-planets campaign setting. There is also the possibility of a 60-80 pages supplement to FH&W expanding material into science-fantasy and science-fiction.

Great stuff.  You also may want to consider doing a Kickstarter for it.  I wouldn't be surprised if you could get it funded with relative ease, not just from FH&W fans, but if it was basically compatible as an OSR product.  Your art and production values are certainly up to the quality level.

I recently picked this up, and I have to say that I'm pretty damn happy.

If it ditched the idea of spell preparation for spontaneous casting, and used a mana point system, this would be damn close to my dream version of D&D.  At least it doesn't add lots of rules to make it difficult to jettison preparation for spontaneous casting.

I also really like the Moldvay Basic homage image on the bottom of page one.  The original image of the girl dreaming of the sorceress and the guy dreaming of the barbarian is etched into my mind.  As for the new version, all I can say is GUILTY as charged!  :)