Familiar names when I least expect it ...and that "WAR" thing

Koltar · August 25, 2007, 08:45:48 PM

You're close to half-right.

The way everyone talks most of this small press or "Indie Press" stuff is done with pdfs.
Which I'm not really into - ever since I got this new computer I have not had this best of luck making its pdf thingie do things the way my old comuter did.

SO, .... it was an unerxpected surprise seeing physical books I could actually browse at - and on the same shelf as the GURPS books too!!

Tho reading that comment in the back of ELFS confirmed stuff about Edwards for me. AND the comment from Mathew - who has never heard about the "Great War " or debate about all of this stuff.

- Ed C.

TheShadow · August 25, 2007, 08:46:27 PM

Quote from: J Arcaneso you're saying that everyone in Australia is a bitter old cunt who prints nothing but pathetic screeds to make up for their failure at their chosen career?

Nah, not everyone prints stuff. When we fail at our chosen career we usually just go on the piss or watch the football. Or both.

The Yann Waters · August 25, 2007, 08:50:20 PM

Quote from: KoltarThe way everyone talks most of this small press or "Indie Press" stuff is done with pdfs.

Over here in Finland, almost all of the printed RPGs are translated indie games: Primetime Adventures was the latest one of those.

dar · August 25, 2007, 09:36:58 PM

Quote from: The_ShadowMan, you uptight midwestern type guys should come to Australia. A few beers and a lot of piss-taking later, you'll be giving as good as you get and loving it. Insulting each other is the national sport.

Sounds like where I work. I work with a bunch of hicks and rednecks. Insulting each other is a matter of pride. (note I just insulted them here, they'll be looking to get even if they can ever figure out this intarweb thang and read it) I can live with 'taking the piss'.

Elfs is something else.

dar · August 25, 2007, 10:02:52 PM

Something interesting. I can't seem to find Elfs for sale in PDF, only the printed hardcopy. WTF? The review talks about a PDF.

droog · August 25, 2007, 11:01:54 PM

Elfs used to be available in PDF but is now only available as a book. I think Ron has gone for this publishing model in general, as only Trollbabe is available as a PDF any more.

Personally, the only reason I haven't yet got Elfs is that I'm not the target audience, which is the same reason I don't find KotDT or Hackmaster very funny. I think you need to have played lots of old-school dungeoneering games and have a sense of humour about it.

flyingmice · August 25, 2007, 11:55:32 PM

Ed:

Bill is primarily a print publisher. He also has pdfs, but most of his sales are in print. I am primarily a pdf publisher, though one of my books is in distro (Cold Space, though GMSkarka's distribution company) and most of them are available via POD print - which is excellent quality paperback - fully equivalent to the GURPS supplement books I bought at GenCon, full color laminated cover with greyscale interiors. Johnny Wannabe has at least one game in print - Shebang, which I had with me at GenCon along with my print books.

-clash

Thanatos02 · August 26, 2007, 12:46:23 AM

Quote from: J ArcaneSounds like Costikyan's Violence.

Which I enjoyed.

It plays surprisingly well and characters are easy to make.

I also enjoyed the good-natured humor.

J Arcane · August 26, 2007, 01:42:34 AM

Quote from: Thanatos02Which I enjoyed.

It plays surprisingly well and characters are easy to make.

I also enjoyed the good-natured humor.

"Good-natured"?

Violence is basically Costikyan's overly wordy version of "Screw you guys, I'm out of here". A long-winded, asinine diatribe that seeks only to attack combined with a bit of bridge-burning.

The ultimate message of the whole book is "You're all a bunch of anti-social losers".

There's nothing "good-natured" about it, it's Greg's last parting shot as he leaves the hobby completely to make shitty cellphone games, and for the capper, he then goes off to create the video game version of the Forge.

Hence the comparison to Ron Edwards and this "Elfs", a comparison made even more apt by Ron's responses to that stupid review.

jrients · August 26, 2007, 03:04:38 AM

I'm not the list bit offended by Elfs, even though it looks pretty clearly like a swipe at the kind of game I run all the time.

Zachary The First · August 26, 2007, 07:43:56 AM

Quote from: jrientsI'm not the list bit offended by Elfs, even though it looks pretty clearly like a swipe at the kind of game I run all the time.

I played a demo at a con a year or so ago, and it wasn't bad. Average all around, but I didn't feel insulted in playing it, anyhow.

James J Skach · August 26, 2007, 10:21:20 AM

You guys can argue about AP all you like, but you are aware that the author of the game (not the reviewer) says its is a:

Quote from: Ron EdwardsDead-on and not-especially-nice satire of all those familiar fantasy RPG motifs

So, you know, you shouldn't be surprised if people are...ummm...shall we say...not averse to being offended?

James J Skach · August 26, 2007, 10:34:47 AM

Quote from: JongWKThe author's comments after the review are enough to turn me away from the game.

For those wishing to know, they include:

Quote from: Ron Edwards2) Warning: the text of Elfs is *not nice* regarding Dungeons & Dragons and various behaviors that are occasionally associated with its play. The game was intentionally written as brutal satire of these things, and so any complaints about it ("Waaa! Not all D&D is bad!") are ... well, not real relevant.

I wonder where people get the idea that GNS/TBM is anti-D&D?

Oh, wait, I'm complaining. And the only way to complain is to cry. I'm sorry I forgot the "Waaa!" at the beginning of the post. My bad...

Seanchai · August 26, 2007, 11:01:22 AM

Quote from: walkerpOkay, fair enough. And the point of your OP was what?

He wanted, with just one post, to tear down the very foundations of your world. He was trying to create a viral message that would transcend the RPGSite War and bring the battlefront out into a wider sphere: the whole damn Internet. In his original post, Koltar was forging a ram which he would then wield to shatter the gates of the Forge and let the plebians into that pristine RPG garden...

I thought it was pretty clear, but to each his own, I suppose.

Seanchai

The Yann Waters · August 26, 2007, 11:02:00 AM

You know, there are people out there who would call even Munchkin an offensive insult against D&D players everywhere... because they are certainly not munchkins and resent the implication that anyone sharing their game might be, either.